Since the subject was raised, I thought I would post briefly on this...

First off, let us differentiate tire-kicking from lowballing. Tire-kickers are people that ask for 1000 pictures on a item but generally have little to no intention of buying the item. Annoying? Absolutely... but not so bad.

Lowballers are people that offer a ridiculous amount of money for a product, in search of that elusive SUPER deal. Annoying, AND insulting. They often do so for various reasons... abundant interest but total lack of funds, or they sense that the seller is in a pinch so they give a low offer like vultures circling a dying animal... you get the idea.

Now let us be clear, a person is not a lowballer if they PAY a ridiculously low amount which was set by the SELLER. THEN the buyer made a great deal.

But... what most lowballers seem to forget is that this is a small collector community. We kid around when someone posts a machine for sale and writes BEST OFFER or MAKE AN OFFER and we post stupid amounts like 10 bucks, but that is to give a clue to the seller to at least post what he would like for it and save everyone some time. But when you lowball a seller big-time, that seller will always remember you and often refuse to sell you anything, regardless if later on you offer the asking price or even more. THAT is what I meant when I mentioned the blacklist.

I have a few people that I refuse to sell to, no matter what. I posted one example on a post GJD started a while back, asking about a lowball offer people have gotten. That same member that lowballed me contacted me a while back, asking me to do his playfield and was offering MORE than I would charge.

I told him to ship his crap to the US.

The point is that once you are labelled as a lowballer, a lot of doors close on you. Negotiate in good faith. Contact the seller and start a dialogue. if you don't like the asking price, contact them and ask them what their lowest price is.

Be curteous, be fair. Don't forget... ultimately, the seller has the last word... not the buyer.

Just my 0.02$.

Best written post I've seen regarding this issue.

Agreed.

Once I'm insulted, call them out - refuse to deal at any price, that's about where I stand as a seller.

Quoted from Sparky

Lowballers are people that offer a ridiculous amount of money for a product, in search of that elusive SUPER deal. Annoying, AND insulting. They often do so for various reasons... abundant interest but total lack of funds, or they sense that the seller is in a pinch so they give a low offer like vultures circling a dying animal... you get the idea.

Meh. That's what the delete button is for on your keyboard.

It doesn't really affect me getting a low ball offer. I just make a mental note of the fact someone thought I might be despirate or naive enough to go for it and that they don't know me very well.

Time wasting bothers me way more then lowballing.

Nothing burns my a** more then someone committing to something and then either backing out at the last second or not even having the decency to call or contact me and tell me and tell me the deal is off.  Either way that Sh!t only happens once and then I never deal with the person again and anyone that will listen I let know what a d!ck move that person pulled so they don't waste their time either.  

However, let's turn this 180 degrees and look at highballers.  I don't see anyone telling a guy he is asking too high of a price and when we do we get censored because the guy has the right to ask for what he wants. The answer we sometimes get is "just don't buy" and that is fine.

Lowballing is not insulting and you should not take it personnally.  Just say no thank you and/or counter offer.  Bargaining is part of life and there is nothing wrong with a low offer because most people ask a lot higher to get that "big fish" or "sucker" and I don't see anyone making a thread on this.

If you ask for a fair price for a fair product you will sell but I am more insulted by people that search suckers that don't know the price of things and get sucked in then a guy who lowballs.  You are right about making a name for yourself but again if you can't handle the pressure don't play with the big boys.

So lowballing a guy that is highballing is wrong?  Don't get me wrong, if you know the guy is in a financial bind and you lowball because of that you are abusing a situation and frankly I don't want to know because I can't stand you as a person..........But if you get insulted by lowballing then you should not be in any kind of business because if I sell something $1000 and you offer $500 I will laugh a bit and tell you No and either counter offer or wait.

Lowballing is highly suggestive and frankly if you lowball me....go ahead I find it entertaining not insulting.  What insults me is abusing people.

My two cents

Gilles

I haven't sold any machines, but have sold other things.  One instance comes to mind.  I was having a Garage sale most stuff $5 - $10.  Had a toaster new in a unopened box worth about 30-40 new(I think I got it as a gift). I had it for 5 bucks.  Some joker offered me .25 cents.  This was so low I was actually offended(figure that at a garage sale). I replied I would get more enjoyment running it over with my truck then selling it to you for that, then I asked him to leave. Hell if he offered my 2 dollors I would of took it.  I know what you feel like and I pay what I can afford and if it's not in the ball park I will not even offer. Sold many cars and always get the people that think it's 1/4 of what it actually is. Usally there is wiggle room in all asking prices but not 3/4 of the asking price.  Some people don't get it.  And don't get me started on people that think thier stuff is worth it weight in gold but your stuff is worthless when they want to trade.[/RANT]

Lance

Ok here's a list of guys I refuse to deal with.

Chuckie
Spunky
Bucko
Buddy
Buster
Biff
Slick

Anyone else I will take on a case by case basis.

Quoted from Cobra99

And don't get me started on people that think thier stuff is worth it weight in gold but your stuff is worthless when they want to trade.[/RANT]

Heh.. reminds me of Carlin.  "Your stuff is mess, and my mess.. is stuff!"

Let me ask you this:  Someone asks for $100 on a project pin and you know you can get $1000 by doing nothing on it because obviously the seller is not in the know of the gem he owns.  Is this OK!  Will you tell this person that the machine is worth at least $750 or will you pay and tell yourself that you gave the asking price and it is OK!

Legally right but morally...................freakin wrong and guess what? you and I would most likely not say anything or barely hint about it after all you paid full price!  If any of you would really 100% say to the seller that he/she is not asking enough please tell us because there are not many of you and you deserve a bow.

keep on smiling I know I am!

Quoted from Cobra99

Hell if he offered my 2 dollors I would of took it.  
Lance

Agree with you that this is ridiculous and stupid but $2 on a $5 item is lowballing.........this is a reduction of 60%.  Obviously I don't understand lowballing can someone explain to me what lowballing is because an offer 60% below the original asking price is lowballing in my book and if you are asking 60% more than what you want then you are highballing...........

