So I received my very first pinball machine - my dream machine - Indiana Jones.  The deal went smoothly with jvegas in terms of purchase, shipping, etc.  After playing only 6 or so games on the machine some problems started occuring.  Drop targets would not reset, idol does not release balls properly for multiball.  

I called a local pinball wizard to come and have a look and let me see what I am dealing with.  WOW - looks to be a lot more problems than I was hoping for.  After checking all fuses, 10 of them were wrong - all were too high for what was required.  3AMP were replaced with 5AM.  8AMP replaced with 10AMP.  etc. etc.  So all the fuses were corrected.  Board has some hacks to it and is showing black where it is starting to burn.  Wires were joined with masking tape - damn.  Flipper board has had a transistor replaced but again it is the wrong one - too big for what should be there.  THe boards by the ball launch have been badly hacked - wires spliced and soldered everywhere - need to be replaced.  

Of course, I am a newbie.  Should this have been expected?  When jvegas went through the machine he told me there were no errors and as far as I know it took 6 or so plays for the errors to show.  Tech is really working with me to help reduce costs.  Hopefully all will cost me under $500 to get working properly, wired properly, proper boards, etc.

Welcome to buying a used pinball is what he told me.  Most wrong fuses he has ever had to replace in many, many years of servicing.  

One thing I must say - the playfield and translite are PERFECT as I was told.  Very dirty and some flecks of white stuff all over (when crushed they turn to powder) - it is not corosion.  I am thinking this machine may have helped traffic cocaine from Argentina when it came over

So I am not really sure what to think.  I am a little disappointed but I now own my dream machine and the playfield / translite are SWWEEEEET!  Is this a usual story for buying a machine without seeing it?  Have I done ok?  good?  bad?  Or have I just been completely naive?

I assume this one of the Gaucho Pinballs from Argentina. Sounds typical for what they have sold in the past, many stories have been posted on RGP about their pins.

All I can tell you is that it is always preferred to see a pin before buying. The things that you mention is what I check before buying. Board hacks to me are very concerning and usually cause me to walk away. Jvegas keeps buying pins that others have "repaired or restored" in good faith and it is unfortunate that these things keep happening. Anytime you buy a pin unseen, my suggestion is to try to find someone local that can vouch for it's condition if possible, even if you have to pay for his time.

One thing to remember is that errors can be easily reset by removing the batteries. It will take 25 games in general before the errors reappear.

In regards to to Idol droping balls during multiball, I had the same problem on mine. Check the switch at the bottom of the ramp, it probably needs adjustment.  

Argentina? Must be an infamous Gaucho. I was considering buying from them, now I know to avoid them.

To me, Jim seems like an honest guy, but he admits that he's not a pin mechanic. He can only tell the condition of the machine at the surface level, and you described it to be nice cosmetically, as described. He also sells the machines as fast as they come in, so he obviously doesn't have time to give them a good inspection. But if you feel cheated, that's between you and him. This is the reason why I prefer to see a machine in person before buying, but that's sometimes not possible.

Welcome to pinball! I hope you enjoy IJ! I'm jealous!

I can't say I have an issue with Jim - my own fault for not having someone more technically saavy than himself to check the machine for me.  I was more concerned with the physical condition of the playfield / translite and that is what I paid so much for, I guess.  Kinda sad to have the guy tonight tell me that he would not have paid over $3000 for what I paid $3500 + shipping for.  Oh well  

I now know exactly what everyone was telling me - see the machine or have someone who knows what they are looking for to see the machine.  Would I have still purchased it?  Perhaps yes or perhaps I could have negotiated a little bit.  Not too sure.  Can't do anything about the past.  To anyone else looking at buying their first pin I can urge them to do what I didn't do.  Just because someone sells a lot of machines or is well known in a forum community does not guarantee you anything.

End of the day - I do not consider this machine a lemon at all.  I think I paid 10-15% more than I should have.  NO BIG DEAL.  This is going to be a real nice machine soon - I can't wait!!!  

I'm new to this (1 year) - and the hardest problems to fix are cosmetics in most cases - as they take significant time & money - and you can't really get a pinball-mechanic to say touch-up a playfield or spray-paint a cabinet.   Game-specific parts aside, it sounds like you are o.k. - a few problems fixed and you're good to go.   If the cosmetics are good you're laughing.   It doesn't sound like there are that many pins available in Calgary so you might be waiting awhile to find an IJ locally for any better price.

