I wake up the next day, wife still in bed, decide it is time for some COD5 that I got for boxing day on the  Xbox. I play for about 10 minutes and BAM! I get the Red Ring Of Death

So I researched how to fix it yesterday and bought the hardware today.

I removed the 2 "X-Clamps" that are holding the heat sinks to the GPU and the CPU. I then cleaned and reapplied good Artic 5 silver heat sink paste. The amount form Microsoft stock was WAYYY to much thermal paste. Then I used M5X16mm pan head machine screws ( and some M5 or 5mm washers to attach the 2 heat sinks to there respective chips.  I had to drill out the original mounting holes in the metal case the Motherboard sits on for the new M5 bolts to fit.

I stacked 4 washers per post under the Motherboard on the M5 bolts, and 2 washers on the M5 bolts above the motherboard. Then out the heat sinks back on and tightened them down snug (washers act as spacers and keep the PCB "flat" and not stressed by over tightening a bolt.

Put the front button, HD and Fans back in the xbox and fired her up. Still had the RROD. Let it run without the fan for about 5 min until it got 2 red lights (overheat) and shut down. The theory here is that you "re bake" and broken traces that were causing the RROD. The traces broke due to board warp-age when hot, or so they say.

After cool down, started her up and she has been working for about 4 hours straight now.

I am glad I did not have to drop 200$ on a new Xbox!

Parts I used to fix=
M5 pan head machine bolt (Eight)
M5 (5mm) Washers (Forty Eight)
Thermal paste
99% isopropanol alcohol to clean off the GPU and CPU for new paste
Q-Tips

Voiding your free extended warranty from MS...

Priceless

Quoted from mark

Voiding your free extended warranty from MS...

Priceless

Thinking the same thing!

Let alone the 7-to-30 day in-store warranty (depending on the store you bought it from)

Quoted from machine.slave

Thinking the same thing!

Let alone the 7-to-30 day in-store warranty (depending on the store you bought it from)

Bought 2 years ago used. I Called MS about the warranty a year or so ago when it got RROD (fixed itself) and was told that the serial number on the Xbox had already been registered to the previous owner..and as such I had no warranty  

Believe me, if it was a option I would be all over it.

OH!!  My mistake.. I thought it was the Xbox that was new.  Sorry about that.

A buddy bought a bunch of those earlier returned xbox's and did this mod - and resold them - made a bit of cash, but in my mind a lot of work for a few $$$...

Glad you could fix it, now I know who to see when mine goes FUBAR (after the warranty expires of course).

MS isn't fussy. My box was off warrantee. It broke. I cracked it open. It was F'd. I paid $100 for a repair and they sent me a brand new box.

I wouldn't sweat it. I'd of done the same thing.

Never buy a 360 used for this reason. I'm on my 4th 360! (all repaired under 3 year warranty)

I am also on my 4th one.
On my latest one seems to be fine for now.
I had to change the DVD drive because it died that was not coverd under warrenty and that was 30 days after the repair said was not coverd?
Then had to figure out how to hack the firmware so i could use the drive doing this also modded my xbox did not want to though but it is .
On a side note Then I wanted to buy the 120 gig saw the price and said F that seeying i could get the bev western digital for 58$
I did the programing  of the drive and copy my info back and now 120 gig on live no issues.

This really blows my mind... Up until recently, I had an Atari 2600, a ColecoVision and an NES, all on which in a 20+ year period only needed to be cleaned, and get the occasional new joystick. They were played on a regular basis. Never broke down.

I heard that Microsoft hastened the development of the 360 to get on the market early, but this is ridiculous... After a 3rd opne, I would have asked for a refund...

I'm still on my second (only because I sold my first to pay bills.. long story).  Had it for almost 3 years strong, and I've even dropped it.

*knocks on wood*

I've never seen an NES in this day that still works. That machine was heavily flawed too, didn't you ever have to blow on the cartridges to get them to work?
Apparently, you can get the NES working perfectly with a new connector.

Plus, why would I ask for a refund for my 360? Each time it broke, MS fixed it for free, and within a week! Plus, it's got the games I want to play, and when it's working, it's a fantastic machine.