I guess I don't get it.

tks

Quoted from gmaranda

However, let's turn this 180 degrees and look at highballers.  I don't see anyone telling a guy he is asking too high of a price and when we do we get censored because the guy has the right to ask for what he wants. The answer we sometimes get is "just don't buy" and that is fine.

Lowballing is not insulting and you should not take it personnally.  Just say no thank you and/or counter offer.  Bargaining is part of life and there is nothing wrong with a low offer because most people ask a lot higher to get that "big fish" or "sucker" and I don't see anyone making a thread on this.

If you ask for a fair price for a fair product you will sell but I am more insulted by people that search suckers that don't know the price of things and get sucked in then a guy who lowballs.  You are right about making a name for yourself but again if you can't handle the pressure don't play with the big boys.

So lowballing a guy that is highballing is wrong?  Don't get me wrong, if you know the guy is in a financial bind and you lowball because of that you are abusing a situation and frankly I don't want to know because I can't stand you as a person..........But if you get insulted by lowballing then you should not be in any kind of business because if I sell something $1000 and you offer $500 I will laugh a bit and tell you No and either counter offer or wait.

Lowballing is highly suggestive and frankly if you lowball me....go ahead I find it entertaining not insulting.  What insults me is abusing people.

My two cents

Gilles

  Your absolutely right ( It's my opinion too ! ) It's even more insulting to see someone trying to sell a pin way too much on MAACA . Go on les pacs or on kijji but not on MAACA please.

Quoted from gmaranda

Agree with you that this is ridiculous and stupid but $2 on a $5 item is lowballing.........this is a reduction of 60%.  Obviously I don't understand lowballing can someone explain to me what lowballing is because an offer 60% below the original asking price is lowballing in my book and if you are asking 60% more than what you want then you are highballing...........

I guess I don't get it.

tks

Yes that is low and in another avenue it wouldn't be accepatable, but this was a garage sale.  I guess there is a line where it worth it to get rid of something and anything under that is unacceptable, that is why a askng price is so important.    In any other dealing I ask for what I think it's worth with some room to negotiate.  To all the users with the inflated prices I just avoid, since I think thier off thier rocker (trying to land that one big fish is plain stupid in my eyes) Southern music come to mind

... you all say that, but I bet most of you would be first to contact me if I decided to give away a pin.

Okay, but what happens when you score a great deal (haggled down or not), say $100 for a an $800 pin and you choose to sell. What is the appropriate price to post here on MAACA if some members know you got it for a song?

Quoted from Sparky

... you all say that, but I bet most of you would be first to contact me if I decided to give away a pin.

PM sent....

tartagliag

Quoted from Sparky

First off, let us differentiate tire-kicking from lowballing. Tire-kickers are people that ask for 1000 pictures on a item but generally have little to no intention of buying the item. Annoying? Absolutely... but not so bad.

I'd tend to say that tire-kickers are WORSE than low-ballers, at least low-ballers (unless they start out by tire-kicking) waste less time, you respond "No" and then add them to your personal blacklist (you know the one we all share around at the coffee machine).

Quoted from Sparky

The point is that once you are labelled as a lowballer, a lot of doors close on you. Negotiate in good faith. Contact the seller and start a dialogue. if you don't like the asking price, contact them and ask them what their lowest price is.

Absolutely gospel.  Again, I'd argue that there is some cultural aspect to low-balling.  Some cultures find it absoltuely insulting, others consider it part of the bargain process.

I do believe though, that there is a right way and a wrong way to approach someone if you want something for much less than the askign price.  That is with courtesy and a lot of humbledness (?).  

Let's call it "pinetiquette", create a sticky edited by Sparky and please contribute:

I suggest Rule 1) if you sense that your offer is going to offend the seller (or it is well below both the asking price and the market value for the proposed condition), then don't even bother to make it (there are those who feel that "if I don't try, I'll never know"),

2) if you are fairly experienced and know that the asking price is too high OR that you only have limited funds, be honest and humble in your approach (such as "I know you'll get a better offer, but if you don't, I have $$$ to spend") - but know that if you take this approach and back out you are risking the blacklist.

3) If you do get what YOU consider a good deal on a purchase, do not bother to brag about it on the board - not only will you piss off the seller, when it comes time to sell, you will have cut your prospective customers by half or more.

4) IF you have the guts to low-ball and the seller turns around and sells it to someone for more - don't come bitching on the board, you did not get rooked, the seller was just smarter than you, that's all.  

Quoted from OTTOgd

Okay, but what happens when you score a great deal (haggled down or not), say $100 for a an $800 pin and you choose to sell. What is the appropriate price to post here on MAACA if some members know you got it for a song?

  sell it for the normal price.  or alittle less if you want it to sell quick.
   loads of us have found things for less then the market value and either kept it and resold it later or resold it right away.  thats just good sales.

Quoted from gmaranda

people that search suckers that don't know the price of things

I think that's the whole basis of our economic system and why the rich get richer and the poor stay poor.  

Quoted Text

  Ok here's a list of guys I refuse to deal with.

Chuckie
Spunky
Bucko
Buddy
Buster
Biff
Slick

Anyone else I will take on a case by case basis.

OK I gotta stop pissing myself at work, its getting embarassing.

Regarding people who highball, if I want to deal with them I simply tell them what the machine is actually worth. In the case of when I bought my Dr Who machine it was half the guys asking price. I really did want the machine so I ended up paying a bit higher than market value. So, maybe the guy ended up getting more because he higballed.

Another example was some clown on Kijiji a few months ago highballing on a TSPP. I steered clear but another more experienced member here contacted the guy and I believe they ended up agreeing on the more realistic book value or thereabouts.

