There, subject says it all.

Want to hear from people who have / had both.

TwilightZone was telling me a while ago about how he thinks LOTR is a better game than TZ. He can speak for himself though.

I don't own a TZ, so I cannot add to this conversation.

Cripes, I have both and cann't make that decision. Both are top 5 of all time. Both have great rules, excellent theme integration. I guess one could give a higher node to LOTR as it is deeper, but TZ is just as much fun.

I really couldn't sell either. I love both. LOTR and TZ are my two favorite games. That said, LOTR gets alot more play, but I've owned TZ for 10 years and it's never leaving.

Personally I would look at selling something else if you are considering getting a LOTR. While TZs come up for sale, often they are beat. Hard to find a nice one.

Duane

Are you still playing your TZ Phil, THAT is the question...

Games that sits unplayed deserves to be sold in favor of a game you would like to own, especially if that game (LOTR) is considered as good...

DO IT  

Moi j'irais pour TZ pour tous ce que vous savez,Lotr est une tres belle et bonne game,un peu comme TZ,on peux essayer de choisir nos modes, pas de placottage avec les video modes,une belle finale,la musique de Lotr: désolé mais me calissait un down.Coté challenge,ça pas pris trop de temps que je savais exactement tous les meilleures shot a faire avec cette game,elle est le fun mais c'est pas aussi stratégique que Twilight zone Coté beauté, finition,recherche: Twilight zone                                                            Pis quand on lache une stern pour une Bally,y'a une couple de bruits qu'on entend plus sur les flipper  La question a été posé,c'est mon opinion pis je la partage

Y'a autre chose,quand j'ai un chum qui vient pis qu'y est pas trop connaisseur de machine a boules,j'ai plus de misere a dire ce qu'il faut faire avec TZ que j'en avais pour LOTR,J'crois que ça veux tout dire.Malgres tout c'est une tres belle game,bin l'fun mais y'a pas encore une Stern qui a été un trophé pour moi comme Twilight zone

Quoted from TwilightZone

Cripes, I have both and cann't make that decision. Both are top 5 of all time. Both have great rules, excellent theme integration. I guess one could give a higher node to LOTR as it is deeper, but TZ is just as much fun.

I really couldn't sell either. I love both. LOTR and TZ are my two favorite games. That said, LOTR gets alot more play, but I've owned TZ for 10 years and it's never leaving.

Personally I would look at selling something else if you are considering getting a LOTR. While TZs come up for sale, often they are beat. Hard to find a nice one.

Duane

LOTR might be deeper, but I found it incredibly easy to understand, this is a huge bonus IMO. Deep shouldn't mean confusing, like TZ. I also think the theme is better, it's a more coherent story. TZ is a random collection of bits from various episodes. LOTR on the other hand, has the original actors from the movies, and music, and tells a story. I can't comment on TZ's gameplay since I haven't played it enough, but I can say that LOTR's gameplay is awesome. There's so many things to do, you're always accomplishing something, yet some strategy can really pay off (e.g. start Gollum multi-ball before one of the other multiballs). The sound package too is pretty exciting, that game can go LOUD, especially during multiball!

I also have both games, and like Duane, they will be life-time keepers...

Both games are awesome and choosing the "best" is nearly impossible.

TZ is big, bright, and colorful with great a ruleset and amazing toys
(powerball, magnets, gumball,  etc... )
It also has a very definite edge on construction quality and reliability.
(... Bally is WAY more robust than Stern... )

LOTR, has by far the most "cohesive" gameplay and ruleset
where you actually "play through" the movies.
(ie. watching the movies will actually make you a better player !  )

And unlike TZ, the game is fairly easy to understand and play
(even by novice players. ).

The PF is beautiful, but the art on the entire machine is pixelated
which doesn't look nearly as "crisp" as the TZ.

But to answer the original question of which one to choose,
I'd say LOTR by a hair over TZ.

Gee, what a "horrible" choice to have to make !  

Steph

Quoted from Mrhide

There, subject says it all.

Want to hear from people who have / had both.

Quit obsessing. Just buy them both.

Quoted from Steph

And unlike TZ, the game is fairly easy to understand and play
(even by novice players. ).

That is very true. Also the newer theme is a big hit with guests who immediately are drawn to it. Not as much as CV, but that's another story.

Quoted from Steph

The PF is beautiful, but the art on the entire machine is pixelated
which doesn't look nearly as "crisp" as the TZ.

