Took the plunge on a machine that I've been looking for and am having it shipped NAVL from Texas to Champlain NY where I will be picking it up when it arrives and driving it over. Any suggestions on how to reduce the GST PST costs? If at all, I will have to pay . Can I show an invoice of a lower amount ? Drive across a smaller border crossing ? Guess it all depends on the customs officer. At least there is no duty as the machine was made in the USA
No one likes to pay taxes, however staying honest pays in the end. Present the real invoice and the real amount to the customs agent and pay the applicable GST/PST...
Be honest, don't hide anything and if it wasn't a super expensive machine, they will probably just wave you through. I have only had to pay on one machine out of the probably 2 dozen I have brought back, and that was my ToM because of the value involved. If you try to deceive them and get caught you *will* forfeit the machine, and possibly anything else the want to take, like your vehicle. Don't be stupid.
Currently Owning: Vids- Road Blasters, Road Runner, Joust, Golden Tee 2005 Pins- Back to the Future, Theatre of Magic, Joker Poker, Grand Tour, Hyperball
Previously Owned: Vids- Far too many to list Pins- High Speedx2, The Shadow, Mystic.
A lot of these guys have seen many pinball machines crossing the border. They know pretty much the value. Some apparently even went on the web to check prices, such as eBay transaction, dealer pricing, etc.
There are two legal potential ways to save cdn taxes while crossing the border, as far as I know: - stay over more than 48 hrs in the US before crossing back. You can claim $400 cdn deduction; - cross over in a different province than your province of residence. Should save the PST I believe.
Make sure you have a real receipt (with the real paid value) to show the customs officer.
Bonne chance ! - Sylvain.
Looking for 1966 Bally Capersville, 1967 Bally The Wiggler, 1981 Stern Viper, 1986 Pinstar Gamatron, 1986 Williams Grand Lizard, 1991 Williams Bride of Pinbot, and a few others. Cash or some trades available. Could also repair a machine of yours +/-$ if needed, in exchange for one machine on my want list, non-working/unshopped welcome!
The advice you have gotten so far is pretty much bang on. Probably won't save you any money to stay in a motel for two nights just to get $400 knocked off the total value of goods, but you could certainly make it a "mini-vacation" and remind yourself that you are knocking about $60 off the cost of bringing the machine back. Older pins with values around $500 can often be brought back free of charge, since most customs people don't sweat the old, cheap machines too much. If you are buying a $4000 Circus Voltaire or even a $1500 Jurassic Park, you can expect to pay to bring it back.
Something that hasn't been mentioned yet is that they will charge you GST and PST on the NAVL costs as well ! That blows my mind, but they consider any costs you incur to get the machine across the border as part of the machine's value. So assuming a $350 -$400 NAVL charge, you can expect another $60 at the border.
I guess the one way you could save $$ is to not mention the shipping cost. They probably won't ask you how you got it...they'll just look at your invoice. But really, why bother ? When you think about it, if the value of the machine is high enough for you to pay GST/PST, then you shouldn't bother trying to cheap out on the taxes. You'll also breathe easier as you cross the border...definitely worth it.
What if you bring a machine over the boarder to trade for another machine of equal value (give or take a few hundred bucks)? What happens then? Im sure people have done similar things going to Allentown, etc..
What if you bring a machine over the boarder to trade for another machine of equal value (give or take a few hundred bucks)? What happens then? Im sure people have done similar things going to Allentown, etc..
Then you tell the border guard you are bringing the pin over to "display" at the show and get Free entry.
Then on the way back after you traded for a different machine you tell them you are bringing it back
Then you tell the border guard you are bringing the pin over to "display" at the show and get Free entry.
Then on the way back after you traded for a different machine you tell them you are bringing it back
Even this gets dicey now though, I know from my musical instrument buying/trading/selling history that a lot of times in these cases they are requesting serial numbers, and may stop and spot check you on the way back to make sure it matches.
The mini vacation idea is the best. When i went down to PA a couple of years back, i wanted a big green egg BBQ (thos of you who are bbq fiends know what that is, needless to say. expensive.. and it was almost half the price in PA as to here!) When we got to the border (an SUV with 4 people in it) they asked what we spent on our vacation. I honestly told them all in, around 1500. the border guard smiled and waved us on. If we had been asked to fill out all the forms, i spent around 700 bucks, and would have had to pay duty on $300 of it.
A couple of years back they nailed my brother in law because he crossed the border and tried wearing his purchases home. he ended up getting a pretty hefty bill (said he went over for lunch) and since he had threw away his recipts, they charged him duty based on MSRP of his new shoes and jacket!
I only went across once and it was for my centaur . Since it looked really bad and i had the old MPU with , i had the cash box , all rusted , next to the pin with the old MUP in it . The seller made me a receipt of $200.00 as is . The custom officer asked me if it came from ebay . Good thing it wasn ' t , 'cause i would ' ve been screwed , i think .