Lowballers, if they are really nervy wankers about it I just picture them in the bottom of the urinall, and piss on them.  I deal with people like that every day in my work and the odd one knocks me for a loop but I get over it. The ones I really despise are the people that try to get me to do all kinds of stuff so I can make no sale AND use up my time. That is just plain selfish. I wouldnt give those people the sweat off my ball$.

When I feel that something is not priced where it will be easily sold elsewhere, I am very courteous in my suggestion, and fully perpared to follow through if it is agreed. Life is just more pleasant that way. Buyers for the most part tend to be nicer because they know that if they piss you off you could get even somehow. Rude people tend not to buy.

Quoted from OTTOgd

Okay, but what happens when you score a great deal (haggled down or not), say $100 for a an $800 pin and you choose to sell. What is the appropriate price to post here on MAACA if some members know you got it for a song?

thsi is when you do a little touch-up on the cabinet, or ensure that all the board hacks are reversed BEFORE you sell it (which a few here don't).  

Quoted from OTTOgd

Okay, but what happens when you score a great deal (haggled down or not), say $100 for a an $800 pin and you choose to sell. What is the appropriate price to post here on MAACA if some members know you got it for a song?

I think what you paid for a machine is irrelevant... sell for fair market value regardless.

I paid $500 for Starship Troopers.. it was dirty as hell and the DMD was blown.  I stripped it down and cleaned it, threw in a working DMD and sold it for $1200 (more than fair, IMO).  Everyone was happy, and the buyer knew what I paid for it.

Quoted from wbradley

Another example was some clown on Kijiji a few months ago highballing on a TSPP. I steered clear but another more experienced member here contacted the guy and I believe they ended up agreeing on the more realistic book value or thereabouts.

I think that was the Getaway your thinking of Warren that I got.

Guy wanted $2600, I got him down to $1800 when I went and talked to him in person.

Some people just don't know, I like the story because I asked him where he came up with $2600 and he said that is what he paid for it 14 years ago.  Fair enough as far as I'm concerned, it was his only machine, not like he watched the market, how would he know any different.

Quoted from machine.slave

I think what you paid for a machine is irrelevant... sell for fair market value regardless.

I paid $500 for Starship Troopers.. it was dirty as hell and the DMD was blown.  I stripped it down and cleaned it, threw in a working DMD and sold it for $1200 (more than fair, IMO).  Everyone was happy, and the buyer knew what I paid for it.

If you notice anymore Starship Troopers in the $500 - $1200 range, can you let me know first please.  

Believe it or not I have a shmuk on hold right now who is trying to lowball me. How ironic.

Quoted from wbradley

Believe it or not I have a shmuk on hold right now who is trying to lowball me. How ironic.

Oh crap!  click.

Quoted from OTTOgd

Okay, but what happens when you score a great deal (haggled down or not), say $100 for a an $800 pin and you choose to sell. What is the appropriate price to post here on MAACA if some members know you got it for a song?

Exactly my point!  there is not such things as lowballing and highballing only offer and demand.  If you are happy with the price you got and the buyer is happy with what he/she paid then it is a match made in heaven.  If someone gives you a pin i.e brother etc. and a few years later you want to get rid of it and your brother doesn't want it back does that mean you have to give it away free since you did not pay it!

Fair market value is what you should get and or pay.  A deal is always sweet and I like them too!

Buy low sell high..............high does not mean ripping people off.

take care

Tricky subject.

I would submit that you can only lowball against the fair market value of an object.  If an object has a FMV of $100, and it is posted for sale at $300, then $80 is more than a fair offer.  I don't think anyone would disagree with that.  The squirmy bit becomes determining what that FMV is.

Your 'market', is the scope of available buyers within the period of time available to you.  I think that last bit is the kicker.  If you have an infinite amount of time to sell something to an infinite market, then the FMV is what would be reflected as it's book value.  If however you need to sell something for whatever reason within a given period of time, then your 'market' has now shrunk, the smaller the market, the smaller the demand, the lower the value.  If people know about your need to sell, then be prepared for offers lower than the book value.

Quoted from wbradley

Lowballers, if they are really nervy wankers about it I just picture them in the bottom of the urinall, and piss on them.

Good one, but the problem is that there are people out there that enjoy a good "golden shower" So doing this to them may just turn them on.........

keep on smiling

Quoted from Sparky

... you all say that, but I bet most of you would be first to contact me if I decided to give away a pin.

I would!! Who does not want free or really cheap stuff! Especially when it has a personal value. One mans junk type thing.

imo garage sales and flea markets are open game. Most of the stuff is old and/or usually purchased for very little or even free as in the toaster mentioned above.

Point is, lowballers can end up with a wicked deal. otherwise  its up to the seller to just say NO or counter offer! Bargaining seems to be a thing of the past.
Just recently I  was looking for a certain RC car and found many on lespac, kijiji and ebay. These sellers were asking  new value on a used item (not collectors items, thats different). In other words they were Highballing therefore I lowballed and most just said no. simple as that. No counter offer or any other response of any kind. But I was expecting that so just kept looking until I found what I wanted at the price I wanted.


So either way people, no offence should be taken as it is business and should be left at that.
Seller: If you don't like the offer then counter offer or just say no.
Buyer: If you don't like the counter offer or your offer was refused then go somewhere else.

Geeze, some of you folks are too sensitive.  You do realize there is a world outside of MAACA?

As a seller, you have the last word so why should lowballing or tire kickers matter?  Deal with it.  Honesty is what i value.  If someone does say they want what i'm selling, but it falls through then why should I get angry or upset if the guy/gal is honest?  And i don't exclude them on future deals.  Once the cash is in my hand then the deal is done, not before.  

One thing I absolutely won't tollerate are rediculous delivery fees and that will blacklist someone in my book.  

Quoted from OTTOgd

Okay, but what happens when you score a great deal (haggled down or not), say $100 for a an $800 pin and you choose to sell. What is the appropriate price to post here on MAACA if some members know you got it for a song?