I really don't find the pixelation an issue. The cabinet, for example, looks amazing from say a foot away. Also, one side has the good guys and the other the bad...right? I recall one side is blue and the other red. And the art is very striking on LOTR.

Quoted from Steph

But to answer the original question of which one to choose,
I'd say LOTR by a hair over TZ.

Gee, what a "horrible" choice to have to make !  

After thinking about it a bit, I have to agree w/ Steph. LOTR by a hair. And what a horrible decision to make.

Good luck!
Duane

It's the same pic both sides of the cabinet, just in different colours. It's a picture of the elves before the big fight at the start of FOTR. The sides of the backbox have different pics though, one is Barad-dur, the other is Orthanc, i.e. the two towers.

Quoted from jonny_eh

It's the same pic both sides of the cabinet, just in different colours. It's a picture of the elves before the big fight at the start of FOTR. The sides of the backbox have different pics though, one is Barad-dur, the other is Orthanc, i.e. the two towers.

This post is exactly why I've never been drawn to LOTR.  I've never seen the movies - the theme has never interested me.   That said, the game looks awesome, and I gotta trust the assessments and we have nieces that love the series - which could them interested in pinball.   I'd like  LOTR in the house at some point in time, but Jen dislikes the theme more than me.

Dude, you've never seen LOTR? I wasn't a fan either until I saw it. It's a gorgeous series of films. Watch it just for the cinematography, music, and special effects alone. Never mind the great acting and plot! Don't even consider the pin unless you've seen the film, the pin is definitely a creation by fans of the movies. Oh, and watch the theatrical versions, the extended cuts are just for hardcore fans and would be too long for a good first viewing.

The making of documentaries that come with the extended cuts are amazing too. It's mind boggling to imagine the work that went into these movies.

Quoted from TwilightZone

That is very true. Also the newer theme is a big hit with guests who immediately are drawn to it. Not as much as CV, but that's another story.

Of course, it's a CV.

Quoted from TwilightZone

I really don't find the pixelation an issue.

Time to get your prescription checked.

Quoted from TwilightZone

After thinking about it a bit, I have to agree w/ Steph. LOTR by a hair. And what a horrible decision to make.

When are you changing your nickname?

Ya, LOTR's side art is butt ugly, all thanks to Stern's cheap a** printing process. I'd rather put my beat to hell T2 at the end of my row of pins.

Quoted from jonny_eh

It's a gorgeous series of films. Watch it just for the cinematography, music, and special effects alone.

Indeed...  

It's the only films my wife and I have watched more than once.
The 3hr viewing just seems to fly by.

Incredible movies...

Quoted Text

The making of documentaries that come with the extended cuts are amazing too. It's mind boggling to imagine the work that went into these movies.

That's an understatement....

I was floored when they said they planted vegetation 2 years before filming started
so that the "growth" on the vegetation in The Shire looked more authentic...

Not to mention the entire Kingdom of Rivendale (?) which was built from scratch
on rock formation in the middled of Nowhere in NZ, and had to be completely removed
after shooting was done, to restore the site to it's original state.

And then there's the tens of thousands of armors and weapons and swoards they hand-made
for all the fighting scenes.  

Mind-boggling indeed...

I'll think I'm due for another viewing...



Steph

Steph mentioned the armor, but didn't mention that they had one guy, working full time for 3 years, just making chain mail armor by hand. Wow. Apparently, chain mail manufacturing hasn't progressed since medieval times!

Quoted from jonny_eh

Steph mentioned the armor, but didn't mention that they had one guy, working full time for 3 years, just making chain mail armor by hand. Wow. Apparently, chain mail manufacturing hasn't progressed since medieval times!

Or there just isn't enough demand for it to figure out a way to mass produce the stuff.  I don't know about you, but I can't think of a single situation where I've gone "Yea I could use a suit of chain mail right about now"

actually, it's FAKE chain mail he made. not the real thing ( which is used by all butchers and all "extreme" shark divers worldwide)

Quoted from Mrhide

actually, it's FAKE chain mail he made. not the real thing ( which is used by all butchers and all "extreme" shark divers worldwide)

Fooled me

I also have not seen the movies, even though I own the first two movies in boxed sets. Offers anyone?

Regarding the pins, tough choice. Upto now I have enjoyed playing LOTR, but TZ is a fine pin also. Tough choice, so I say: "Buy both !!"