Still , he didn ' t like it and pulled me over and got me checked . So , don ' t take any chances if you don ' t want to get in trouble with these guys . You never know , maybe his RICE KRISPIES didn ' t go CRIC CRAC CROC the morning when you ' ll go by ...
own; super straight harlem globetrotters fathom centaur farfalla
Still , he didn ' t like it and pulled me over and got me checked . So , don ' t take any chances if you don ' t want to get in trouble with these guys . You never know , maybe his RICE KRISPIES didn ' t go CRIC CRAC CROC the morning when you ' ll go by ...
CRIC CRAC CROC? Is that French for SNAP, CRACKLE, and POP?
Have
Want
-The Getaway: High Speed II!! -Spider-Man -F-14 Tomcat -Guns N' Roses -Lord of the Rings -Twilight Zone
-Medieval Madness! -Indiana Jones (Williams) -Star Trek: The Next Generation -Champion Pub -Terminator 3 -Congo -Johnny Mnemonic -Tales of the Arabian Nights
Even this gets dicey now though, I know from my musical instrument buying/trading/selling history that a lot of times in these cases they are requesting serial numbers, and may stop and spot check you on the way back to make sure it matches.
US Customs doesn't take serial numbers (for the most part).
I've moved several (I've lost count - at least 10) machines over the border in both directions over the last few years. Each time I take a machine into the US, I stop at Canada customs and get a green card. The Canadian agent will take down the machine's title and serial number on the card and send me on my merry way. This card proves to Canada customs *on the way back into Canada* that the machine originated in Canada and is not taxable. And Canada Customs doesn't care if you ever bring the machine back into Canada. The only purpose of a green card is to make it easier for you to get out of paying tax on that particular machine if you take it into the States and then bring it back over the border. People often get green cards for their golf clubs or their cameras or whatever to avoid a hassle from the border guard when re-entering Canada.
However, the green card *can* also show US Customs that you intend to have the machine in the US for only a brief period of time. Why else would you have a green card? Since Canadians can't import goods into the US without filling out a ton of import paperwork and paying the necessary taxes (and duties for items not made in North America), when you want to take a machine into the US, the only easy option is to simply say it's going to the US temporarily (for a show or for repair or something like that). The green card backs up your claim. Once you're in the US, drop off your game wherever it's going and pitch that green card in the garbage. You won't need it anymore.
The green card, however, is a Canadian government document and the US border guard can choose to believe you or insist that you fill out a US "temporary importation" form. You'll have to go into the Customs office and talk to an agent. This is where US customs has the option of taking down details about your machine (Serial number, title, date of manufacture, etc.). If the item being brought into the US isn't proven to have been removed from the US within 6 months (or some other pre-determined time period), you'll have to answer to the US government. But, again, this only applies if you are made to fill out the temporary importation form and this form is generally reserved for new/big/expensive/bulk things. At least, that's what US Customs told me the last time I spoke to them on the phone and asked about this very subject.
I have *never* been asked to fill out the temporary importation form, nor have I ever received anything more than a happy wave when I show my green card to US Customs. American border guards are much, much more preoccupied with preventing drugs and terrorists from entering their country and have many more important things to worry about than you bringing a pinball machine over the border to be sold. If you have a truck full of stuff and you're claiming that they're all show pieces or samples, you might have a problem. If you have one lowly pinball machine, you have little to worry about.
If you buy a machine in the US, get a receipt for whatever amount you feel comfortable claiming and be prepared to pay tax on that amount. If your receipt isn't believable, Canada customs may start doing some digging to determine a value. You don't want this, because they'll make sure it takes a loooong time and they'll find that one stupid loser on ebay who's selling machines for 4x what they're worth and that's what they'll try to make you pay tax on. Meanwhile, you'll be sitting there at the border waiting and waiting and waiting. And they'll probably treat you like a terrorist, too (right Enzo?). Just make sure that whatever receipt you have can be backed up by the seller. Get him to write his name/address/phone number on it so they can contact him to verify if they want to. When in doubt, be honest.
Meanwhile, you'll be sitting there at the border waiting and waiting and waiting. And they'll probably treat you like a terrorist, too (right Enzo?).
My only comment is be honest, not worth the aggravation and FUTURE aggravation, trying to save a few dollars. Every time you go through the border and swipe your passport your record appears. The agents are linked to computers and can easily check the value of pins. They know that pins have become collector items and they are being imported into Canada. You are naive if you think otherwise.
If you think you are smarter than the customs agents and will not get caught, sooner or later it will happen and that is when I will repeat: BE HONEST.
It has been scientifically proven that light is faster than sound. That is why some people seem brilliant........until they open their mouth!
MrWalker
Male
Logged
MAACA ARCHIVES - JOIN THE NEW FORUM AT HTTP://WWW.MAACA.ORG › General Boards › MAACA Forum and Chat › Bringing a Pin over the border