Fair maket value.  It doesn't matter what you paid for it.  Just don't lie about having paid "full price" and that you're selling it for what you've paid...  It's a small community..  It's easy enough to find out what was paid.  There's 1 member in particular who likes to lie like that.  Buys low sells high and bullshits about how much he paid..  If he only knew   Word gets around   

Mike

Quoted from 1

I would!! Who does not want free or really cheap stuff! Especially when it has a personal value. One mans junk type thing.

imo garage sales and flea markets are open game. Most of the stuff is old and/or usually purchased for very little or even free as in the toaster mentioned above.

Point is, lowballers can end up with a wicked deal. otherwise  its up to the seller to just say NO or counter offer! Bargaining seems to be a thing of the past.
Just recently I  was looking for a certain RC car and found many on lespac, kijiji and ebay. These sellers were asking  new value on a used item (not collectors items, thats different). In other words they were Highballing therefore I lowballed and most just said no. simple as that. No counter offer or any other response of any kind. But I was expecting that so just kept looking until I found what I wanted at the price I wanted.


So either way people, no offence should be taken as it is business and should be left at that.
Seller: If you don't like the offer then counter offer or just say no.
Buyer: If you don't like the counter offer or your offer was refused then go somewhere else.

I completely agree with MacPhreak. What seems fair to me may not be fair to the next person. Who cares what anyone else thinks is a fair price for the item except me?

Quoted from ancientgames

Geeze, some of you folks are too sensitive.  You do realize there is a world outside of MAACA?

As a seller, you have the last word so why should lowballing or tire kickers matter?  Deal with it.  Honesty is what i value.  If someone does say they want what i'm selling, but it falls through then why should I get angry or upset if the guy/gal is honest?  And i don't exclude them on future deals.  Once the cash is in my hand then the deal is done, not before.  

One thing I absolutely won't tollerate are rediculous delivery fees and that will blacklist someone in my book.  

Bingo! Honesty is all I care about. Just don't lie to me. I can understand if you intended to buy something, but then couldn't for reasons outside your control. But don't just back out because you changed your mind.

What would really annoy me is if someone was a tire-kicker/low-baller (low-ball-kicker?). They ask for lots of pictures, but then give you a lowball, especially when you said your price was firm. This didn't happen to me, but has happened to someone I know, WTF? To me, that's a bit dishonest. Once you start asking for extra pictures, you are no longer allowed to lowball. If you want to lowball, take the risk with the pictures you've got.

I'll give you $0.01 for each of your $0.02's.

That's it for now on Im going to sell all my pins at a Mexican flea market!

What's a rediculous delivery fee?

If the guy lives in Bowmanville and wants me to deliver a pin for $100, I think that's reasonable, considering I live in Hamilton. Time/Distance/Price....... that dictates my fee and I'm definately not going to load it into my vehicle without a deposit - unless I know the buyer ( really WELL ).

Quoted from jonny_eh

What would really annoy me is if someone was a tire-kicker/low-baller (low-ball-kicker?). They ask for lots of pictures, but then give you a lowball, especially when you said your price was firm. This didn't happen to me, but has happened to someone I know, WTF? To me, that's a bit dishonest. Once you start asking for extra pictures, you are no longer allowed to lowball. If you want to lowball, take the risk with the pictures you've got.

Damn, that story sounds familiar. Oh wait, that was me.

Yes, I can put up with the low ballers. What really gets me is when we agree to a price, I send a whack of pictures, the guy then says "Oh you forgot the shooter lane". Of course, it's mint like the rest of the game and I take that picture, send it the next night. Then the a$$ tries to knock off a couple of hundred for no reason and wants free delivery to bloody Toronto -- we're not talking 20 minutes away. That pisses me off.

Duane

Quoted from TwilightZone

Damn, that story sounds familiar. Oh wait, that was me.

Yes, I can put up with the low ballers. What really gets me is when we agree to a price, I send a whack of pictures, the guy then says "Oh you forgot the shooter lane". Of course, it's mint like the rest of the game and I take that picture, send it the next night. Then the a$$ tries to knock off a couple of hundred for no reason and wants free delivery to bloody Toronto -- we're not talking 20 minutes away. That pisses me off.

Duane

Duane, could it be because the only thing missing was the "inspected by 21" label inside the cabinet????

tartagliag

Teehee!

THis thread is blowing up FAST!  I gotta say my useless crap before someone else does!

I have sold here, sold elsewhere, online and in person, Guitars, pins and Vids. and i worked in retail for a number of years.  Heres my take on "lowballing"

I have NO problem with someone asking if i can do a better deal... Example, if i am selling a guitar for $2k+shipping, and someone asks if i can cover shipping, I have no problem withthe request... case by case as far as the answer....  Or if it has sat for a while and been bumped (on a forum) and someone asks "Would you take 1800?" no problem there either.  I consider up to around 15%-20% in the "realm of possibility"

This is based on my pricing though... I try to get a fair price, not an inflated one.  If someone has a price i think is too high already, i am not even considering buying. I'll wait for their price to come into what i consider the proper range.

But asking if someone will take half, (or 1/4 which prompted this whole thread) is WAY off base.  SUre Terry has offered us all a Jpac and a smile for everything from a broken cab to a used truck, but it is in fun.  Someone seriously offering half or less than my asking? I immediately put them on a blacklist. and won't sell to them

I had an electric drum kit up for sale,  worth about 3.5k before taxes (got it on a trade for a high end guitar)  I decided i needed to sell it quick for a fair price and asked $1600 on kijiji.  There was someone who listed he was looking for one, so after i posted, I sent him a message that my ad was up if he was interested.  I got a reply offereing me $800 and no higher. so I didn't even bother returning the email.  I had it sold by the next morning at 8 am. less than 12 hours online.  He emailed me later, saying he might be able to do $850, and mad that i hadn't replied to him!!!  I told him it sold for full price to someone who laughed all the time he loaded up his van with my drums.  Since it was on Kijiji I din't know the guy, but if it was on a forum, i wouldn't accept an offer from him ever again.