This is a very tough choice here...  Both very deep, require strategy in order to hit high scores, the ball times may be a little longer on the LOTR but it's the kind of game that you can play for a long time and still end up with a low score.
I would not sell your TZ to buy a LOTR and vice versa, I would not sell my LOTR to buy the TZ.  They are both awesome games worthy of top 5 ranking IMHO.  Try to find a way to purchase it by selling another of your games.
The ruleset on LOTR, although deeper than MM, follows the same philosophy:  easy for the newbie to understand and ultra-deep for home ownership by a pinball collector/player.  These are the hallmarks of a highly rated game.
Read up on the published rulesets of LOTR and you'll realize what a masterpiece it is and attention to detail that Keith Johnson put into this game.  Attach it to a standard George Gomez playfield (always fun) and you have a winner...  It should also complement your other older classic games that have short ball times.

Now that I've sold TZ to buy LOTR and get some play time on LOTR,  let's give a "first impressions review":


LOTR is *the exact* same thing as AFM ! it's multiball after multiball and you need to "make the shots" to finish the modes and once you've did it all, you move to ROTU.

I feel I'll get to valinor waaay before my first ROTU.

Don't get me wrong, I love LOTR, it's beautifull, fun, fast, a blast, I love the theme and it's a nice change from TZ but the long shots are easy and repetitive.

For that, Not a chance that LOTR will live 7 years in my basement like TZ did.
My wife will probably love it though...(once I leave it alone so she can get some actual game time!) so for that, it will last a while



another review will come once I get to Valinor...in a month or two

I think you are way off on that one Phil, I don't see any similarties at all.  

Yes they both have allot of multiballs but the similarities end there, you are barely scratching the depth involved in LOTR that doesn't exist in AFM.

Also I belive the requirments for ROTU are way less then that of Valinor so if you make Valinor before ROTU there is something wrong in the way your machine is setup because it must be setup too easy.  

Examples:

AFM has 4 multiballs, LOTR has 4 multiballs, fine.  AFM multiballs are shoot the lit shots, and in one ocasion get a super jackpot.  LOTR has 3 diffrent types of multiballs all diffrent from each other.  Yes like anything they all come down to lit shots, but FOTR is an alternating shot multiball between the Balrog and the ramp to make it tothe super jackpot, simple enough.  TTT multiball, ysed everything is lit, but there is more to in then just shooting the lit shots.  The amount of balls in play determines your overall jackpot value and the major diffrence, making all 7 shots in quick sucsession will add to your overall jackpot value.  I don't know the exact point values but lets say Jackpot 1 is worth 100,000 points, if you collect up to jackpot 7, your new base value for jackpot 1 woiuld now be 700,000 points.  So the ability to greater effect your overall point value is quite interesting.  RTOK also another interesting multiball in that yes there are only 4 shots lit but if you can shoot each shot in order, so 1,2,3,4 the values on the jackpot cahnge to 2,3,4,5 then 3,4,5,6 and so on.  It adds an extra layer to the multiball.

Then take into account that you are going to want to stack something with the multiball, a Gift from the elf or possibly athe golem multiball, or hold off on the Golem multiball till after as it can act as a restart to the multiball that just ended, something impossible in AFM

Now if you compare the mini wizard modes, AFM has Attack mars, which really is quite boring in that it's a shot to the saucer that feeds the left flipper that you shoot over and over again.  While LOTR has 3 mini wizard modes in TABA, DTR, and Super Ring Frenzy multiball.  All way more fun and interesting then AFM.  

Other diffrences are that LOTR has modes, AFM doesn't.  I'm sure people will argue that the layout is similar but I don't find that it is.  The shots are all pretty liniar in AFM which the shots in LOTR are varied with 2 diverters, plus the POTD.  

Again I just don't see the similarities between AFM and LOTR.  

Good luck making it to Valinor, I haven't been there, been really close but haven't made it there.  With my limited time on AFM I've been one shot away from ROTU (Just needed to start it, had it lit but missed the shot to the scoop) while in the 3 years I've owned and played a ton of LOTR I haven't been one shot away from Valinor.  

Ahem, LOTR has 5 multiballs. FOTR, TTT, ROTK, Gollum, and Ring Multiball.

Wait a sec, Super Ring Frenzy Multiball? What's that? That would make it 6! (seriously, how do you get that?)