Quoted from jonny_eh

when it's working, it's a fantastic machine.

Welcome to the era of over-disposable consumerism...

It is just me, or is there a direct correlation between how modern something is
and how quickly it breaks...

Appliances built in the 60's worked fine for 30+ years.
Nowadays, you're lucky if you get 10 years out of your fridge or washing machine...

Electronics are even worse...
Who here has a cell-phone older than 3 years old... ?

Plasma and LCD's have "picture life" of 5-7 years before you need to replace parts.
My 1992 Sony Trinitron is still working fine thank-you very much...
(... and my 1984 Panasonic TV is still great for the kids VCR ... )

... Commodore 64 (1981) still works.    2002 ATX PC, dead.
Xbox Vs. Intellivision,  ...see Sparky's comments...

.... aaahhhh, the good 'ole days ...

/rant off



Steph

Quoted from Steph

Electronics are even worse...
Who here has a cell-phone older than 3 years old... ?

*Raises Hand*

Steph, I don't see the big deal. When talking about electronics, they go obsolete within a few years anyways. Competition is just so fierce, and everyone just wants the cheapest option available (hello iphone haters), there's no point in companies risking market share to make more reliable products.

Also, to bring it back to pinball, how long do they last before they need repairs?

BTW, my NES: DEAD, SNES: DEAD, Dreamcast: DEAD. Game consoles were never very reliable, at least for me.

Sure, the 360 has a definite flaw, but MS has replaced machines for free, and they no longer have the flaw (supposedly).

Quoted from Steph

Appliances built in the 60's worked fine for 30+ years.
Nowadays, you're lucky if you get 10 years out of your fridge or washing machine...

But isn't the world better now with a fridge you can plug your iPod into?  

Quoted from machine.slave

But isn't the world better now with a fridge you can plug your iPod into?  

Actually, my wife would love that. She loves listening to her ipod while cooking in the kitchen. Right now she has to take the ipod compatible clock radio from the living room and bring it into the kitchen. It's annoying to keep moving it, and it takes up precious counter top space.

Now they just need a washer/dryer with ipod support!

Believe it or not, my NES still works and is played every now and then by my kids.  The 360 is too fragile, there was a flaw but at least they provided support for it (not that they had much choice) which is something Sony didn't do with their PSone, which I knew no one who didn't end up playing their system upside down to get the games to work.

Speaking of the old systems, I love 'em but we have to be honest, the more complex something is, the more likely there's a chance it can break (unless it's uber expensive to have redundancy built in).  You can't compare a system that's based on cartridges with a CD based system that runs very hot because of the CPU/GPU, it's not the same thing man!

i seem to be the luckiest dude around when it comes to 360.

still have my *launch day* (Nov 2005) xbox 360 ... working great, no RROD at all. and i've played it a *lot*.

i guess being someone who enjoys cool air at home (if home temp goes over 21〬C, i get uncomfortable) helps. also probably helps that the 360 is directly exposed to my AC fan.

My Atari 2600 that I received in 1982 still works like a charm. Same for my Atari 5200 (joysticks are 'OK'), Atari 7800, Colecovision, Intellivision, PONGS and even my Original XBOX and 3DO.

I don't have a 360, wii or PS2 or PS3...and I'm not looking into buying one in the near (or far) future...What's the point of buying a 'cool toy' where it would just gather a crapload of dust?

Mes deux cennes,

Frosken

Quoted from jonny_eh

Never buy a 360 used for this reason. I'm on my 4th 360! (all repaired under 3 year warranty)

Wow thats scary.

Quoted from jonny_eh

I've never seen an NES in this day that still works.

Both my NES and Genesis still work fine.

Quoted from jonny_eh

Steph, I don't see the big deal. When talking about electronics, they go obsolete within a few years anyways. Competition is just so fierce, and everyone just wants the cheapest option available (hello iphone haters), there's no point in companies risking market share to make more reliable products.

Also, to bring it back to pinball, how long do they last before they need repairs?

BTW, my NES: DEAD, SNES: DEAD, Dreamcast: DEAD. Game consoles were never very reliable, at least for me.