Theres a candy cab floating around Kijij right now, and i am all "candy crazy"  But the guy wants $750 for an astro city.  I might pay up to $500 for it, but i am not going to send the offer, since i think it would be insulting to him/her.  I'll wait.  if the price lowers to my "safe range" I'll bite, if it doesn't then it was never meant to be.

I tend to not buy as much mind you, but i am usually happy that a deal is fair.


My $0.02

Sorry but I gotta open my pie hole again since I am so much into hostile negotiation.  Last summer I had a really nice dining set for sale on Kijiji for $600. The thing was mint as we never ate in the dining room, and I paid about $1200.00 for it when I lived in a condo.

Anyway, a lady with a thick East Indian accent (not relevant) calls and after several questions and my reassurance that it was mint, she offers me $200.00  I asked her why she thought to offer me that amount and her reply was that she was new to this country. I simply told her thank you for the offer and good luck but I dont need the money that bad and would rather donate it to charity if I had to.

Next day a really nice couple showed up (relatively new Canadians) and I agreed to $500. Also, as his wife was obviously pregnant, we gave them a whole bunch of baby stuff worth several hundred for free, some that had literally never been used.

See, it pays to be polite, Canadian style.

Quoted from wbradley

Sorry but I gotta open my pie hole again since I am so much into hostile negotiation.  Last summer I had a really nice dining set for sale on Kijiji for $600. The thing was mint as we never ate in the dining room, and I paid about $1200.00 for it when I lived in a condo.

Anyway, a lady with a thick East Indian accent (not relevant) calls and after several questions and my reassurance that it was mint, she offers me $200.00  I asked her why she thought to offer me that amount and her reply was that she was new to this country. I simply told her thank you for the offer and good luck but I dont need the money that bad and would rather donate it to charity if I had to.

Next day a really nice couple showed up (relatively new Canadians) and I agreed to $500. Also, as his wife was obviously pregnant, we gave them a whole bunch of baby stuff worth several hundred for free, some that had literally never been used.

See, it pays to be polite, Canadian style.

Nice gesture, good for you.   I consider myself a lucky guy and like you I try to help

Quoted from axe

Theres a candy cab floating around Kijij right now, and i am all "candy crazy"  But the guy wants $750 for an astro city.  I might pay up to $500 for it, but i am not going to send the offer, since i think it would be insulting to him/her.  I'll wait.  if the price lowers to my "safe range" I'll bite, if it doesn't then it was never meant to be.

Whats wrong with asking any way. You never know what will happen (tell my kids that all the time) and if they say no you can still wait till it goes down afterwards and resubmit the offer.

As far as lowball offer and never selling to that person again I think that is  burning your bridges behind you.
You might have something that person really wants and will still pay the price for it regardless of previous offers on other items.

I was also in retail at one point and  customers would try to negotiate a deal but in most case it was not possible.
They would come back a week or two later and buy said products for the listed price. So, if they lowballed me or not i will still sell it to them.
Happens all the time.

Point is, if they really want it they will come back for it either with a better offer or at your price. If not then it simply goes to someone else  or you keep it.

Quoted from wbradley

Anyway, a lady with a thick East Indian accent (not relevant)

Then why did you feel the need to mention it? and the fact that it is not relevant?

Quoted from axe

Theres a candy cab floating around Kijij right now, and i am all "candy crazy"  But the guy wants $750 for an astro city.  I might pay up to $500 for it, but i am not going to send the offer, since i think it would be insulting to him/her.  I'll wait.  if the price lowers to my "safe range" I'll bite, if it doesn't then it was never meant to be.

Would it be bad form to send an email to the guy saying "Hi, I see you have a nice Astro City for sale.  Although your asking price is probably fair, it is beyond my budget for this title.  If you aren't successful in selling it and are willing to accept $500, I would purchase it.  Let me know if this interests you and good luck with your sale".

Yeah, sounds kind of corny...

The thing is, maybe not all, but many, many people up the price expecting a bartering system. The seller may want $500, but because of bartering, if he posts $500, he/she thinks they'll have to let it for for $350-$400.  So he/she posts $700 thinking either they'll get lucky, or settle for the amount they want through the typical "dealing".

There's no doubt if EVERYONE sold/bought the same way, things would be more simple but that's not the case, so sometimes, I don't see it wrong if sending an email saying you're interested but the price is too high but wish him/her well on the sale and to consider you if the price goes down.  Its not something I make a habit of doing myself, I don't have the budget unfortunately ATM, but I guess my inexperienced ignorant self doesn't initially see this as a bad thing to do.

This is why I'm enjoying this thread; I have so much to learn and after I win the lotto, I can put your experience in practice .

Quoted from axe

But asking if someone will take half, (or 1/4 which prompted this whole thread) is WAY off base.

Is 1/2 price off base?  Because that's roughly what he eventually listed it for.  Don't get me wrong, I think the $100 was out of line, but you never know what someone really wants for something unless you ask.

Quoted from axe

Theres a candy cab floating around Kijij right now, and i am all "candy crazy"  But the guy wants $750 for an astro city.  I might pay up to $500 for it, but i am not going to send the offer, since i think it would be insulting to him/her.  I'll wait.  if the price lowers to my "safe range" I'll bite, if it doesn't then it was never meant to be.

Why would you think that that would insult them, and yet think that they would also drop the price to that amount?  

Warren, at the risk of sounding stereotypical, there are many cultures that work on the basis of haggling for items and it is customary. In fact if you don't haggle they consider you foolish.

Whole thing really comes down to catering to your audience. Don't get offended, just work with it and if you have to hold fast on price, so be it. I found in negotiations, never take anything personally.