A few months in, and I'm still learning new things!

Quoted Text

Then take into account that you are going to want to stack something with the multiball, a Gift from the elf or possibly athe golem multiball, or hold off on the Golem multiball till after as it can act as a restart to the multiball that just ended, something impossible in AFM

Martian multiball is there for the exact same purpose.

Yeah afm doesn't have "mode" ( well it does with the cities but hey.. that's pretty thin)  but the feel of the games are the same.  They are both "multi multiball games" where the skill needed is juggling the balls and making the shots.

Super ring frenzy is a gift of the elf.  a fun one but still the same thing.

C'mon Adam, LOTR even has victory laps!! how much more of an homage to AFM can they make it ?!



Valinor:

Requirements:
1)  Complete FOTR MB (All eight members+Gandalf Balrog Strike),
achieve Super Jackpots for an Elf Gift at minimum
*done
2)  Complete TTT MB (Survive the Assault to the end, new level every 5
jackpots achieved), achieve Super Jackpots for an Elf Gift at minimum
*done*
3)  Complete ROTK MB (All Seven Levels), achieve Super Jackpots for an
Elf Gift at minimum
*not done yet*  (or did I since I got the six elf gifts?.. not sure!)
4) Play all 6 Rings Modes (Completion not required)
*done*
5) Play There and Back Again (Completion not required)
*done*
6) Collect all six Elf Gifts (not sure if this a requirement, but I
did, with modes and MB Gifts)  (ed: yes this is a requirement)
*done*
7) Destroy the Ring (2X Required, or ONCE if you are SUPER SUPER HOT!)
*done*

ok I haven't done them ALL in the same game which is what's required to reach it but it's very doable... can't believe everyone says it's that's hard to reach!

It's a fun game

Quoted Text

can't believe everyone says it's that's hard to reach!

I wonder what his definition of 'hard to reach' is.

Super ring Frenzy multiball is not the gift from the elf, it's the final gift.  Once you complete all the Giftsof the elves, you get once more shot and it starts the final mini wizard mode from gifts of the elfs which is a super ring frenzy multiball.  

Phil, lots of games have victory laps, by saying that you could say that WCS and LOTR and similiar because they both have Victory laps.  

You don't see that list of things as daunting?  Never said it wasn't doable, I've done all of those things at diffrent times in diffrent games, but to do them all in one game is something else.  Also take into account you have to finish it all off with a DTR.  So as an example if you start all 3 multiballs but only complete 2 of them DTR is lit.  If you DTR, then you have to still complete the multiball you hadn't finished and at least start the other multiballs in order to get DTR again.  Starting RTOK multiballs becomes much harder each time, so really it can be quite difficult to throw all in one game.  

AFM on the other hand is like a cake walk.  Attack Mars, Martian Attack, Total Anihilation, 5-Way Combo, SuperJackpot, Super Jets.  The hardest of those being Attack Mars and the Super Jackpot.  also it doesn't matter in what way you achive the awards as long as you do.  

Again I just don't see the comparison at all.  The sots don't feel the same, the game play doesn't feel the same, I mean the only real argument you have is they are both fan layouts.  But that is a thin line for a argument.  

Phil,

I'm going to agree that LOTR and AFM "feel" the same. They aren't the same game at all, but the intensity of the game and the fact all shots are forward and loop back means the games do have a similar feel. I had both AFM and LOTR side by side. I found them too similar and one had to go. AFM left and LOTR stayed.

That said, saying reaching Valinor is going to be as easy as ROTU is nonsense. Reaching Valinor is challenging. It's not simply mastering the shots and being able to start a mode. As Adam has pointed out, alot has to be accomplished before you reach Valinor.

Starting and completing ROTU on AFM really isn't that difficult. I had done it many times while I owned the game and it was starting to get pretty easy by the time I sold it.

Duane

Thank you Duane ... I rest my case Adam!  

Feel the same way about AFM: too easy.

and hey, if and when I reach valinor, I'll tell you if it was easy or not .. it will take some time for sure but probably not as long as I initially thought, that's all !

I don't understand this 'too easy' thing. If you find yourself hitting the wizard mode a lot, then why not just make it a personal goal to hit it twice? Or focus on the score? You can always get a higher score, right?

T2 doesn't have a wizard mode, all it has is payback mode or the super jackpot, and both are super easy to get. Yet... the game still has my attention, possibly more so than LOTR. Maybe that'll change in the future.

