Looks like your free online gaming ain't gonna be so "free" anymore  

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/111/1115554p1.html

On the flip side, looks like the 360 LIVE price is going up  

I think that's talking about something similar to the EA online pass for software, where to play online, you need to enter a one time use code from the manual, or pay 10 bucks.  It's basically something publishers are trying to edge out used game sales.  I can't say that I blame them, and at least they're offering the option for people who do buy used to play online-although it may defeat the purpose of buying used in the first place.  

Anyone getting Hulu working their PS3?   I know you need to use a VPN proxy to spoof an American address.  

I played a bit with Tversity & Youtube yesterday as Youtube has lots of movies, but the quality was unacceptable (many pauses during playback).   To get Hulu going you need Tversity Pro.

Sorry, I'm not an online gamer....

I just torrent everything I need TV wise so it's no big deal.

I found this great TV Torrent site:

http://www.TVTorrents.com

I can download full episodes of popular shows in about 3 minutes.  

Quoted from Chris Bardon

I think that's talking about something similar to the EA online pass for software, where to play online, you need to enter a one time use code from the manual, or pay 10 bucks.  It's basically something publishers are trying to edge out used game sales.  I can't say that I blame them, and at least they're offering the option for people who do buy used to play online-although it may defeat the purpose of buying used in the first place.  

The FAN590's gaming show was talking about that this weekend when they were interviewing the developers who basically came out and said that buying used was 'stealing' from the developers ...

Quoted from SquidVicious

The FAN590's gaming show was talking about that this weekend when they were interviewing the developers who basically came out and said that buying used was 'stealing' from the developers ...

Ok that's a bold statement, stealing, how do they figure?

Once they game is sold it's no longer their property, it's the owners property and he can choose to light it on fire just as much as he can choose to sell it when he is tired of it.  

I get the game industry is losing money to the used game market, but it's not like their frikin starving or something

Quoted from Vengeance

I get the game industry is losing money to the used game market, but it's not like their frikin starving or something

Reminds me of this....

The only "stealing" I see going on when buying a used game (or anything for that matter), is when the Government double-dips on the taxes.  

Quoted from machine.slave

The only "stealing" I see going on when buying a used game (or anything for that matter), is when the Government double-dips on the taxes.  

Yea I'm about to get bent over on taxes on a Truck I'm buying, some nice double dipping going on there, pay taxes when bought from a dealership and then you get to pay taxes again on the same item when sold privately, AWESOME!

Buying used isn't stealing at all. If I buy a house used, am I stealing from the builders of the house?

Quoted Text

The FAN590's gaming show was talking about that this weekend when they were interviewing the developers who basically came out and said that buying used was 'stealing' from the developers

Saying that you're stealing from the developer is a little harsh, but I can definitely understand where they're coming from.  That's why I don't really mind the whole "online pass" idea, and the other types of one time use codes (like the Mass Effect 2 Cerberus Network) that people are starting to put into their games.  You can still play the game if you buy used, but you'll be getting more out of it with a brand new copy (or by giving the developer something in return).  The alternative would have been getting a share of the profits from Gamestop, which was never going to happen.  

Honestly, I'd prefer if they just went all digital.  Steam is a great example of how this kind of model can work, especially since things regularly get discounted.  If Xbox/ps3 games were digital only starting at 50 bucks (instead of 60), and then, most importantly, dropping in price after a while, I think you'd see things change for the better.  Come up with a good rental/subscription plan, and you've got something even better.  

Quoted from jonny_eh

Buying used isn't stealing at all. If I buy a house used, am I stealing from the builders of the house?

Apparently, according to the game industry you are   

Quoted from Vengeance

Yea I'm about to get bent over on taxes on a Truck I'm buying, some nice double dipping going on there, pay taxes when bought from a dealership and then you get to pay taxes again on the same item when sold privately, AWESOME!

Be careful.  I went through that when I bought a car from a friend of mine.. he gave me a hell of a deal, and the government didn't feel I paid enough taxes on the car so they billed me for the remainder using their red book value.  Bitches.  Ended up paying something like $400 in taxes on a car I only paid $1k for.