When I buy a machine (or anything else) I HATE to barter/negotiate so I usually just ask the seller what price he wants/is happy with and I make my decision on that price which I tell him up front. Has always worked for me and I either get a game I want at a fair price (or a price I can live with) or walk away if the sellers price is more than I want to pay.

When I sell (rarely  ) , I try to put the game at a fair price for the quality of it and that's the price. I don't add on for negotiation room because I hate it (see above) and let the buyers know that. Anything I've sold has been for my asking price. I've never really been lowballed (except for Stargate - since everybody seems to think a Gottleib should be dirt cheap no matter what condition   ).

Bottom line for me is if buyer and/or seller take a minute to be polite and considerate, deals can happen quite easily with both parties happy in the end. The one line, abrupt offer by PM/email, lowball or not, usually just gets ignored by me.

I will say tho that a pet peeve of mine is the buyer who needs to see the machine TONIGHT!( ie within a few hours of original PM) and says they'll buy it, will be over this weekend to pick it up, etc,etc.... and then disappears with no courtesy to even respond to a PM. If you change your mind, can't afford it, partner says no or whatever, just be polite and let the seller know that. That's probably the one thing that I would "blacklist" somebody for, for me, for future sales.

My 0.02
ME

If I want something and someone is high I will try and work them down to a fair deal. Fair deal is what they have to offer i.e. machine and condition against the going rate. To me that's sufficient if I want it. The reason I set my threshold there is I can probably sell the machine if I don't like it for what I have in it.

Fair deal to me is also what the seller wants for something. If the seller wants less than the market value but is content to get that, IMHO that's a fair deal. He set a price and he got it. I am not about to pull more hundreds out my wallet to make him even more happy. The deals done, if he has sellers regret later so be it. He set the price and was happy to get that.

In my books, there is nothing wrong with "low-balling" as long as you do it in a non-confrontational way and are fully prepared to get no response.  Nothing wrong with "I'm only prepared to offer $500 at this time, which I know is below your asking price.  So, if you don't sell...etc."   That being said, extreme low-balling IS an insult, (e.g.) offering $100 on an item worth $1000.

I don't understand the disgust some people have with tire-kickers.  Store owners don't get mad when I walk in, look around, ask some questions and then decide not to buy.  That's part of the retail business.   When you post an ad in order to sell something, you are using a public forum, using up bandwidth and you have an obligation to accept the existence of people who will use your ad as an opportunity to dream about making the actual purchase.  Who in this forum hasn't test-driven a car they had very little intention of buying, or gone to an open-house for a home they KNEW they wouldn't buy ?  

When you attempt to sell an item, you should be prepared to deal with all sorts of potential customers, just like a store.  Send the pics, keep descriptions brief and send them on their way.  I don't see ANY reason to get bent out of shape with the so-called tire-kickers.  I think many people define a tire-kicker as a person who asks questions but doesn't buy the item.  Hell, I'm a tire kicker 90% of the time by that definition !

Quoted from Bally Boy

What's a rediculous delivery fee?

If the guy lives in Bowmanville and wants me to deliver a pin for $100, I think that's reasonable, considering I live in Hamilton. Time/Distance/Price....... that dictates my fee and I'm definately not going to load it into my vehicle without a deposit - unless I know the buyer ( really WELL ).

And i totally agree, but every situation is different.

For instance, if i sell to a member here or Cgcc, I try to figure a way of getting that machine to them at little or no cost.  If we are both going to SB, then I don't usually charge.  Or, if the persons place is on my way or to Toronto and i'm going anyway, then I don't charge.  I may accept an extra 20 when i'm there but usually I don't.  However, If i do ask for a fee and I happen to be delivering 3 machines, to 3 seperate people and we meet at the same place..then we divide the cost 3 ways.  You mention $100 delivery from Ham.  to TO...and if you had 3 machines to 3 different people, would it be $100 each even though you make one trip, no extra fuel?  Fair is dividing it 3 ways.  Thats my opinion.  I made the mistake very early on to ask a member for $50 to deliver to SB (2hrs for me, plus all those "other" expenses) and they responded "sure, will you pay for my fuel to come from London?".  Fair enough, since i wanted to sell it, and I was going anyway why am I charging?  If on the other hand I have had to rent a trailer, then I may ask for a little but its minimal.    If however a person asks me to deliver by a certan time, and i won't be going that way for any other reason, then yes.  There will be a little extra in the fee.  Each situation is different and not all turn out bad...but then there are some...

Quoted from medvet

When I buy a machine (or anything else) I HATE to barter/negotiate so I usually just ask the seller what price he wants/is happy with and I make my decision on that price which I tell him up front. Has always worked for me and I either get a game I want at a fair price (or a price I can live with) or walk away if the sellers price is more than I want to pay.

When I sell (rarely  ) , I try to put the game at a fair price for the quality of it and that's the price. I don't add on for negotiation room because I hate it (see above) and let the buyers know that. Anything I've sold has been for my asking price. I've never really been lowballed (except for Stargate - since everybody seems to think a Gottleib should be dirt cheap no matter what condition   ).

Bottom line for me is if buyer and/or seller take a minute to be polite and considerate, deals can happen quite easily with both parties happy in the end. The one line, abrupt offer by PM/email, lowball or not, usually just gets ignored by me.

I will say tho that a pet peeve of mine is the buyer who needs to see the machine TONIGHT!( ie within a few hours of original PM) and says they'll buy it, will be over this weekend to pick it up, etc,etc.... and then disappears with no courtesy to even respond to a PM. If you change your mind, can't afford it, partner says no or whatever, just be polite and let the seller know that. That's probably the one thing that I would "blacklist" somebody for, for me, for future sales.

My 0.02
ME

WELL SAID.