Quoted from jonny_eh

T2 doesn't have a wizard mode, all it has is payback mode or the super jackpot, and both are super easy to get. Yet... the game still has my attention, possibly more so than LOTR. Maybe that'll change in the future.

How long ago did you get T2? LOTR?

I remember having a blast with T2 in the arcades... and I shopped one at home at some point and man... 10 games and I had enough.  I will still play it every time I see it but in my home, I find it way too easy and repetitive. Same thing for Getaway. And fishtales.  Same thing for any pin you can argue but hey, to each his own!!

My brother came over to check LOTR out and I let him played 5-8 games and then I played *1* ball ...did the 3 multiball + gollum + destroyed the ring ...  he was speechless... and refused to play anymore!

Phil - BAH! I still don't see the similarity at all, they don't feel like the same game at all to me.  If you haven't reached ROTU on AFM I think you are being overly optimistic on reaching valinor.  That or you got rubber bands on the outlanes   I could reach valinor too then

Jonny - I like a challenging Wizard mode because it gives me something to strive for.  Yes I can go after the high score but it's usually my high score up on my machines so beating it doesn't hold as much a sense of accomplishment as does achiving something very difficult.  Reaching Valinor is somehting I see as possible but very very difficult, which is what keeps me playing on those 45 min long games.  Just going for score gets boring, espically when you are just beating yourself.  The most fun I have when playing pinball is against other people or trying to beat other peoples scores   

Quoted from jonny_eh

I don't understand this 'too easy' thing.

It's easy Jonthan, they take the glass off.

Quoted from Mrhide

My brother came over to check LOTR out and I let him played 5-8 games and then I played *1* ball ...did the 3 multiball + gollum + destroyed the ring ...  he was speechless... and refused to play anymore!

I still like using this quote from Duane when I play against other people:

"Playing with you is NO FUN!"  

Quoted from Vengeance

If you haven't reached ROTU on AFM I think you are being overly optimistic on reaching valinor.

It took me a while when I got AFM to reach it ... and once I had, I could do it almost every other game BECAUSE I figured out the martian multiball could extend any multiball and it was bascially a never ending multiball ...

It was my wife favorite game and I still sold it before games were never ending... Ask Meat popsicle !

"Playing with you is NO FUN"

That's why I have more then one pin

Quoted from Mrhide

My brother came over to check LOTR out and I let him played 5-8 games and then I played *1* ball ...did the 3 multiball + gollum + destroyed the ring ...  he was speechless... and refused to play anymore!

If that's the way you treat your guests, I can understand why he does'nt want to play anymore. And maybe not want to come too often too?

Quoted Text

espically when you are just beating yourself.

No comment...  

Quoted from Mrhide

How long ago did you get T2? LOTR?

I remember having a blast with T2 in the arcades... and I shopped one at home at some point and man... 10 games and I had enough.  I will still play it every time I see it but in my home, I find it way too easy and repetitive. Same thing for Getaway. And fishtales.  Same thing for any pin you can argue but hey, to each his own!!

My brother came over to check LOTR out and I let him played 5-8 games and then I played *1* ball ...did the 3 multiball + gollum + destroyed the ring ...  he was speechless... and refused to play anymore!

I've had T2 longer than LOTR. I've only had LOTR fully functional for about a month. I love it! Don't get me wrong, but it's a really big time commitment! It's also low on the Awnold giant face is mumbled speech factor. In that case T2>LOTR.

It's funny that you guys are fighting over LOTR vs AFM. When in fact it should be LOTR/AFM/NF/MB vs T2, the grand daddy of the DMD fan layout game. I stand by my opinion that T2 is grossly underrated. There's a reason I was not surprised to hear it was George Gomez's all time favourite game (hence why nearly all of his games are very similar to it).

In fact, I'm enjoying my T2 so much, I'm considering doing my first 'upgrade'. I'm thinking of selling my 'player' condition game for a more 'collector' quality one.

To each their own, I find T2 way too easy.  It was fun to own, I'd own one again now that I have a larger collection, but when I owned it before I only had about 5 pins, so it was either keep T2 and get something that held my interest better.  

You can only shoot the Super Jackpot so many times before it gets boring.  That and there isn't really anything else to the game.  Start multiball, play multiball, rinse repeat.  Yes I know there is payback time and a video mode and the right chase loop, but that's it.  For a long term keepr I personaly need something more.