Quoted from machine.slave

Be careful.  I went through that when I bought a car from a friend of mine.. he gave me a hell of a deal, and the government didn't feel I paid enough taxes on the car so they billed me for the remainder using their red book value.  Bitches.  Ended up paying something like $400 in taxes on a car I only paid $1k for.

Yea I'm fully aware of that, thankfully the truck is from 1988 so even the red book value will be nice and low.  

Quoted from Vengeance

Ok that's a bold statement, stealing, how do they figure?

Once they game is sold it's no longer their property, it's the owners property and he can choose to light it on fire just as much as he can choose to sell it when he is tired of it.  

I get the game industry is losing money to the used game market, but it's not like their frikin starving or something

Basically they expect to get paid anytime someone new experiences their game I guess ... don't shot me I'm just the messanger ... I think the interview is online somewhere.

So how do they account for places like Blockbuster or Gamefly renting out games? Several people will "experience" their product if it gets rented out and the only return they get is from the initial sale of the game, the rest of the revenue from that game goes to the rental company.

Quoted from necro_nemesis

So how do they account for places like Blockbuster or Gamefly renting out games? Several people will "experience" their product if it gets rented out and the only return they get is from the initial sale of the game, the rest of the revenue from that game goes to the rental company.

They don't like it either. They want everyone to pay $69+tax to play their stupid game.

Quoted from jonny_eh

They don't like it either. They want everyone to pay $69+tax to play their stupid game.

Yup that's pretty much it

It contradicts most of the business models out there (books/dvd/cars/anything for the most part ...) but that is the route they want to go and from what i understand (and since I dont game online it is all second hand) they use the pass for online sort of like a license to ensure payment.

Quoted from jonny_eh

They don't like it either. They want everyone to pay $69+tax to play their stupid game.

Yea the prices on their games is the #1 reason I never buy new anymore, I can't justify the cost.  

I've got it ingrained in me for some reason never to sell my games, my Dad always used to give me mess when I was a kid whenever I wanted to sell my games after I was done with them and that has stuck with me through adult hood so I hoard all of my console games regardless of if I plan to play them again or not.  

But the new $69.99 price tag on most new games is just to much, I can only justify it for certain titles.  The only two upcoming titles I see myself paying full retail for are Twisted Metal and Mortal Kombat.  

If they don,t want anyone reselling or renting their games, they should just create a new console that runs downloadable games that are either stored in the console or has the console burn a disc that can only be played on that individual console.

...I would give them 6 months.

Quoted from Sparky

If they don,t want anyone reselling or renting their games, they should just create a new console that runs downloadable games that are either stored in the console or has the console burn a disc that can only be played on that individual console.

...I would give them 6 months.

Or they could make their games more fun

Quoted from necro_nemesis

So how do they account for places like Blockbuster or Gamefly renting out games? Several people will "experience" their product if it gets rented out and the only return they get is from the initial sale of the game, the rest of the revenue from that game goes to the rental company.

Nintendo tried to squash renting back in the 80's.. thankfully, it didn't have wings in court.

@Sparky, that's their plan for the next-gen console.  Media-less gaming.  I'm all for it, but I ain't shelling out $70 for a download.

Hell.. look at their prices on "greatest hits" games.  $30 to download Dead Space??  No thanks... I'll go buy it for $10 at Blockbuster.  

I think they are shooting themselves in the foot and it makes them look greedy. Garth Brooks and some other artists tried to do this also on used cds and failed.  
'1993–94: In Pieces
In 1993, Garth Brooks, who had criticized music stores which sold used CDs since it led to a loss in royalty payments, persuaded Capitol Records not to ship his August 1993 album In Pieces to stores which engaged in this practice. This led to several anti-trust lawsuits against the record label and ended with Capitol shipping the CDs to the stores after all.[28]
'
I already have an issue with Xbox live.  I come from the PC market and to pay to play a game online after you already bought the game is a hard pill to take.  This user fee to play online with a used game is stupid since the developers already got paid.  This is BS and just a cash grab.  If they start to do this I might go back to PC gaming

Quoted from machine.slave

Hell.. look at their prices on "greatest hits" games.  $30 to download Dead Space??  No thanks... I'll go buy it for $10 at Blockbuster.  

