Quoted from jonny_eh

You buy the expensive common components once (or twice, or if you're 'pins only' 4 times),

  

Dave (That was funny!)

Code Code Code Code!! I will not buy another new Stern that isn't finished, or close enough that I am happy with it. I really would like a Batman, (or The Dark Knight, I guess it is called) and an IJ4, But unless I see a real update come out, not be rumored again and again, but actually released, I will not buy them.

Finish the Games you have out there and then go from there. If I was a serious Operator and was looking at putting out some new games, I would like to know that I could get a real good dollar back for my routed game. The collector will know the short comings of these games with unfinished code and the resale value is minimized.

Dave

But Dave, do you think the location players care whether it's a new Stern game?  They wouldn't know the difference between a Stern Dark Knight versus Fish Tales.  Doesn't seem to make sense to spend 4-6k on a new Stern if it doesn't significantly out earns a 1.5k pin.  

I like the idea of swappable playfield designs and accompanying software. Then, I could justify the $5K initial outlay with the prospect of swapping playfields later

Also, If they made the platform without the playfield available for sale so one could buy their buddy's playfield/software and have it plug and play.

Big collectors can still buy the whole unit, and little guys can have one or a few platformns and buy/sell/trade playfield packages. There is virtually no technology shift needed to do this and it could get Stern into thje homes of people who might have 5 or 10K invested in theire pinball, versus $50K.

And now,  the operator doesnt need to retire machines that should be viable.

I guess it would be up to the MBA types to decide if this would be a more profitable route or just reinventing the wheel.

Quoted from pinsRfun

But Dave, do you think the location players care whether it's a new Stern game?  They wouldn't know the difference between a Stern Dark Knight versus Fish Tales.  Doesn't seem to make sense to spend 4-6k on a new Stern if it doesn't significantly out earns a 1.5k pin.  

Yes and No, I think we under estimate the Location player. I know the guys who play my No Fear in the Pool Hall know Exactly what they are doing. There is lots of info about Pinball available with web sites for rule sheets etc. Even the manuals have shot maps in them, well the old Bally/Williams DMD games do, and Posters were made etc.

Do they care if it is a New Stern or a Fish Tales (type game)? I seriously doubt it, as long as it plays well. If there is a choice in the same location, then they will gravitate to one game or the other, regardless of who made it. This has always been the case in the one location I have. If an Op wanted to use Pinballs, he will want something new and exciting. Colorful, good theme etc. Knowing there is a market for it after the fact is a Huge plus!! New Stern $5Kish use for a while and if it is say... Spider-Man (a specific example for someone ) keep it nice and get $3500 to $4500 for it, that makes it a lot more reasonable to operate. Would a Good looking and good playing Willians do as well? I don't see why not, as long as it is new to the location. The other factor is maintenance, the theory is, a New game is Hassle free, an old game is... Not. Is this true, No, but the illusion is there.

Dave

Quoted from Ricker

Think of the marketing for the fancy pin like a Batman and bring in the more simple maybe nostalgic pin, single level like a classic Stern. Look at Cooke's video and that game looks fun to play and we keep trading or selling games like that all of the time, more so than the uber high end pins.

A classic pin will not work. End of story. Capcom tried it with Breakshot and that game didn't do gang busters. Do you really think enough folks will fork over $3K ($2K isn't realistic given the volume of sales, even $3K isn't likely) for a "classic" style game when they can buy a used one for $500 to $600??? And how many folks will fork over the cash? Enough to sustain a business? Not likely. And kids (the important component) will not play a classic game...not enough toys to interest them.

Another important point to consider, I recall Gary once saying the cost of a pinball was in the design, not the manufacture. The lion share of the cost is developing the game. If this is the case, I really don't see a HUGE savings from going to classic style.

My .02.

Duane

Quoted from jonny_eh

And if home owners are their market, they need to sell a platform. It worked for Nintendo, it can work for Stern (on a smaller scale of course).

Smaller scale??? Not comparable by a long shot. Wii sales were close to 50 million as of January 29. In November alone, they sold half a million units in the US alone! Pinball cann't compete with those numbers.

And the economic reality is totally different. The big money, for Nintendo, comes from licensing. Every single game that is made for the Wii contributes to Nintendo's bottom line regardless if they made it or not.

I don't see a pinball platform being realistic. There just isn't enough volume.

Duane

Article makes some assumptions and paints a picture as to where the players went. I suggest if the assumptions are true they went home (or are 40 year old squeegee kids). If you don't know within the first five seconds who his new friend is your in trouble.

http://cheeptalk.wordpress.com/2009/11/17/the-economics-of-pinball/

I don't know what proportion of operators maintain their pins though.  Look at Southern Music.  It's horrid.  Look at the pinbot you got from the GreyHound location.  Granted, almost the same as Southern Music.  Give them a new Stern and it isn't gonna be worth 3500-4500 afterwards unless someone puts in some serious work on them.  I think for the most part, it is a whole less risky to buy an older pin for location and get more value out of that and then also flip it at the end.

Quoted from TwilightZone

Another important point to consider, I recall Gary once saying the cost of a pinball was in the design, not the manufacture. The lion share of the cost is developing the game. If this is the case, I really don't see a HUGE savings from going to classic style.

Continuing on this note, previous threads discussed the possibility of Stern going to a "kit" style format where you purchase a shell with the boards and display etc and then buy the PF's separately.  This is all fine and good, but if you think these PF kits will be cheap think again.  

As Duane stated the bulk of the game cost is design / programming, couple that with all the material and labour required to make a PF (I would hazard a guess that an assembled PF is currently 80%+ of the total game cost to make) and it adds up really quick.

Based on what WMS was selling the SWep1 kits for back in the day my bet is you'd still be looking at spending 3K+ US for any sort of PF kit if available.

Doug

Beats 5K + for sure. And at least this way cabs with beat playfields could be used versus buying all the physical parts every time when not needed. I like the idea of having that option.

Quoted from Menace

Continuing on this note, previous threads discussed the possibility of Stern going to a "kit" style format where you purchase a shell with the boards and display etc and then buy the PF's separately.  This is all fine and good, but if you think these PF kits will be cheap think again.  

As Duane stated the bulk of the game cost is design / programming, couple that with all the material and labour required to make a PF (I would hazard a guess that an assembled PF is currently 80%+ of the total game cost to make) and it adds up really quick.

Based on what WMS was selling the SWep1 kits for back in the day my bet is you'd still be looking at spending 3K+ US for any sort of PF kit if available.

Doug

Similar to what the nucore guys said at EXPO ... they asked who would pay $10K for a new game (Wizard Blocks) .. not many bites ... who would pay 5-6K for a kit lots of folks. Basically putting a price on the kits that they thought was doable .. so I don't see 1K-2K kits being plausible.