Right now in my collection my longest game owned is WhiteWater, I've had WH20 for about 5 years now and I don't see it going anywhere ever because I really enjoy that game.  You had a Wh20 and couldn't stand it, that the beauty of the hobby, one man's turd is another mans gem but in the end we all like playing pinball.  

When you really get down to it, there's only 2 things you can do with a pin, push the left flipper button or the right flipper button!
But you're right, to each their own! It really pays to be a fan of cheap pins though

Quoted from jonny_eh

When you really get down to it, there's only 2 things you can do with a pin, push the left flipper button or the right flipper button!
But you're right, to each their own! It really pays to be a fan of cheap pins though

Not true   

I got 4 flipper buttons on Johnny Mnemonic and Shadow  

Quoted from Vengeance

Not true   

I got 4 flipper buttons on Johnny Mnemonic and Shadow  

Shadow, of course, duh! Also, you can nudge  

Quoted from Vengeance

I still like using this quote from Duane when I play against other people:

"Playing with you is NO FUN!"  

True dat! When at Adam's play other games while he plays his never ending game on whatever he happens to be playing.

Duane

Quoted from Mrhide

It was my wife favorite game and I still sold it before games were never ending... Ask Meat popsicle !

If it was good with the exception of that you should buy MM. Not so easy to re do the multiball modes once you've stacked and started them. Your forced to use castle locks after that for multiball since trolls are not as generous as martians and do not give out the two ball multiball repeatedly.

Harder to Battle for the Kingdom than Rule the Universe as well with or without the martian attack multiball.

Quoted from TwilightZone

True dat! When at Adam's play other games while he plays his never ending game on whatever he happens to be playing.

I really like watching the video mode reruns on STTNG. It's like the game is in syndication.

Funniest one lately for me was at my place playing TSPP with my Buddy, at the end of his ball 3 and at the start of mine he had 77 million and I had 2 Million.  

Me and my buddy have a competition to see when playing each other who can reach 1000 wins first, right now the Score is 515 me to his 491.  Those are individual games   Anyway he bet me 5 points at the start of my ball 3 with my 2 million and his 77 million I wouldn't be able to beat him.  I took the bet, 3 extra balls and about 40 mins later I ended up with over 200 million, I only needed 2 more super jackpots and to finish Springfiled mystery spot in order to get the SUper Duper Mega Wizard mode or whatever it's called.  It was pretty funny   

Quoted from necro_nemesis

you should buy MM.

I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on a MM once I get my line of credit paid off   

I am waiting for Wayne's fire sale !

Quoted from Mrhide

I am waiting for Wayne's fire sale !

That'd be almost fitting since all you would be buying was Smoke  

Well I kept LOTR for less then a year so now I guess I must say:  TZ

Don't get me wrong, LOTR is great, super, wonderfull.

I just don't have the time to play 90 minute games.

Quoted from Mrhide

Well I kept LOTR for less then a year so now I guess I must say:  TZ

Don't get me wrong, LOTR is great, super, wonderfull.

I just don't have the time to play 90 minute games.

Perhaps if you opened the outlanes and kept it clean, your games wouldn't be 90 minutes lone.  

Duane

Quoted from Mrhide

Well I kept LOTR for less then a year so now I guess I must say:  TZ

Don't get me wrong, LOTR is great, super, wonderfull.

I just don't have the time to play 90 minute games.

So what's easier, RTU or valinor,

Just a note I ruled the Universe yesterday on AFM during the TOPL playoffs and I don't even own the game I still haven't made Valinor

I now own both TZ and LOTR. Give me a little while to figure out which I prefer. I'm leaning towards LOTR, due to it having a better integrated theme, and more complexity.

Quoted from jonny_eh

I now own both TZ and LOTR. Give me a little while to figure out which I prefer. I'm leaning towards LOTR, due to it having a better integrated theme, and more complexity.

Completely different games. One is more stop and go. The other total flow. Both great. Keep them both. That's what I've done

Duane

Quoted from Vengeance

So what's easier, RTU or valinor,

Just a note I ruled the Universe yesterday on AFM during the TOPL playoffs and I don't even own the game I still haven't made Valinor

! RTU is a cake walk. Not really hard to get. I was getting it quite frequently when I owned the game -- more frequently than LITZ on TZ, for example, which also isn't too challenging. I have come to accept that I will never see the wizard modes on my LOTR or TSPP -- at least with the glass on but I still love them.