Likely with a gaucho you are going to want to get the confidence to strip the top-side and clean wax everything.   (MrHide has photos of that).

For what it's worth, I looked in person at the first few pins and I didn't know what the "Free Play. <- dot" was all about - nor how to traverse the menus to do the tests.   If it lit-up and made noise, I was happy.   No regrets either though.

Isn't that Shadow still available in Calgary??

I apologize with you I wanted this machine but in same period Paul sold me his very mint cftbl with no error so now you have a greath IJ.It's always a big ghuest to buy when we see the picture so good luck

I'm new too and started with project pins... I learned the hard way   I paid too much for some pins (if I add parts, I didn't save any money going with project) but it's the only way you can learn if you don't have somebody to help you.

Buying without seeing or knowing it's like gambling, you can't win  jackpot all the time

I now follow this rule.  If the price is unbelievably reasonable, I will buy sight unseen and take my chances.  If the price maxes out my budget or approaches book value, then unless I know the seller I will have to see it first.  In buying and trading about 30 machines I have yet to be able to afford anything that didn't need some fixes, even when it went through other member's hands.  Pinballs are very complex, older technology that heats up, rattles, wears out and breaks down (hence one of the failings of the industry).  Why else would Clay's Pinball Repair Guides and videos be so popular.  Unless you have a reasonable budget, collectors need also to be fixers (or limit their appetite and investigate their purchases).

Even pictures can be misleading.  That all being said, disappointment is an acknowledged part of the game.  For most of us, we visualize what we'd like and most pin purchases fall below expectations. EVERYONE will always say "I wouldn't have paid that" or "I could get it for less" - but given circumstances where you get excited about a purchase, it's easy for any one of us to put the blinders on, and too easy for a third party to poo poo the purchase making you feel even worse.  

Just wait until you buy a pin without playing it first and decide that you don't like the game, even though some people say they love it!

From the sellers point of view there are sellers who price things lower than what they could get, there are those that price higher and can afford to wait, there are those that fix their machines up so you'd think they were new, there are those who don't mention the "issues" - it's a buyer beware kind of market and unless someone is out and out lying, I don't think you will have much recourse.  Your satisfaction is a very nebulous sort of thing (I have seen buyers perfectly happy with things I wouldn't accept, and vice versa.  

I think you will sleep better taking the zen approach and accepting your purchase as a good thing.  1) pinballs, especially IJ, are slowly getting harder to come by regardless of price, 2) good quality playfields are WORTH the price of admission and other things are easier to get fixed, 3) it's up to the buyer to investigate their purchase, and 4) you never know, you may get a lemon one day and a pineapple the very next.

Quoted from websherpa

I think you will sleep better taking the zen approach and accepting your purchase as a good thing.  1) pinballs, especially IJ, are slowly getting harder to come by regardless of price, 2) good quality playfields are WORTH the price of admission and other things are easier to get fixed, 3) it's up to the buyer to investigate their purchase, and 4) you never know, you may get a lemon one day and a pineapple the very next.

Thanks for that - really appreciated.  I do accept my purchase as a good thing - a learning experience.  I am still very excited and can't wait to get my pin back from the tech with it all fixed up.  If i could have found a pin locally and checked it out first I would have.  However, I got very excited about owning one and after two months, I could not wait any longer.  

I appreciate the comments.  

Also keep this in mind... for every pin you will buy at no matter what the price, even if ridiculously low, there will ALWAYS be someone that will tell you that they NEVER would have paid so much for it.

My case in point, my 50$ Evel Knievel. It was rough. One member came over and saw it and laughed at me for even buying it. 2 months and 400$ later, I had a nicely fixed up EK. I sold it later and a few members have owned it since.

Also, there is this... your machine is well over 10 years old. Mine are in average 28 years old. Imagine how I would feel if I started regretting every purchase. Yes, look at the pin before you buy it. But then again, never expect 5 years of faultless playing. I still remember the MAACA meeting we had at Marty's in 2005. He had old pins in the garage that worked well... and a TSPP that was almost new that broke down.

You will get to know that fixing pins is half the fun of owning them!!!  


Sparky


PS: and as for buying a pin from Jim... anytime, anywhere. In fact, I am picking up one soon, and still debating for another. Jim is not a technician, but if he knows there is something wrong with a game, he will be the first to tell you. A stand-up seller.