This is where my economics sensitivity starts to kick in with DL'ing a game. If they make it cheap enough I will save the gas for a trip to Blockbuster, but when the math simply doesn't work than there is no way I would go the DL option. Downloading is likely the only viable method to generate any return on their intellectual property once the release version and greatest hits, gold, platinum or whatever name they give it discounted version has run it's course. Make the thing cheap and at least you get a little something rather than very few buying.

A lot of the PC games now require you to set up an online account to play even if they aren't online games. I can see this being the way they will limit the games to run on the initial installation only.

They also tried to bring back the old VHS rental pricing model with DVDs, and it didn't fly (150 bucks a copy).  

I mostly quit buying now games a couple years ago, and set up a subscription with gameaccess (which is a great Canadian gamefly-like service).  I think I pay maybe 250 bucks a year for 2 games out at once, which basically covers me for everything I want to play.  In the very rare instance that I want to go back to something, I'll pick up a used copy (since they also sell old stock at a pretty good discount for subscribers).  I don't have time to play most of the games that I want to get to the first time around though-forget going back to them more than once.  

The Xbox/PSN full game downloads are pretty ridiculous because they feel a need to keep parity with retail prices.  Sony has run a few sales/price drops on PSN though, and I've taken advantage of some of them when prices have matched or beaten retail sale prices.  The PSP Go has also been a colossal failure, if for no other reason than Sony not making it mandatory for all publishers to publish all their titles digitally (which they have every right to do).  The fact that you have no way to play probably 2/3 of the psp calalog on the download only system is really troubling, especially when it includes new high profile releases (Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep is the most recent one).  

A download only platform that followed the Steam model though-that I could definitely get behind.  

GameAccess, eh... I'll have to check them out!  Thanks for that.

Quoted from machine.slave

Looks like your free online gaming ain't gonna be so "free" anymore  

That wasn't like an announcement or anything though.  The interview just said "they were looking into it" but at the same time acknowledged that free online play was one of their major selling points and they don't want to shoot themselves in the foot by starting to charge people.

Not picking sides or anything (I like all consoles just fine).  Xbox has got way more quality online content but there's occasions where you can get the same experience for free, say Red Dead Redemption, on PS3 and not having to pay is more awesome than paying obviously.  

My 2 cents.

I'm definitely hearing what you're saying (err, typing).  I was more or less just trying to get Adam all riled up again  

Quoted from dancadera

That wasn't like an announcement or anything though.  The interview just said "they were looking into it" but at the same time acknowledged that free online play was one of their major selling points and they don't want to shoot themselves in the foot by starting to charge people.

Not picking sides or anything (I like all consoles just fine).  Xbox has got way more quality online content but there's occasions where you can get the same experience for free, say Red Dead Redemption, on PS3 and not having to pay is more awesome than paying obviously.  

My 2 cents.

In case I missed it somewhere in the thread, the xbox live price hike only applies if you're buying per month, 3 month. The yearly rate stays the same I believe.

I get how people are pissed with this take on used games but I can see the devs POV, though I totally agree there's some weird kool-aid being drank if they're using words like "stealing from them" if you buy a used game.  That type of comment does more harm then good to their position.

On the issue of ownership and comparision to DVD rentals:

A) Some of you may not realize it, but the studios get a cut out of DVD rentals from the big chains (it depends on the model use in procurement of the DVD's themselves)
B) I personally believe this is BS lawyer crap, but technically and legally speaking, you don't own a copy of that game you bought, you own a license.  There is a difference legally.

Personally, I think we're in for a fun time with the eventual majority switch to e-distribution for games/movies.  The idea of "ownership" will become a big issue in the future, much bigger than people think and I predict at some point, the goverment will get involve, as it did with the issue of "legal rights to a backup".