24 is during out to be the same (I don't own one, just playing one ALOT). It's not hard to see the mini wizard mode - Save the President, but the ultimate wizard mode is damn taunting. There are 24 modes to the game! Plus you have to absolutely master the three MB modes -- which alone is near impossible -- and do it all in one game.


Duane

RTU is indeed easy.
Valinor, I came close 2 or 3 times and was tempted to do it with the glass off but will decided against it

maybe I should try TSPP one of these days...

Quoted from Mrhide

RTU is indeed easy.
Valinor, I came close 2 or 3 times and was tempted to do it with the glass off but will decided against it

maybe I should try TSPP one of these days...

TSPP is way harder then LOTR.  I think valinor is a reasonable Wizard mode to achieve.  I don't think I could make it to TSPP's wizard mode.  5 super jackpots during multiball, completing springfiled mystery spot and completing alien invasion in one game is really, really hard.  then you still have to do Daredevil mania, all 5 I&S multiballs, and comic book guys secret stash which are more reosnable to complete in one game.  

I think I can comment on this subject since I have 'JOINED' the LOTR club, and I also own the other two. T2 is very simplistic but if you know me it will never leave my collection.  Having Arnolds voice just makes the game.  I also like to take a break and not worry about shooting this, then that and just enjoy pinball without all the stress/ adrenalin.  I like TZ for the multiple modes and sounds and also the stop action to collect yourself.  Playing Powerball and LITZ are very exciting and the tie-ins are great.   I just got LOTR and I am still learning the game but it will get a lot of plays.  LOTR plays easier what I mean it is easy to dig the ball with the flippers and the game times are long.  Making the ramp shots in the correct sequence is where the difficulty is.  The game also is not designed to drain as much as the TZ which is good for the novice player.  

Here are my ratings


#1 TZ The game play is smoother and has different shots that require a different approach for each one. 4 flippers, second playfield better build quality and it is more difficult since you have to battle the designed of short playtimes so more skill is involved.
#2 LOTR This is very close and I like the fast pace and long shots.  Rules are very deep but once you overcome the shots sequences it should become easier. I know I am understating this but this is how I see it.
#3 T2 Simple game but it makes up for it in the theme.  Since I am a huge terminator fan, I enjoy this game just for the attract mode and the sounds.  If game play is all that matters to you then there are better games.

My oldest son loves LOTR over TZ because he calls TZ 'cheap' for all the drains that you cannot control as easy as LOTR.

All these machines will stay in my collection for a long time.  So if you have to pick one TZ for the reasons above

funny looking back at this thread, I've since picked up another T2   

I think once you own the game you will change your mind and rank LOTR over TZ, most people do except for Phil cause he's French and they never make sense anyway   

I've picked up another BSD...  cause when you're playing a long time, you DESERVE IT!

Quoted from Mrhide

I've picked up another BSD...  cause when you're playing a long time, you DESERVE IT!

I still have mine as well   

Quoted from Vengeance

funny looking back at this thread, I've since picked up another T2   

I think once you own the game you will change your mind and rank LOTR over TZ, most people do except for Phil cause he's French and they never make sense anyway   

Ya, and I got rid of my T2. It was pretty beat up and was thinking that I'll re-buy a nicer one at a later date. Hasn't happened yet.

I still have my LOTR and never consider getting rid of it.  TZ, on the other hand, has been here twice and I don't have plans on getting one again.  

Well, owning both I  still prefer TZ over LOTR. I love them both but on most days I enjoy TZ a little more quite frankly. LOTR is certainly deeper but the longer games is not what pinball is really about (for me). If I wanted games that (could) go on for that long I would play video games instead.   Pinball is a quicker more immediate rush (again for me). I love the fact that TZ is NOT about a single story/theme (from that perspective I think I might even learn to like TSPP more than LOTR). I loved the LOTR books when I was a kid, loved the movies but it is always the same storyline (no matter how many times you read em or watch em). Oddly enough, since owning LOTR I am now less endeared to the story as it seems I am always watching it.

After owning LOTR for 8 months, I think the lack of time I have to play pinball and the difficulty (improbability or is that impossibility) to attain the Wizard Mode has diminished the appeal a little bit just enough that TZ rules by a hair or two (for me).

I can see LOTR leaving my house before TZ (although not in the too near future). Both are great games!

Tom.