Ok, as promised in my other post ,
here is my first stab at putting together some kind
of proposal for organizing a Pin and Vid "Shipping Co-op".

I will no doubt miss some logistical aspect or other,
so feel free to add your input.  

Collectively, the more people buy into this concept,
the more successful it's likely to be

[NB.   This is a LOOOONG post, so get comfortable... ]



The "Corridor"
==============

Initially, I will only focus on the Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto "corridor",
but this can be expanded to an even larger area later on if warranted.

For the purpose of cost and planning,
I have devised the concept of a "Segment" of travel
which roughly equates to 200KM one-way.

As such,  Montreal-Ottawa would be considered ONE "Segment"
and Ottawa-Toronto would be TWO "Segments".

[ I haven't considered a direct Montreal-Toronto route
since this would be a LONG drive, and in most cases,
I'm guessing there would be a pick-up or drop-off in Ottawa anyways.
That means,that anyone wanting to ship to MTl-Tor, would "likely" transit via Ottawa,
although, like everything else, this is not set in stone  ]

The concept of "Segments" is used to have common unit when measuring cost
between various cities.

As a rule, a driver would only be expected to drive ONE segment
so that the demands on his/her time be more reasonable.
(...remember, a segment is 200KM EACH way, that means about 4hrs of driving
for a return trip, plus loading and unloading time ).

The goal is to be able to do a return run in half a day,
instead of "wasting" an entire day on the road .


COSTS
=====

( This is the key section... )

Assuming a segment is 200KM each way, or 400KM in total,
and that the average "towing" vehicle (ie. bigger 6 Cyl engine )
towing a 1500lbs trailer get about 6L/100Km, at $1/L,
that works out to "roughly" $70 for gas (round trip)
(NB. This is a rough approximation; the actual amount could be more or less,
but I need to start somewhere...and besides,
this doesn't even count wear and tear on the vehicle )

A closed-top U-haul trailer rental is less than $30 (taxes in) for 24hr.

So that works out to about $100 for pure transportation cost PER SEGMENT.

If we then include a $50 "salary" to the driver,
the total cost for the delivery is about $150.

[ NB. the concept of "salary" is to encourage people to make trips.
Let's face it, getting a trailer, loading/unloading it and 4-5hr of driving
is not a pleasure trip. Getting a token amount for your troubles lessens the pain.
If $50 proves to be too low, we can adjust, but that increases costs... ]

If we get 3 machines in one trip, that works out to $50 each,
if we get 6, that's $25 each  !!!       (...again, PER SEGMENT)


Better yet, this is cummulative for BOTH directions.
ie. If we have 2 machines in Ottawa going to Montreal
and 2 machines in Montreal going to Ottawa, that counts as 4 Machines
and the cost would be about $40 each.

To make this works, we should try to plan trips when we have
at least 3 machine to pick-up or drop off.
If we assume a "segment" cost to be about $150, the more stuff we can
transport at once, the cheaper it becomes per item.
(ie. Shipping 6 mahicnes at once would work out to less cost per machine
than shipping 3 )

The more machines we can plan for one trip, the lower the cost is for all

It would get a little tricker for the Ottawa-Toronto haul since
this would be 2 segments and, in a perfect world, have two drivers
meet half-way. As such the cost of shipping from Ottawa-Toronto
would be "somewhere" around double the price of Mtl-Ott.

[NB. If someone want to drive the entire Ott-Tor trip, that would count
as TWO segments and gas and "salary" allotments would be doubled.
ie. $140 for gas, $100 for "Salary" and still $30 for trailer since
that cost is fixed regardless of distance ]

Just to throw some numbers around, here are some PROPOSED fees
to charge for various trips.  Remember the cost is directly related
to the number of machines being transported.

PINS/VIDS
Mtl-Ott : $30-40  (assumes 4-5 machines per trip)
Ott-Tor : $50-60  (assumes 5-6 machines per trip)
Mtl-Tor (via Ottawa) : $70-80 ( assumes 5-6 machines per trip )


PARTS/PCB's (all destinations)
$ 3 - $5  for PCB (max $20 regardless of qty),
$10 Bigger parts (Playfields, Monitors, Control Panels, boxed good, etc..)


NB: The actual cost would be determined at the actual time of shipping.
Since the cost is directly related to how many games get shipped at once,
a "small" load will cost more per machine than a "big" load .

If we assume a "segment" cost of $150, then it simply becomes a matter
of dividing this cost per items shipped.  I have devised a fair formula
for determining this, but will share that later so as to not overwhelm
people with this post.



Pick-up / Drop off points
=========================

The other element to make this work is a SINGLE pick-up/drop-off point per city.
(...it high-tech talk, we call that a "HUB" Location )

There is no way someone coming from Montreal will make 3-4 door-to-door
deliveries in Ottawa.