I also will NOT deal with people that try to buy a game out from under you and cause a seller to raise the price on a deal already made.
I do not use the term BLACK LIST

I use the term DOUCHE LIST  

Douche List hehehe

Ok here's my take, As a buyer; I do not seriously lowball.... I take the "Sorry not trying to be a douche, but this is the best I can do..."  approach, If I get no reply fair enough, no worries. I am not offended and I seriously hope the seller is not either.

As a seller, this has been debated here before, I tend to set my pricing higher EXPECTING a lowball offer and then go from there.. I think the "hunt" and Cat and mouse part of a deal is most of the fun anyway.

Dependng on what I am selling i.e. 60 in 1 I include free delivery, 2 hours from LOndon in any direction.
Also if I am already going somewhere I don't charge people, bring this to starburst please, do you mind picking up this at Starburst... etc.

Tire kickers are all part of the deal... too

I am wiht MEDVET on the "yes I will buy it" then never her from them again, send me a message I am easy...
Hell I have had to do that before with my tail betwwen my legs..."Sorry thought I could, something has come up"
But I always let the person know...

Douche List heheheh still laughing at that one

I rarely low ball anybody,try to get price down but i don't make stupid comments where there asking 1000$ and I offer 100$.(well except for Sparky tires a few years ago he said he wanted them out said best offer i did i felt was low he said ok so worked out.)
But things are different when i see a machine in person if the actual machine cosmetics are off i haggle appropriately.
Did do some tire kicking a few times i feel bad for that but sometimes act on impulse then i realize ah that games get boring quick or pics are horrible to look at and loose patience quick and cant be bothered to ask for better pics.
But for buy low sell high i know a few people like that and they don't lie to me because they know that i know what they where purchased for.
Like mike said small community we all jump on the same stuff well except for me as of late need a dam job before i can start that again.

Quoted from axe

Teehee!

Theres a candy cab floating around Kijij right now, and i am all "candy crazy"  But the guy wants $750 for an astro city.  I might pay up to $500 for it, but i am not going to send the offer, since i think it would be insulting to him/her.  I'll wait.  if the price lowers to my "safe range" I'll bite, if it doesn't then it was never meant to be.

It must all be relative though, as I don't see offering $500 for something that I wouldn't pay $250 for as lowballing....    But really, offering $500 for an asking price of $750 is an offer, it's not low balling.  Callinging them and telling them it's not worht $500 and then offering $250.  That's lowballing.

I should probably be willing to email the guy about the candy cab... but i wait because I am all non confrontational....

Quoted Text

Then why did you mention she was Indian  

Because it is much more accepted in some cultures to throw extreme lowballs. Asia the Middle East, and most third world countries for example.  I believe that once a person becomes more "Canadianised" they tend to better understand what is looked at as offensive in our culture. On the other hand some people just dont give a crap and don't really  care who they offend.  I am not offended that they undervalue my goods, but that they waste my time and think they can beat me so low. There is such a thing as tact too.

Quoted Text

The reason I set my threshold there is I can probably sell the machine if I don't like it for what I have in it.

I am all about that too but I think that as a hobby, I hope to keep my losses to a minimum but at the same time if I want a machine and I pay a bit more for it I can expect it might possibly sell for a bit less later.

Quoted from wbradley

Because it is much more accepted in some cultures to throw extreme lowballs. Asia the Middle East, and most third world countries for example.  I believe that once a person becomes more "Canadianised" they tend to better understand what is looked at as offensive in our culture...

Oh man. When I was in Egypt last year, haggling with the local shop owners was pretty fun. Even the kids on the street selling bookmarks were great. They'd say "$5" (for a crappy fake papyrus bookmark), I'd say "$1" (it probably cost 5 cents to produce). The kid would act all insulted and walk away. I continued to sit there chatting with some people then surprise, he comes back a few minutes later "$4". To make a long story short, I eventually got the crummy thing for $1. But I didn't pay for the bookmark, I paid for this kid's oscar worthy performance.

Strangely enough, my wife hated to barter. Even weirder, when she tried, none of the shop owners would budge! It was really weird. Either they detected that she was 'soft' (but she would walk away) or it's just not customary to barter with women there, I dunno.

Hmmm, I don't usually Barter, but you guys just reminded me I did recently, when I renegotiated my "services" with Rogers. I got my money's worth on that 30 minute call .

Quoted from jonny_eh

Strangely enough, my wife hated to barter. Even weirder, when she tried, none of the shop owners would budge! It was really weird. Either they detected that she was 'soft' (but she would walk away) or it's just not customary to barter with women there, I dunno.

A Woman's words have little to no value in that part of the world!

I don't know about it being so much Canadianized. I used to work with various suppliers and manufacturers on discounts. If you weren't buying at least as well as your competitor you weren't even in the running for contracts. Industry discount were less 50% let's say for the volumes we were moving and we were discounting off retail to be competitive. Often not getting an additional 10% or 15% off was the difference between being profitable on the job and losing money when your talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment.

I considered negotiating very Canadian. In fact it was a key aspect of being successful in business. You get what you negotiate.

Rolling over and playing dead for what the going rate was just wouldn't cut it.

Quoted from necro_nemesis

I considered negotiating very Canadian. In fact it was a key aspect of being successful in business. You get what you negotiate.

Rolling over and playing dead for what the going rate was just wouldn't cut it.

Very true.  And that's why anyone who habitually barters like their life depends upon it seems so out of place in this hobby.  We all like a "deal", but unless you are attempting to significantly pad your income through this hobby, you have to keep things in perspective.   Some people get off on the thrill of brow-beating a vendor into submission. That type of misdirected egotism detracts from the general goodwill and enjoyment of the hobby.

Yeah, I used the word 'hobby' a lot.  Sorry.

I completely agree with medvet.  If I am interested in a game I tend to know what I am willing to pay depending on the condition, etc.  I hate negotiating as well.  If this price is not to my liking I will just walk away and thank the person for their time.  I have yet to sell a pin so I can't comment on being at the other end of the deal.  I may be looking at selling my BK in the future (please no PMs for now   ) so I will get a taste for this soon enough.  

