I think that INDEED if you TAKE THE RISK OF USING SOMEONE ELSE BUT YOURSELF TO PICK IT UP, YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN !!    TAKE IT LIKE A MAN!

The seller gave the game to the shipper, END OF HIS RESPONSABILITY PERIOD.  

Quoted from Mrhide

I think that INDEED if you TAKE THE RISK OF USING SOMEONE ELSE BUT YOURSELF TO PICK IT UP, YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN !!    TAKE IT LIKE A MAN!

Unfortuately I am forced to agree with Mr. Hide again on this one. I know a lot of guys move stuff around as a favor and if you start laying blame on them they simply will not help out. If you want a perfect move then do it yourself. Don't shoot the messenger. He's not going to be so willing to help you in the future if you do.

There is a reason why shipping companies sell insurance. mess happens!

Well, we all have to be aware that stuff can break on transport. As long as the game was properly transported (not loose and banging around), there should be no problems. The risk belongs to the buyer.

This being said, if the parties in question are open to a negotiation of a compensation, no problem.

I hope it never happens, but i would hate to see the day when a pin is destroyed by a car accident or a trailer unhooking and someone was doing just another member a favour. I agree with Mr. Hide and Necro, if the "buyer" agrees to the shipping method it is really his responsibility, otherwise do it yourself.

Quoted from HP5P

I hope it never happens, but i would hate to see the day when a pin is destroyed by a car accident or a trailer unhooking and someone was doing just another member a favour. I agree with Mr. Hide and Necro, if the seller agrees to the shipping method it is really his responsibility, otherwise do it yourself.

I think you mean "...if the buyer agrees to the shipping method it is really his responsibility..." right? In that case, I agree. Buyer is responsible. Sucks, but that's the risk you take when someone else picks up your game.

Duane

You are right Duane, my mistake. I have corrected it, it is the buyer responsibility.

I `m the buyer in this case

Here is the  story
seller sells me a game for X price delivered to Ottawa  So if the price is DELIVERED then responsibility is to the seller, that the machine gets to destination in the condition describe. and to prepare the game properly ( display was missing 2 screws and  a third one basically holding nothing ! so That is the only reason it got broken !

so I contacted the seller  saying what do you think if we go 50-50 on this nowing a display is around 200$
even tho i Think I have NO responsibility on this.




I have never spoke to Claude regarding shipping  or fees Nothing
and I have never or will never shoot the messenger !!

1. If i sell a game and I say deliver  I have to accept responsibility
2. If i buy a game and send someone else pick it up then I need to accept that responsibility as well
in this case I think it #1 that apply !

end of the story !

Quoted from pinballjm

So if the price is DELIVERED then responsibility is to the seller,

I agree wholeheartedly.  Certainly not the messenger's problem, especially if he's just doing a favour.  But if the price is delivered, it should be delivered intact.
My very humble 2cents

if sold DELIVERED then (and only then) INDEED it's the seller's problem.

Quoted from Mrhide

if sold DELIVERED then (and only then) INDEED it's the seller's problem.

Hmm... This being said, would you warranty a pin you're delivering to someone who paid for you to deliver??? We all know it's electronics and may brake when mooved... bad things happens and it happened to me once, what can we do, fix and pay, but learned from it...it's OLD and electronics...

In my opinion, if seller takes care of looking at everything at the best of his knowledge before he packs the pinball and gives it to someone to ship it to the buyer and the buyer agreed this way of working, the buyer takes a chance.

Each situation is different and I think we can't have the ''perfect'' answer here, buyers and sellers are all different as each transaction is different also.

My 2 cents.

Eric

From this point on, I think the 2 sides should resolve it out of the forum. Opinions have been made and decisions should now be able to be taken on both sides.


Have a nice day  

Not specific to this transaction but IMHO who is responsible for what.

The seller

- condition of the game is as advertised.
- anything loose secured. The game was engineered to be transfered by ham handed operators and should handle a reasonable move. If you have deviated from the original assembly of the game then pack the loose items up or secure them.

Rule of thumb. Pack a game as well as if not better than you would if you were buying it and bringing it home.

The shipper

-are you being paid? what are you paid for? is it insured?
-if your not paying and it's a "favor" than you get what you get in the handling. Buyers and sellers judge for yourself what the shipper is capable of and roll the dice. If it falls off the truck you can call the guy an idiot but in his mind he was probably only trying to help you. He still is an idiot for not securing it properly but you trusted him to do it so that is where the mistake was made, in trusting it to an idiot.
-if something wasn't secured properly don't blame the shipper. The seller packs the game, but if something is obviously wrong with the packing the shipper should point it out. This IMHO still does not make the shipper responsible. If he really doesn't see the packing resolved, he should leave the game.

The buyer

-responsible for whatever risks they agreed upon. i.e. if you elect to take risks then they are your risks. If they accepted the seller is going to get it to your door in a certain condition then it should arrive that way. If the guy sells it shipped and makes all the arrangements to get it there as part of the deal, he decided what risks were going to be taken, not the buyer. The buyer bought on the basis it would make it there the way he bought it.

My 2cents

Each circumstance is slightly different. In the end moving pins may cause damage and most cases it is minor. Both buyer and seller know there are risks involved and take a chance in order to move games around. In many cases this ends up in a compromise since some damage can be anticipated by both parties in moving a pinball. Hopefully the damage is minimal and the packer and shipper have done everything in their power to mitigate that damage from occuring.

I think pinballjm's idea of a resolution is very fair, and very Canadian.    Both parties are somewhat responsible, so the price of the display should be split.  The "messenger" has nothing to do with it.  I know if i hadn't secured a display properly and it broke during transport, I'd feel like an a** and would DEFINITELY be happy with only paying for half the repairs........

Quoted from necro_nemesis

Not specific to this transaction but IMHO who is responsible for what.


The shipper

-are you being paid? what are you paid for? is it insured?
-if you not paying and it's a "favor" than you get what you get in the handling..

I would agree that even if you are paying for transport, whomever "arranged" and paid transport takes the responsibility (it's this way in warehousing). Even if the buyer asks the seller to arrange third party transport on their behalf, it's the buyer's responsibility.

In the case where I am paid $50 to transport a pin from member to member, I take utmost care in the transport, but I didn't pack it, and that charge only helps cover gas, not insurance, so wouldn't want to take responsibility.

There's been only one case where something (a monitor) moved out of its mount, and no one really knows how or why it happened (I certainly don't drive like a maniac and everyone knows I'm anal about "straps", but luckily there didn't seem to be damage). Buyer accepted that these things happen.

That being said, if there was a catastrophic accident, one would hope that the transporter had proper insurance and that the contents would be covered by it (as they are in my case).

I really think that something like this should be handled in private, it's no one business either way. The seller and the buyer need to work this out, themselves.

Quoted from ALJO

Right, and that is why I kept the thing anonymous. I was asking everyones opinion about this, heck, I even kept myself anonymous, even if I had nothing to do with this all.

But really you weren't, you knew the people involved would read your post. Putting it out there, just stirs the pot, makes people take sides, then the whole process of coming to a solution is shot. The community is to small to figure that people wouldn't know who is involved.

Quoted from websherpa

everyone knows I'm anal about "straps"

Another thread going off the tracks.... sorry couldn't resist.

Quoted Text

everyone knows I'm anal about "straps"

Quoted from necro_nemesis

Another thread going off the tracks.... sorry couldn't resist.

... one can't have only one obsession, it would be boring!  

Quoted from websherpa

... one can't have only one obsession, it would be boring!  

So what your saying is your torn?...Ouch!

Apologizing in advance for tasteless humor.