This was my 7th order from PBR but, this time, the mailman demanded $22.35 - GST/HST +$5 'handling fee'. So I ended up paying over $50 for delivery of $130 worth of parts. That stings.

Consider yourself lucky, out of about 20 orders over the years, I think I MISSED the charges 1 time.

The $5 handling fee is their brokerage charge. If it was sent through UPS or FedEx, that charge would be $30+, so be thankful it's only $5.

As for the taxes, technically anything over $20 is supposed to be assessed and charged tax by Canada Customs, so if you haven't had to pay in the past, you got lucky.

1 out of 7 ain't bad.

Geez, I guess I have been lucky ... but I'm still annoyed.

Quoted from cooke

As for the taxes, technically anything over $20 is supposed to be assessed and charged tax by Canada Customs, so if you haven't had to pay in the past, you got lucky.

1 out of 7 ain't bad.

Exactly.  When people clear these types of shipments at the border themselves, there is a decent chance they will have to pay taxes.  Getting it through the mail should be no different.  

If you compare the cost to order from say, Pinballife to Canada vs ordering from them to ship to another state, there is a huge difference.

You have 13% + $5 + about $26 shipping average vs about $10, and also the banks service charge on the currency conversion. An order that cost me about $180.00 probably was about $136.00 to a US customer buying out of state (in CDN$)

For people that travel cross border frequently or live near the border, it could actually pay to get a US mailbox if they spend enough. I doubt customs would sieze unpackaged pinball parts sitting is a toolbox in your trunk.

It's happened to me twice. Boxes were all cut up.

I will be taking RAB's offer from now on and going through Starburst for PBR orders.

Quoted from OTTOgd

Geez, I guess I have been lucky ... but I'm still annoyed.

You must be really lucky, because I have been charged everytime I have ordered from the US. As stated unless it is under $20, you should be charged.

Quoted from Sparky

It's happened to me twice. Boxes were all cut up.

I will be taking RAB's offer from now on and going through Starburst for PBR orders.

I am considering the same thing

Quoted from wbradley

If you compare the cost to order from say, Pinballife to Canada vs ordering from them to ship to another state, there is a huge difference.

You have 13% + $5 + about $26 shipping average vs about $10, and also the banks service charge on the currency conversion. An order that cost me about $180.00 probably was about $136.00 to a US customer buying out of state (in CDN$)

For people that travel cross border frequently or live near the border, it could actually pay to get a US mailbox if they spend enough. I doubt customs would sieze unpackaged pinball parts sitting is a toolbox in your trunk.

I agree with everything here except maybe the last sentence.  CCRA is getting a little more stringent in collecting taxes / duties and it wouldn't surprise me one bit to find out that someone got there car seized at the border for undeclared pinball parts.   Rusty old parts thrown into a box or sitting inside a machine is one thing, but a bag full of new bumper caps, rubbers and targets is quite another.  For the 15% tax, I wouldn't even risk not declaring something.  And that's without even entering into the ethical debate over whether the government deserves the taxes.  It's strictly to avoid being detained at the border for an hour or worse.

I've been pretty lucky myself.. that being said, we all get nailed once in a while.  It's unfortunate, but it happens to all of us.  Death and Taxes.. both random, both inevitable.  

quote]  And that's without even entering into the ethical debate over whether the government deserves the taxes. [/quote]

Then there's the issue that we are taxed on used, American made pinball machines crossing the border despite NAFTA or anything else.

Don't get me wrong, I am self employed and I pay tax on every dollar I earn, without exception. Obviously it costs money to run a clean, civilized country. It just sucks when Joe Blow over the border ends up paying about 1/3 less than I do for the same stuff.

I got nailed for the first tim ethis week too! They must be on the Anti-Pinball crusade. Cost me $50 on a $300 order from K's Arcade

Quoted from OTTOgd

Geez, I guess I have been lucky ... but I'm still annoyed.

Think about the law of averages.  That's less than $1 brokerage fee per box!

Quoted from Monkeybug

Think about the law of averages.  That's less than $1 brokerage fee per box!

That's another point.. it's better to think positively, and consider all the money you've saved on your other shipments  

wbradly hits on a good point. I just recently received a shipment from France. For a $350.00 purchase I paid roughly 50 bucks shipping and exactly $50 bucks customs. When you crunch the numbers I think it may be cheaper to not buy across the border. It's definitely is no more expensive; it's too bad that America has all the pinball parts.

