if its so obvious a deposit is not refundable why the fear of stating it as such?

Quoted from donnie

if its so obvious a deposit is not refundable why the fear of stating it as such?

Because it's not as common knowledge as you might think (I really had no idea until I started googling around), AND local or special interest customs may indicate otherwise. And because when you put a deposit on a bottle, you expect to get your dime back when you return it.  SO we tend to start thinking of deposits as "refundable".  

Bottom line, a deposit paid by you on a pinball machine is your guarantee to the seller that he isn't holding the machine just for the hell of it. After all, your deposit is at stake. Any other understanding is pretty naive.

I might return someone's deposit under certain circumstances but would NEVER feel OBLIGATED to do so as there is no moral code that strictly favours purchasers.

I HOPE Judge Judy doesn't need to get involved is stuff like this, especially within our community.

I prefer to buy and sell from people I have a good feeling about. Thank goodness I will never be forced to take the word of someone who is dodgy, except for my first two machines which were purchased together from the infamous Kijiji scammer from Hamilton who we shall allow to remain anonymous. If he views this forum, he probably likes the negative attention he has received.

but the problem is the grey area - is the machine as stated in the advert? - if a buyer wants to quibble over some inconsistency in the advert then they have that right and THAT is when the nature of the deposit needs to be clear.

A buyer can pick any defect and use it as a base for complaint so the seller should be clear about the contract.

Again it all comes down to just simply state it as non refundable - however I think some sellers dont want to state it - not out of deceit - just simply they dont want to turn a buyer off.  I got no problem with clear statements and will buy with a non refundable deposit as long as their are guidlines.  

No guidlines means and if theres something wrong does NOT protect anyone especially the seller.  

BTW I bought nearly 10K worth of games from a single seller in one transaction - paid a healthy deposit with no problem - however I made clear any issues would mean he could keep his gas money and refund the rest.   He was confident in his machines.

I took all the games

no drama

but we made sure it was clear.... Im not a bad buyer just suggesting clarity is needed in ALL areas.

Quoted from wbradley

Bottom line, a deposit paid by you on a pinball machine is your guarantee to the seller that he isn't holding the machine just for the hell of it. After all, your deposit is at stake. Any other understanding is pretty naive.

I might return someone's deposit under certain circumstances but would NEVER feel OBLIGATED to do so as there is no moral code that strictly favours purchasers.

I HOPE Judge Judy doesn't need to get involved is stuff like this, especially within our community.

I prefer to buy and sell from people I have a good feeling about. Thank goodness I will never be forced to take the word of someone who is dodgy, except for my first two machines which were purchased together from the infamous Kijiji scammer from Hamilton who we shall allow to remain anonymous. If he views this forum, he probably likes the negative attention he has received.

Yes , it ' s best to buy from someone you know and can trust . In that case , the deposit becomes , to my opinion , a way for the game to be yours without expecting the deposit to be refound . There ' s some exceptions tho , like when you want a rare game no matter what and the seller specify in what state it is .

It was the case for my centaur , in Glensfall , NY . But for my farfalla , coming from Dallas and paid in full before being shipped , the seller told me it was 100% fonctionnal and it ' s not . I t ' s a drag , but i have it and won ' t complaint . Résumé ; What the heck , it ' s a pinball i ' m buying , not a Lambo ...   

Quoted from donnie

but the problem is the grey area - is the machine as stated in the advert? -

But upon further investigation, it seems to me that the onus is on the BUYER to determine the condition of the goods and contract BEFORE making the deposit and sealing the deal (UNLESS it's a condition of the deposit that inspection and satisfaction are at the buyer's discretion - which DOES happen, but it's not assumed).  

In the absence of any declaration, the law appears to me to rest on the seller's side on this one I beleive.  Unless you can prove that the seller intentionally mislead you, or there is a gross disparity in description vs. delivery condition, or the seller is late, or in some other way makes you suffer a loss, then it appears (looking at other precidents) that the Buyer is SOL.  They have to take delivery and pay the full price, or back out and risk losing the deposit as compensation.

If the Buyer feels so strongly that what they bargained for is not what they are getting, they can reason with the seller, but ultimately the seller doesn't have to return the deposit.  Only if a judge or arbitrator (if the parties agree to binding arbitration) compels them to.

The other way to back out of a pinball deal is to make a stink.  Threaten to harm the reputation of the seller.  "If you don't give me my deposit back I'll tell everyone what a schmuck you really are and you won't make any more sales in my community."  This could backfire, but I'll bet its happened more than once in our community. Hmmm...

Quoted from websherpa

But upon further investigation, it seems to me that the onus is on the BUYER to determine the condition of the goods and contract BEFORE making the deposit and sealing the deal (UNLESS it's a condition of the deposit that inspection and satisfaction are at the buyer's discretion - which DOES happen, but it's not assumed).  

So then , before paying a deposit on the game without being able to check it on location , ask for lots of pictures . Also , a youtube clip showing the pin working  details could be a good compromise ...

As the saying goes, "Caveat emptor". - buyer beware

Or "Look BEFORE you leap."

Quoted from wbradley

As the saying goes, "Caveat emptor". - buyer beware

kæ.viː.ˈɑːt ˌɛmp.tɒr

Its latin and commonly quoted by the legal profession. It means dont let people f*** you!