Sure, the 360 has a definite flaw, but MS has replaced machines for free, and they no longer have the flaw (supposedly).

I forgot to mention that my original xbox's hard drive died, but I replaced it. Also, my DS is having problems with the left shoulder button. So even Nintendo's modern systems are not immune from failure.

Quoted from frosken

I don't have a 360, wii or PS2 or PS3...and I'm not looking into buying one in the near (or far) future...What's the point of buying a 'cool toy' where it would just gather a crapload of dust?

these newer systems have some incredible games on them, and i have to say that we are in a golden era of gaming because standards are now incredibly high. it's not just about mechanics anymore - games are becoming an art (see: everyday shooter, castle crashers, street fighter 2 hd edition, braid, little big planet, dead space, okami, etc, etc, etc).

what i'm trying to say is --- from someone who is incredibly nostalgic about classic games --- do not ignore the current generation of consoles, and "make time" if you dont have any.

Hmmm... old consoles VS new ones... Same debate as older pinballs VS newer ones. First factor is nostalgia. As for games, it is two different mentalities when it comes to gameplay.

Older games were at their purest... 95% gameplay, 5% graphics. They were designed with ardaces in mind... quick games to maximize revenues. By doing this, great skill is needed. Anyone who can pull a 500000pt game on Pacman or a marathon-game on Robotron is tops in my book. These games were designed with an average game of less than 2 minutes. The console games were the same. Fast-paced, balls-to-the-wall gaming. Arcades were gods... consoles just followed for that quick fix.

Fast-forward 25 years later...

No more arcades... the home market rules now. Technology makes it easy for a small box to match whatever the arcade market will produce. In fact, any more improvements would be near-perfect realistic graphics, and advanced AI. Some arcades survive by creating games with special hardware. Consoles can't do this, but then again, can still release the games. And since people go less and less to arcades due to this, there is no way that they can continue to have quickie games... so they make them more graphics-oriented... now, graphics take more room percentage-wise over gaming. It is no longer about which level you can get to... scores are now obsolete... it is about who can finish the game without the cheat codes. Gone is the glamour of being able to boast that you kick a** at a game, but now it is replaced by nearly a movie... kinda like Dragon's Lair, but with better gameplay and more interaction.


My 0.02$ is that you cannot compare these 2 eras. The only thing I believe is that the older games have more staying power due to their gameplay challenge, and near total absence of cheats (there are some... ), while newer games will probably not age as well.

Case in point? There are probably more people playing Robotron today than House of the Dead.

But yes... any old-school-gamer will probably find the latest Gran Turismo very nice, but not in the mood in staying in front of the TV for 36 hours straight just to get a bit ahead in the game.

And any new-school-gamer will probably be extremely frustrated with older games like Robotron 2084 and Defender, and end up finding it boring.

Me? I like getting my a** kicked over a few minutes and be done... gives me more time to fix pinballs.

Quoted from Sparky

...
Case in point? There are probably more people playing Robotron today than House of the Dead.

But yes... any old-school-gamer will probably find the latest Gran Turismo very nice, but not in the mood in staying in front of the TV for 36 hours straight just to get a bit ahead in the game.

And any new-school-gamer will probably be extremely frustrated with older games like Robotron 2084 and Defender, and end up finding it boring.

Me? I like getting my a** kicked over a few minutes and be done... gives me more time to fix pinballs.

If anything has changed, it's that there is more of a variety of games today. That might be counter-intuitive, but it's true. You have your Metal Gear Solids which are very movie like in their presentation, but you also have your Geomatry Wars Retro Evolved or Pac-Man CE which are very retro in gameplay. They also have an advantage over the classic arcade games in that if you get a high score, you can share it with the world! If you wanted to, you could sit down with Pac-Man CE and decide that you will be the best player in the world, and prove it. Modern consoles also give people to compete more easily, with services like Xbox Live. And as Rock Band and Guitar Hero have proven, you can also enjoy specialized controllers on consoles too.