I order allot of stuff (My wife says too much ).  Sometimes it gets thru and sometimes you get it with an extra charge.  I look at it as I have to pay every time and just pay it when it arrives.  If it arrives and there is no charge I count it as a lucky break.  I usually do not order it from places that ship it UPS (Crooks).  I ordered my car parts thru a distributer when possible so you don't have to worry about shipping, duty etc... But you can’t do it so easily for pinball parts

I have to weigh in on this topic, and believe me I am "fat with information" concerning this mess of customs & excise, currency exchange, shipping & handling fees, brokerage fees, & finally fees associated with making a payment to the supplier.

There are several ways to justify (i.e. crunch) these numbers, and I won't even bother explaining how I do it when I feel that I have been "stung" personally. But I can offer this to the MAACA members asking themselves how to avoid the annoyance of feeling that someone you can't even have your say with, somehow has their hand in your pocket and they can't even hear you say - "I refuse to pay these extra charges for my small personal order." The feeling of not having control over the amount you agreed to pay for something is what causes the majority of the frustration I think.

The last couple of days have been interesting at work to say the least. I assembled an order for PBR to fill, mainly for regularly stocked parts and for a few regular clients, when I began getting MAACA members calling and dropping in to place orders and checking prices. I will outline two examples of when to order through Starburst and when not to and why.

1) One member called me and ordered a specific coil with a part number and description, short and sweet. I immediately added it to the P.O., gave him the selling price from Starburst, he agreed and I wrote his phone number next to the item. PBR sells the coil for $6.93 (USD), Starburst re-sells it for $ 8.75(CAD). In this case, or even with one or two more parts, the member saves money and has the convenience of not doing all the leg work (see above if you forgot about how Steve likes to get paid).

2) Another member called me this morning with a long list of parts to get from PBR, with some parts that I already stock from different suppliers, ex: steel balls, rubber rings, lamps etc. Obviously I can't spend a whole lot of time creating new part numbers in the system when the same item already exists under another tag. I quoted him on the parts that I didn't have, but the total was high, around $230.00. The actual cost at PBR was about $153.xx. So if he orders direct, gets his 10% off for orders over 100 bucks, and if he doesn't get taxed at customs, and ships by mail and if it is a light order in weight, he will pay less. Lots of "ifs", but if he plans it  properly, and asks Steve to ship by mail in a flat package, it may be worth the chance.

So if you want a part or two from this supplier I will be happy to help you out, and "shoot the mess" with you briefly about how great pinball is, and other things which interest us. Building local business relationships has got to be worth a hell of alot more than a few bucks you didn't pay by chance when the post office (forget UPS) gets too lazy or careless to tax and\or do their brokerage "sting and screw" dance on a small personal order.  

robert@starburstcoin.com

Quoted from RAB

and asks Steve to ship by mail in a flat package, it may be worth the chance.

    DON'T!!

Steve always ship the proper,cheaper way.  He's the BEST.

Quoted from Mrhide

    DON'T!!

Steve always ship the proper,cheaper way.  He's the BEST.

Yeah, don't bother Steve with details, he is a real pro and has been at this pinball thing for well over 25 years, which, you can imagine will make even the nicest people turn cranky from dealing with so many details and pinheads over time. Not everyone in this hobby is a bright silver ball, - there are some really disagreeable people who have very few positive things to say or contribute, even on this forum.  

Quoted from RAB

... when the post office (forget UPS) gets too lazy or careless to tax and\or do their brokerage "sting and screw" dance on a small personal order.  

Far be it from me to defend the Post Office (actually, it's Canada Customs... not the Post Office) but it's not really a "sting and screw" dance. It's taxes and a small brokerage fee. Not really anything to be surprised about here. When you buy goods at the store down the street, you pay tax (and, indirectly, a brokerage fee on items that were manufactured outside the country). When you import goods into the country, you're also supposed to pay tax on those goods. It's pretty standard stuff and shouldn't be a shock to anyone -- in fact, you should COUNT on it. If, on occasion, your package makes it through the border without getting assessed tax, good for you.

I don't think Canada Post or Canada Customs is out to "screw" anyone. Again, just be thankful you didn't have to deal with UPS or FedEx and their *ridiculous* brokerage fees. But that's another story...

And further be thankful that the items were made in the USA. Otherwise you might have to pay "duty"as well. Taxes/brokerage fees are not "duty" and the two should not be confused.