Quoted from Sparky

PS: and as for buying a pin from Jim... anytime, anywhere. In fact, I am picking up one soon, and still debating for another. Jim is not a technician, but if he knows there is something wrong with a game, he will be the first to tell you. A stand-up seller.

Again, to restate - I am not upset at all with Jim.  I do not believe he misled me at all.  He took extra photos for me and answered all of the questions he could.  The responsibility is mine and mine alone for the purchase.  Once I pay to have this machine 100% fixed up I will have invested $4700 including shipping.   A bit on the high side - yes - but considering I never plan on selling this machine - EVER - I don't think I have messed up too badly  

I just entered this hobby a year ago and it really is like gambling. Don't do it unless you can afford the ups and downs. Kind of like buying a house - don't put all the money into the down payment because the additional costs (especially the hidden ones you discover after you take possession) are going to cost you - unavoidable.

I don't have much electronic expertise so when I buy a pin I know I am taking a certain amount of risk because even if the pin looks fantastic, well electronics are somewhat frail and mechanicla parts are prone to internal wear; so you need to have a repair fund ready to go.

My first pin (which was also from Jim) was bought on ebay for a small sum. I decided I was not going to take the big risk of buying an expensive pin sight unseen for my first purchase. I too was dissapointed because it worked at Jims but once I got it into my basement - Nada! After a week I managed to determine it was just a bad solder joint which broken and I had it up and running. However, I will never forget that moment of utter dismay!

When I finally bought my fantastic TZ from Jim (and spent what I thought was a small fortune) I played it on several occasions at Jims showroom and checked it out pretty good (given my abilities and knowledge) and agonized over the decision. Anyway, I fell in love with this machine and have now spent hundreds more on mods just to make it even more lovable.

But my comfort level in the hobby is not such that I could spend that much on a pin sight unseen. I would probably buy a moderately priced pin sight unseen based upon the opinions of many of the people here on MAACA who have really good technical knowledge of their pins.

Jim is a great guy but he lives by his name (jvegas) and buys more pins sight unseen than anyone so the service history on these games is all over the map. Some were very well maintained and looked after and some not so much but it is often difficult to determine this unless you are a tech or a veteran in the hobby.

Just keep your risk ($$$) at your comfort level. As they say "Big Risk - Big Reward in the Twilight Zone".  

I love this hobby but it sure ain't cheap. As you said sinpin, once you have your IJ up to speed you will love it even if it did cost you a little more than planned. Enjoy the hobby but protect yourself, I know I sure am.

Quoted from Tuborg

I'm new to this (1 year) - and the hardest problems to fix are cosmetics in most cases - as they take significant time & money - and you can't really get a pinball-mechanic to say touch-up a playfield or spray-paint a cabinet.   Game-specific parts aside, it sounds like you are o.k. - a few problems fixed and you're good to go.   If the cosmetics are good you're laughing.   It doesn't sound like there are that many pins available in Calgary so you might be waiting awhile to find an IJ locally for any better price.

Likely with a gaucho you are going to want to get the confidence to strip the top-side and clean wax everything.   (MrHide has photos of that).

For what it's worth, I looked in person at the first few pins and I didn't know what the "Free Play. <- dot" was all about - nor how to traverse the menus to do the tests.   If it lit-up and made noise, I was happy.   No regrets either though.

Isn't that Shadow still available in Calgary??

Ok i'm going to be the brave soul and ask the newbie question:  What does the dot after free play mean again?

Quoted from Firehawk734

Ok i'm going to be the brave soul and ask the newbie question:  What does the dot after free play mean again?

It means there is an error.  It was designed as a quick way for operators to know something is wrong without opening the door.  Once you open the door it'll tell you to press 'enter' for error messages.  It could anything from a non-working switch to 'time and date not set'.

Mike

OHHHHHH

And from what year to what year was this used?  

Not sure of the years.   I think all DMD games from all manufactures followed the same "standard".   The pros will correct me if I'm wrong I hope.

The one thing I just recently learned - is the "dot" helps you know there is a problem.   But "no dot" only means that the machine has not dedected a problem yet.   Someone "less than honest" can reset the problem-reports and the dot disappears.   A lot of times a dot is related to a failed switch - and is detected if after 50-games the switch isn't hit.   So, a broken-switch problem can be hidden from the Free-Play-Dot - for 50-games... You would still see the problem in switch tests though.