Sparky, if you like the old games, I heartily recommend modern 'classics' like Geomatry Wars and Pac-Man CE, both are for the xbox 360. There's a reason they have a version of the 360 called 'Arcade', it comes with 5 'arcade like' games. You may also like the REALLY trippy game Space Giraffe, which is like a modern Tempest, but WAY more insane!

Personally, I think Pac-Man CE is a HUGE improvement over the original (and Ms Pac-Man). It's a real blast! Namco tried to revive Galaga too with Galaga Legions, but it wasn't much of a success. Why Midway hasn't tried the same thing with Defender or Robotron 2084 is beyond me.

Quoted from jonny_eh

Personally, I think Pac-Man CE is a HUGE improvement over the original (and Ms Pac-Man). It's a real blast! Namco tried to revive Galaga too with Galaga Legions, but it wasn't much of a success. Why Midway hasn't tried the same thing with Defender or Robotron 2084 is beyond me.

Like the song goes... AIN'T NOTHING LIKE THE REAL THING BAY- BEH.... AIN'T NOTHING LIKE THE REAAAAAAAAAL THIIIIIIING.



To be honest, I have looked at getting an XBox 360 or PS3... problem is, I get as much fun out of MAME games than I would that... and save a few hundred bucks, only to spend it on a pin.

The biggest problem for me with arcade vids is that most of them are designed to eat your quarters, and to challenge your skills to keep that quarter alive.  It's a whole different game when they're set to freeplay.. I realized that after I owned Double Dragon and beat it in 12 minutes.  Not nearly as gratifying as it was when I was a kid..  

And that is why some believe having games with a "continue?" option was the beginning of the end of the arcades. Personally, I like all eras and don't see one better than the other.  Anyone who's got a 360 and is an achievement whore, or plays Xbox Live Arcade games with their world records can be VERY satisfied with what is available.  BTW, there's something new on XBL called "community games". THese are games created by Joe Shmoe's at home, just like during the C64 era, using the Microsoft XNA dev kit and these sell for about $2.50 to $5.00.  Many of these aren't the greatest BUT they all seem to take a hint from the classic gaming era:  playability first.

BTW, Space Giraffe, a Jeff Minter game, is a little too trippy for me, it's to the point where I feel I have to light up a fatty to get any sense of it and while that might appeal some of you, it's too far out to me. Too bad, there's a great Tempest style game burried in there but he went too far with the visual explosion, to the point where you have trouble seeing what's going on (but some have no trouble with it).  Anyway, for me, it's just too wild. Why he didn't tone it down and have his "trippy" mode selectable under "hardcore" I'll never know, but I do know it cost him a lot of sales.  Here's hoping his new game coming out (another take on his C64 arcade homage Gridrunner+++).

Hmmm, according to wikipedia, he's working on the visualization aspect of Space Invaders Extreme... for the XBL Arcade port. Should be cool and because it's for another dev, he'll certainly tone it down a bit.

double post ... sorry

Quoted from The Loafer

it's to the point where I feel I have to light up a fatty to get any sense of it..

Now you're talkin'!

Quoted from jonny_eh

BTW, my NES: DEAD, SNES: DEAD, Dreamcast: DEAD. Game consoles were never very reliable, at least for me.

Other than Xbox and the 360 I haven't ended up with a dead older console yet.

NES alive, Saturn alive, Dreamcast alive, PSOne alive, N64 alive, PS2 alive....

I was never a big console player though until really Xbox 360 came along and even then it got relatively limited play.

BTW, Pac-Man CE was created by the original designer of Pac-Man, if that means anything. Other than nostalgia, it delivers in spades in every other area over the original. It's a hugely underrated game and it's a shame to overlook just because it's not emulated in MAME... yet. The Xbox 360 Arcade is only $200 now, that's pretty damn cheap, and as a bonus it comes with 5 arcade games, including Pac-Man CE!! It also has Zuma, which is another favourite of mine.

Space Invaders Extreme for XBLA? Count me in! I was soooo disappointed in the Galaga Legions game, hopefully the new Space Invaders can fill that gap.

As a side note, it's funny to note that the true successor of classic arcade games are online flash games. Flash games tend to be simple, have innovative gameplay, and tend to be made by one or two guys.