If we assume ONE "hub" in each city,
then anyone local in those city looking to ship a game would be responsible
for getting their games to that hub location.

A Hub location "may" change from one trip to the next,
as long as there is ONLY one per trip.

For instance we could have an EASTERN Ottawa Hub a trip to Montreal,
and then a WESTERN Ottawa Hub for a trip to Toronto.

Hub Locations should "preferably" be located within easy access of major highways.
(...you don't want to be driving a trailer full of games down Ste-Catherine,
Younge or Wellington St. ! )

For instance, my house is right off an exit from the 417 HWY (Ottawa)
in the East of the city en route to MTL, and would be a good candidate for a Hub.
(unlike, say, SpaceCadet28, who is a "tad" out of the way...)

[NB. Hub locations don't necessarily have to be where the driver lives,
( although that makes things a bit easier). For instance, my house could
serve as a hub, but Marty might be the driver since he's always going
to Montreal for games anyways !  ]

As for co-ordinating pick-ups and drop-offs, I would think that once
we schedule a trip,  we would then inform everyone wanting to ship something
to bring their goods to the Hub site the day before.

For instance, if I decide to make a Ott-Mtl trip on the Sat morning at 10:00am,
I would let anyone in Ottawa know to bring their stuff on the Friday night
or early on the Saturday. Similarly, assuming I'm driving to Montreal,
I'd let anyone shipping back to Ottawa (or receiving something from Ottawa)
be be at the MTl hub location at the expected arrival time .

Of course, there is obvioulsy alot of freedom on what the driver wants to do.
If someone can not bring a game to the hub location but can work-out a
pick-up with the driver, that's all good too.

The idea here is not to be "restrictive" but to make things as easy
as possible for the driver.  If extra arrangements can be worked out,
hey, all the better.


Scheduling Logistics
====================

This is the tricky part : how to plan deliveries...

As I see it, the easiest way to do this is to have a "Shipping Queue"
where people just post a delivery request. (I can act as co-ordinator for this ).

We could potentially have this Queue available on-line on the MAACA site
so that everyone can see what's waiting for delivery.

When the Queue has enough stuff to warrant a trip, we find a driver who
is willing/available to go, and then schedule a date.

An EXAMPLE of the queue could be something like:

Destination : Toronto
=====================
Sparky ( from MTL) : Item = Video Cabinet
Steph (from Ott) : Item = Playfield
Mindstorm88 (from MTL) : Item = Ms.Pac Cabinet

Destination : Ottawa
====================
Chris (from Tor ) : Item = Video Supplies
JD3 (From MTL ) : Item = Gottlieb Trophy


Destination : Montral
=======================
Steph (from Ott) :  Item = Robotron Cab
Frosken (From Ott) : Item = City Slickers Pin
Dave (from Tor) : Item = Defender cocktail


[ I actually have a grid-like idea in mind, but you get gyst of it ]


Payment
=======

Once a trip has been scheduled, and the cost per item has been determined,
each person shipping an item would pay his share to the driver.
(...which should, in theory, total about $150 for the driver ).

NB. "Usually" it's the buyer who ultimately pays for the shipping,
so like "in the real world", the seller would charge the buyer
with the pre-determined shipping cost, the buyer pays the seller,
and the seller (who is the one with the goods) pays the driver.  Simple no ?  

Again, there is room for flexibility here.  If a buyer, seller and driver
can work out their own arrangement, that's obviously fine too.
(...for instance, say I'm buying a game in MTL and the trip is Ott-MTL-Ott.
I could give the driver the money for the ENTIRE purchase price and the
driver then gives that to seller ( minus shipping fees) once in MTL,
loads-up the game, and brings it back )


Final Word
==========

I realize this is probably the longest post ever recorded on MAACA,
and it is ALOT to digest.  I've been toying with this idea for a few weeks now
and it took me over 3 hrs to write this post.

Even then, I'm sure I've forgotten alot of things
and there are probably lots of questions.

The ultimate goal is to find an inexpensive way to help the collecting
community to ship games, and to justly reward the people who undertake
the task of shipping these games.  

And heck, why stop at games ? if someone wants to ship a washing machine
to Toronto, why not ?  It just lowers the cost of shipping for everyone else.

Of course, there are other issues, such as the question of insurance.
(ie. what happens if something gets damaged ? ), but I'm sure collectively,
we can work all these things out.

The next step is for me and MAACA web guys to find a way
to have a "Shipping Queue",  and see how that works out.

Stay tuned....

Thoughts ? Comments ?

Cheers,
Steph
Ottawa

The only concern (which was listed before) is the 'size' of the 'shipment'... 3-4 pinballs isn't that bad, 5-6, then in my book, you're pushing it...unless your name is 'spacecadet28'...

