Objectively I would say the trade would be about even with a slight nod to TAF (for theme if nothing else).

I had both, I have Addams. You better really like the Theme and Humor of Family Guy, that was the only real draw for me. Oh, if you leave it on Factory settings, don't expect to many "Quick" games. It is fun, but not a real keeper for me.

Dave

Quoted from ALJO

On the other hand, when Stern will close there doors, which will most probably happen one day, I really think that there parts will be hard to find, there games are not as appreciated as Williams, Bally games are.

*sigh*  it's so frustrating to hear this day in and day out.  If Stern machines are so bad, then why is it they're the only ones still making machines?  Like them or not, at least they're keeping the business alive.

I just don't get all the Stern hatred.  On the flip side though, at least all the anti-stern feelings are keeping the prices low  

Quoted from machine.slave

*sigh*  it's so frustrating to hear this day in and day out.  If Stern machines are so bad, then why is it they're the only ones still making machines?  Like them or not, at least they're keeping the business alive.

I just don't get all the Stern hatred.  On the flip side though, at least all the anti-stern feelings are keeping the prices low  

For the most part, Claude is right. Williams games tend to hold their value much longer than DE/SEGA/Stern games do. It's arguable if they deserve this treatment, but it's a fact, they don't hold their value as well. But since the death of Williams, Stern has been able to snatch up their top designers, so things may have changed a bit, but the perception remains. The fact that Stern still stands and Williams is dead does not say a thing about the long term value or interest in the machines by collectors.

BTW, I don't hate Stern games. I own one. If LOTR had a Bally or Williams logo, it'd probably fetch $1k more. But then again, it would probably be working right now, and not sitting in my basement with busted flippers and magnet

"Williams games tend to hold their value much longer than DE/SEGA/Stern games do."

Before Williams closed their door, their games had a MUCH higher level of depreciation than current Sterns. Once the doors were closed, certain games started to go wwaaaaayyyyy up: MM, CV, MB, etc. Others basically held their ground or depreciated a bit: GetAway, GI, Shadow, etc. Sooooo.....

What do you think will happen if Stern closes their doors? My guess: TSPP, FG, LOTR, etc. (their "A" games) will go up. Others will hold their value, and HUO will command a premium (like it does now). Time will tell, but that's my thoughts.

Keep in mind, Williams had their "stinkers" too. Jackbot, while a good game, was produced around the time of ToM. Can you imagine if you choose a NIB Jackbot over a ToM? You would be pissed because the game lost so much value. If you had selected ToM, not so much.

Some Stern games have tanked in value: Ripley's, Nascar, etc. Others have remained pretty damn consistent: LOTR, FG, TSPP, etc. I don't think you can say Stern don't hold their value in all cases.

Duane

Quoted from machine.slave

I just don't get all the Stern hatred.  

I think you are wrong on that, and I think hate is really not the right word.
Collectors "hate" Stern because they feel they could be so much more than they are now. A collector often has a real passion for pinball and would love to see a company produce exciting new games on a regular basis. Just look at the some of the last releases from Stern, TDK, IJ4, WoF. Only Spiderman seems to have been accepted with some acclaim, even when Starburst offers WoF at $3K, there is not a mad rush to buy them.
The few operators I know "hate" Stern due to their reliabilty factor, "they need a new DMD every 15 months" is the common complaint I hear.
I fully understand that this is a business, and so does Gary Stern, he is trying to survive. I think to often people confuse "Hate" with passion.

Hopefully Stern will survive, but the current economic condition in the US will not help. Less disposable income will affect the operators which in the end means fewer new games are purchased, which makes it harder for Stern to survive.
    

Quoted from ALJO

You got me wrong Machineslave, I don't hate Sterns at all, I was just evaulating the market according to what I see. In fact I'm planning to buy stern pins in the future.

Claude.

I wasn't really attacking you,  Aljo, I was just pointing out your statement that the general consensus is: "Stern Sucks".  I know I haven't posted on here much but I've followed MAACA for a few years now, and have started getting into RGP recently as well.  It's just a shame that this anti-Stern feeling runs so deep.  Take my Starship Troopers for example.  It's actually a really fun game, but the scores on IPDB are skewed because some people have gone as far as write things like "I gave it 2 out of 10, because it's a Stern/Sega/DE -- but it's still a fun game!".  I mean, that just makes no sense to me.  Maybe I'm just missing the bigger picture..

But thanks, HP5P, what you say makes a little more sense.. that Stern is taking the easy road because the competition isn't there..  and I don't quite get some of the licenses they've chosen to run with either.  (TDK is a good game though, it just needs one hell of a software update)

Anyway, I didn't mean to take it off track here, it's just something that's been bugging me for some time.

I'd trade a TAF for a FG myself, but I prefer the FG theme.. but I'm with the guys who are saying, if you prefer a FG over TAF (or are bored with TAF), then go for it.  If you're trading for an investment, don't bother.

Quoted from HP5P

The few operators I know "hate" Stern due to their reliabilty factor, "they need a new DMD every 15 months" is the common complaint I hear.

    

That's weird..  Stern uses the same DMDs we buy from Marco, Bayarea, etc as replacements.  Stern doesn't make their own DMD!!!  So if there's a problem with DMDs it's not Stern's fault!!

Mike

So far I have two dead transistors on a Stern power board. Why they don't use better transistors is beyond me.

What I find hilarious is that most that are praising Williams today are the ones that were complaining about them pre-1999. Look at RGP. Look up any posts about P2K or any machines as stated like Jackbot. Text doesn't lie. I believe that most b**** about Stern because they are still around, period. I personally rather b**** on Williams and their half-assed way of handing out rights. As-is, it is a damn miracle that anything is being made. A real joke.

Quoted from jonny_eh

So far I have two dead transistors on a Stern power board. Why they don't use better transistors is beyond me.

You bought a routed machines. Things do break down.

Ask Workingpins about the wonderful experience he had when he bought a NIB SW:E1 while Williams was still in business. Cabinet art was scratched. Game didn't work out of the box and there was no tech support. Took him a month to isolate the problem to a ribbon cable and something else. Geoff has tons of stories about unloading NIB Williams games and having issues.

Duane

Quoted from MrMikeman

That's weird..  Stern uses the same DMDs we buy from Marco, Bayarea, etc as replacements.  Stern does make their own DMD!!!  So if there's a problem with DMDs it's not Stern's fault!!

Mike

Probably the DMD drivers more than the DMDs themselves.