Quoted from cooke

Far be it from me to defend the Post Office (actually, it's Canada Customs... not the Post Office) but it's not really a "sting and screw" dance. It's taxes and a small brokerage fee. Not really anything to be surprised about here. When you buy goods at the store down the street, you pay tax (and, indirectly, a brokerage fee on items that were manufactured outside the country). When you import goods into the country, you're also supposed to pay tax on those goods. It's pretty standard stuff and shouldn't be a shock to anyone -- in fact, you should COUNT on it. If, on occasion, your package makes it through the border without getting assessed tax, good for you.

I strongly believe & agree that some kind of responsible and accountable authority should collect taxes and redistribute the money in order to run the closest possible thing to a fair and just society in the measure of what our human limitations can allow. The "sting and screw" feeling, Corey, I should have specified earlier, comes from sometimes paying and sometimes not. Yeah, it is a lucky a** feeling not to pay that 15% occasionally, but why does it happen sometimes and sometimes not. People hear about it and feel cheated. We should be able to expect some kind of consistancy from our goverment agencies in order for people not to feel bad when they do pay. And we also know that alot of us feel we are paying our share while others more fortuneate than us don`t "seem" to be. Hence, that seemingly unintentional "sting & screw" feeling we get when we are asked to pay more.

If someone buys a single rubber ring at the parts counter, I need to do up an invoice for inventory purposes and so as to direct the monies, however small, into the right accounts. The taxes get charged automatically, why is that so difficult to do with goods crossing the border, don`t they have bigger computers and more people working than at Starburst ?

Quoted from RAB

1) One member called me and ordered a specific coil with a part number and description, short and sweet. I immediately added it to the P.O., gave him the selling price from Starburst, he agreed and I wrote his phone number next to the item. PBR sells the coil for $6.93 (USD), Starburst re-sells it for $ 8.75(CAD). In this case, or even with one or two more parts, the member saves money and has the convenience of not doing all the leg work (see above if you forgot about how Steve likes to get paid).


robert@starburstcoin.com

Thanks for giving a example of the cost for a PBR part, good price! Sometime I make bigger order with PBR to justify shipping cost... now I just need a Starburst on the south shore

Quoted from Hyann

Thanks for giving a example of the cost for a PBR part, good price! Sometime I make bigger order with PBR to justify shipping cost... now I just need a Starburst on the south shore

Yeah, I use to that too years ago when I was collecting, always pumped it up to get that 10% discount at 100, only to pay that 15% when it got delivered by Canada Post, it seemed that under 100 back then it would just be waiting at my door with no extra charge, so basically trading "4 trente sous pour une piastre" as they say.

Je suis a Longueuil chaque fin de semaine Hyann, si tu passes a mon atelier je peux toujours ammener ce que tu as commande avec une facture et avec des taxes dessus en plus !

Quoted Text

Then there's the issue that we are taxed on used, American made pinball machines crossing the border despite NAFTA or anything else.

You're taxed as you would be taxes purchasing while within canada as well. (yes, you are supposed to pay sales tax on used purchases too..).

Nafta has NOTHING to do with tax, it only has to do with Duty.  Duty != tax.
Duty is used to bring the goods up to par with a Canadian manufacturer producing the same product.  

To chime in on this one, $5 for brokerage is cheap.  Check out UPS, Fedex, or other Brokers - you won't get it for $5.00.  If your bringing in a pinball machine and can get it for under $100  in brokerage RUN, don't walk to that broker. (I have phone numbers of cheap brokers that I recommend.  No I will not be your broker.)

The people who handle Canada Post packages for customs inspection have a system for picking out packages.  Of the 40,000,000 packages per day that are handled by Canada post, they are targeting just you. That's why you got nailed.  Not luck of the draw or anything like that.

But remember - you do have the choice to be your own broker, and fight for that $5.  
Just ask canada post to hold up *every* package of yours, so you can drive to the post office, pick up the manifest, take it to customs, pay the PST/GST, fax it to Canada post and have them deliver.  

Rather then 'getting nailed'  think of the 6 times you imported you didn't have to pay anything.  Amortize it over all the packages.

And be thankful - I don't get *anything* free into the country. I pay every time.

Quoted from Subpacket

The people who handle Canada Post packages for customs inspection have a system for picking out packages.  Of the 40,000,000 packages per day that are handled by Canada post, they are targeting just you. That's why you got nailed.  Not luck of the draw or anything like that.

Think of it 40 million X $5.00 a day, and then think of all the good things the Canadian government could do with that money for our country. Mother of god, that is 200 million dollars a day if you take what Subpacket says as true.

40,000,000 included domestic.  The $5 actually goes to Livingston. They are the customs broker that was awarded the contract. $5 per randomly selected package. After you add in the support staff for it, its not that lucrative.