Again, there is a fine line between 'convenience' and 'risk'...you can call me a 'insert cat picture', but I rather spend more coin and/or my own time to pick up a $1500 pinball machine than to pay little for a 'risky' (in my view) SUPER LOAD of 6 pins...unless it's in an adequate Cube van or COVERED 'certified' trailer.

My $0.02

Frosken...

Well you've obviously thought this out and have a pretty decent plan.  Wow!

For info, I rented a U-Haul about 1 month ago and the insurance (from U-haul) covers CONTENTS as well as the trailer in case of accident.  Therefore NO PERSONAL TRAILERS.  U-HAUL COVERED TRAILERS ONLY - preferably the 5 X 8 because it's high enough to hold arcade games (6').

Packing is the responsibility of the sender.  i.e.  if you drop off a game at the hub and your packing sucks and the game gets damaged, well...  it's the sender's fault.  If it's well packed/padded then there should be no problem.  Don't expect the driver or the poor sap who's house we're using as a hub to pack your game for you.

Also, it has to be clear that the driver is just that..  a driver..  as in don't shoot the messenger (driver in this case)..  This is especially important in situations where guys buy games without seing them first..  It's not the driver's fault or problem if you don't like the condition of the game and the driver can't wait around for hours while you sort it out with the seller on the phone.  Shipments are from point A to point B..  PERIOD.  Work out your issues later.

I think we should have this going pretty soon!!!  Great initiative and work on Steph's part!

Mike

Good reply Mike, we're thinking the same way...we must be brothers or something!  

Yep..  I was thinking no Spacecadet thing...  8 pins in a light trailer.  No offense Marty!

Mike

Quoted from frosken

The only concern (which was listed before) is the 'size' of the 'shipment'... 3-4 pinballs isn't that bad, 5-6, then in my book, you're pushing it...
...unless it's in an adequate Cube van or COVERED 'certified' trailer.

Yes, that was my intention, closed-top or covered trailers only.
The safety of games is VERY important. I don't want anything exposed to the elements.

I figure a 5x8 covered U-Haul trailer "should" be able to accommodate 6 pins.
If not, a 5x10 or 6x12 is only $29.99+tax

As much as I can appreciate people wanting to possibly use their own trailers,
I think it's best to pay a bit of money to get a proper trailer.
(...besides, I include the cost of that as part of the shipping fees )

The only glitch is that all trailers appear to only be 5' high,
so a video U/R might have to go on it's back or side.
(...again, moving blankets could be used to protect against scratches )

Like I said, many things to think about,
but nothing that can't be worked out.

Cheers,
Steph

So are you thinking about a sign up board?  People post what they need shipped and people can post when they are travelling?  There might be a difference in cost if someone is coming down to a location near you anyway and have space for one machine.  A public board might help put people in touch for those "one-off" trips.  It might also let people know of those out of the way trips.

I also suggest to possible advertise this beyond MAACA.

Quoted from Monkeybug

So are you thinking about a sign up board?  People post what they need shipped and people can post when they are travelling?  There might be a difference in cost if someone is coming down to a location near you anyway and have space for one machine.  A public board might help put people in touch for those "one-off" trips.  

That's always an alternative, but my proposal was geared more to
"planned" trips for multiple items from multiple people.

I'm sure many people will continue to move their own machines,
but for people who don't want to drive all day (or don't have the means
to transport a big game ), this proposal gets several people together
to optimize shipping.  Hence the concept of "co-op " .

My idea (...which I'm fine-tuning as we speak...), is to have an on-going
"queue" of items to ship. When enough items are in the queue to warrant
a trip, we then find a driver and schedule the trip.

I realize I might be making this more complicated than it has to be,
(ie.segments, hubs, etc...) but I'm trying to find a system that's fair
and equitable for all, as well as being cost-effective.

But hey, if you can find someone to move a game for you, go for it !  

Cheers,
Steph

Quoted from Steph

Initially, I will only focus on the Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto "corridor",
but this can be expanded to an even larger area later on if warranted.

Hey sounds great...
I'm in Ontario, how long before you expand this far?  

Adam

Monkeybug

I agree a joint "MAACA-CGCC shipping co-op" would be VERY VERY VERY interesting!  

Frosken

what ever you guys figure out, we will support it and do what we can to help make it work.

Same here!!!

I can also offer my place as a hub... I actually have a great location. I live 5 minutes from highway 40 from Ottawa (417) and highway 20 from Toronto (401). I can fit 3-4 games in my backyard shed easy. I am 1:30 from Ottawa, and 45 minutes from downtown Montreal.

Damnit... if only I had enough $$$ to build that garage in my yard... would be even better. I could actually store games in a temperature controlled environment, but alas...

Sparky