Quoted from mrniceguy

Yeah, I used the word 'hobby' a lot.  Sorry.

Which is why I am fine with the going rate if I want something. Goes back to my previous statement of my concern is to be able to exit for what I have in should I not keep the game. I am not overjoyed with losing wheel burrows full of money so just try to negotiate to keep things on an even keel.

Many times it's putting a value on the condition of what you see. There are offsets to fix issues without a doubt. This can get subjective since the seller often looks at the glass being half full or isn't as fussy as you are. If your going to have to pump in hundreds to fix issues that the sellers rose coloured glasses don't see you may have to bring that up in the negotiation. It's called being realistic. It may piss the seller off but usually I start out with this statement when someone is unrealistic about what they have. "Let me be brutally honest" and that really is nothing more than being just that.

If they take offense to stating the obvious, so be it. Goes back to my previous statement, never take anything personally in negotiations.

Good thread.

I have two simple rules.

When buying I do my homework and set a limit at what I am comfortable with paying.  I have no problem paying more for a pin/vid that I know I will really enjoy.  I also ask the seller of the item the following "Since it is your item, what is your best price" ?  If I like it I buy it if not I thank the person for their time and move on.

When selling I price the item fairly or what I would be willing to pay for it. I also show the buyer all the good points and all the bad.  

I simply prefer all my game playing with machines not people.

After all at the end of the day I have to look at myself in the mirror.

Glen-

You are referring to business purchasing which is a whole different story.  Also different industries have different practices.

My wife was a purchaser for Chapters/Indigo for years and another chain previously. Believe it or not, she says it was not about beating down the price according to her. They want to retain a good relationship with vendors. If pricing was not competitive, they would tell their vendor so it can either be addressed or they can see what the difference is.  Larger companies will quickly run out of options if all they do is try to beat the vendor down. Trade shows and vendors reps make sure existing vendors are kept reasonably honest with their pricing.

Wal-Mart might be able to buy for less, but look at the numbers they are able to generate.

IMHO the third-world style of bargaining is not my style. Many people I know would be embarassed to deal that way, although if too much it can be to their detriment also.  I also agree with niceguy Glen that trying to beat someone up on price for sport/ego is another way to lose a popularity contest.

We're getting off topic

The topic is lowballing.

The comment was made about haggling being not Canadian the point I made is in my view it is. Maybe not in the context of pinball so much but still a fact.

On negotiations, I suggest with the numerous project machines, dead, beat whatever that I have bought and resurrected the price cannot be cast in stone. You have to add up the cost of the project and throw a number on it. It's not like pulling your price guide for an average condition working machine. If your going to dig into this hobby deep and do this stuff i.e. restore a POS you need to roll your sleeves up and negotiate period. Walking by sellers in a flea market like your walking through the local mall isn't going to work. They throw a number on it for a pile of parts. You do the math and try and equate that price to a value. Then you discuss or you simply pay if the price is right. It's not getting something for nothing. It's getting something for what it's truly worth to you and your project. If the two happen to meet in the middle your moving forward.

If you want to window shop for finished games, pull out your price guide and offer that if you want it. Don't offer way less, then your lowballing.

I have purchased 10 machines over 12 months and a myriad of pinball parts, etc... and I can say that everyone in this community has been fair with their pricing. I also did my homework in advance and made sure that a reasonable offer was always presented. My experience has been positive, fair and I am glad that I am participating in this hobby. Everyone I meet is full of info, some are full of other stuff  , but nobody has tried to stiff me and that is the way I will conduct business.

Quoted from Ricker

I have purchased 10 machines over 12 months and a myriad of pinball parts, etc... and I can say that everyone in this community has been fair with their pricing. I also did my homework in advance and made sure that a reasonable offer was always presented. My experience has been positive, fair and I am glad that I am participating in this hobby. Everyone I meet is full of info, some are full of other stuff  , but nobody has tried to stiff me and that is the way I will conduct business.

yep.   just cause my prices are high on kijiji it doesn't mean they are that price for maaca members.  as  you know now from buying two different machines off me.
   also most of the ones i had for sale as of late, have been sold to maaca members.  a couple to others that were just looking for christmas presents and i still dropped the price or delivered for free without being asked.  
  when i buy i rarely try to haggle.  i usally pay the askingn price if i feel that is what the machine is worth to me.  

Quoted from gmaranda

If you ask for a fair price for a fair product you will sell but I am more insulted by people that search suckers that don't know the price of things and get sucked in then a guy who lowballs.  You are right about making a name for yourself but again if you can't handle the pressure don't play with the big boys.

So lowballing a guy that is highballing is wrong?  Don't get me wrong, if you know the guy is in a financial bind and you lowball because of that you are abusing a situation and frankly I don't want to know because I can't stand you as a person..........But if you get insulted by lowballing then you should not be in any kind of business because if I sell something $1000 and you offer $500 I will laugh a bit and tell you No and either counter offer or wait.

Lowballing is highly suggestive and frankly if you lowball me....go ahead I find it entertaining not insulting.  What insults me is abusing people.

My two cents

Gilles

I ' m not good at restoring or fixing games . As a matter of fact , i ' ll most likely make it worst if i try and do it myself . So , when i see a game i like and can afford it , i ' ll get in touch with the seller and pay the asking price . I ' ll most likely ask if the price is firm , wich is normal .

It will have to be "plug and play" since i ' m such a foot when it comes to fixing it . But , i may hit on a good title in a mediocre state , drag it out of its dusty basement and sell it AS IS for half the value price . Then , somewhere along the road , i may end up buying it back for the asking price , RESTORED , "plug and play" ...

my 2 cents ...

BTW , my flash gordon is still up for sale in the classifieds . Don ' t be afraid to LOWBALL me . At worst , i ' ll turn your offer down ...