Quoted Text

Vids are dead.  That won't change.  HDTV and iPod Touch/iPhone are more entertainment than an old Vid (and can emulate them also).

Amen ,

if you can get 500 + for a machine nowadays...... it really needs to be a classic or in a mint of shape

I don't think people will want to buy a machine higher than 300$ in years to come even at that price it's too much for a old CRT with a generic cab + only one dedicated game


people can get a 52'' HDTV LCD for cheap , they all have a pc ... they can hook it up on the Tv and play mame for free
without hassle & getting a bad back lifting a 6 feet 1 pieice of furniture that weights 500 pounds.

not worth much money imo

i still can't understand  how ebayer is still F#@*#@# people over with machines like MK 2 for 1000$ shipped
& sale  boards/pcb  for 50$ a piece to 200$ +

the hobby would be 10x better if the price were set right by the sellers , there would be much more machines for sale , trade ,
but people value them on one thing  ''VINTAGE R@RE LOOK!!!!!!''

''vids are dead'' i don't agree with this. Yes, actually the market is low but imo it will come higher later. Lot's of people like classics vids but it's not time to buy for the majority of potential buyers because of the low economy. The future high valuable vids games will be the classics in very nice condition. Kit games in generic cabinet won't go higher in value. Also the forum here is pins oriented and it give the impression that vids are not interesting and low value.

Another opinion about this thread. Pinball are dead, that's the real fact. Video game is now the most valuabe business before movie ! Classic video game will only get more value in the future !   Yonger people will grow up, find a nice job and get interest in classic video games, and in the future, games like Tempest, Robotron, Stargate and ect will be the most sought after games and the value will go up !  

Like classic cars, in the 80's nobody want to buy an old 69 Charger hemi but today try to find it under 50,000$ if you can !!!!!!!!  

Quoted from HAL-9OOO

Another opinion about this thread. Pinball are dead, that's the real fact. Video game is now the most valuabe business before movie ! Classic video game will only get more value in the future !  

I'm a vid guy myself, and I'd like nothing more than to see vid prices go up,
but there are 3 factors against vids that you don't get from pins or cars.

1- Emulation.
You can emulate any vid to the very last detail,
...and play them all on your iPod.  PinMAME is just not the same,
and you obviously can't emulate a '69 Charger Hemi

2- Console games/Handhelds (Xbox, PS3, Nintendo DS, etc... )
This is what killed vids in the first place,
and these games just keep getting better and more realistic.
Video arcade game development has virtually stopped
(...except for a few titles like Golden Tee, Big Buck Hunter, etc... ).
Kids today can play whatever they want wherever they want,
they won't grow-up wanting a 300lbs "fridge" to play an 8-bit game...

3- Demographics
A BIG part of vid collecting is the nostalgic attachment to that era.
I would argue that the vast majority of collectors (who where teens in the 80's)
are now well into their 40's (...or at least 35+ ).  
Most vid activity likely happens in this age group, and unfortunately
I don't see much growth in this . (...more people get out of the hobby than those who start-up...)

I seriously doubt that a "new" generation of vid collectors will ever happen.

So for those 3 reasons, I don't really see the vid market making a huge comeback.
The "Classics" will always have marketability, but I don't really see any big price increases overall,
unless it is a stellar unit in mint condition.

When I buy a game, it is with the intention of keeping it, because I know I'll lose money
if I try to sell.  ( ...ironically I had to sell a few games recently for space and money reasons,
and lost money on both of them after only 10 month of ownership ).

As for your claim that pinball is dead and Video games is huge,
... I think that's a bit skewed...

Yes, pinball is slowing down, but it's far from dead.
The pin collectors FAR outnumber the [arcade] vid collectors
and the hobby "appears" to be growing  (...more and more Newsgroups and Forums ).

As for video games being a bigger industry than movies,
that's obviously the console market, which is entirely different from arcade vids.

Today's console games are not helping the [arcade] video collector segment at all.
Worse yet, with all the "Classic" game emulation packagages, people are even
less likely to want the full arcade cab if they can get every Atari, Nintendo or Williams classic game
on a single console cartridge.

Like I said, I'd like to think that vids will make a comeback,
but like another 80's icon who was recently planning a comeback (tour) , ...it won't happen...

Steph

Well put.

Pinball is more physical and emulation does not do it justice. A $300 console system won't replace a pinball machine. Individual collectors evidentally have collected as many machines as there were on many locations. There are now more collectors than there were ever locations. Do the math.

I see pinball being collected similarly to old cars and not requiring a resurgence of new machines to sustain it's interest. I never drove a new 57 Chev but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like one.

Kid's are even starting to move away from console games from what I can see. Ask them about them getting hyped about a new title coming out and it's pretty ho hum. I don't know which direction it's going next but I would say there is going to be another shift to other leisure activities. Maybe there's hope for softball or soccer.

Maybe an arcade isn't crazy? Just look at what Len took a long shot on at Silver City in Newmarket. If there is any future in vids it's being trailed here. A mix of console rooms and BIG cabinet games. I just wish they have given pinball a more significant attempt and made a lineup instead of two games.

This isn't the arcade we are used to and I see a downfall in these new systems. The machines nowadays are HUGE and take up a lot of real estate. It's too bad they need to make this impact to draw change. The big footprint and possibly relative high cost for the cabs really limits the variety of games.

Vids have had one single ''golden age'' and then dropped nearly out of site. Pinball on the other hand has been around since the 30s and has had quite a few ups and downs, but is always present.

What had always favored vids was the relative low cost of maintenance and high return over the years. In the early 80's, a vid cost LESS than a pinball AND the maintenance costs were a joke compared to a pin. But NOW... some vids are TWICE the price of a pin, take up an insane amount of space, cannot be converted to another game (except maybe a new version of the same game), cost a crapload when something breaks, but still have a high return compared to pins, so the playing field is levelling.

In fact, it is my firm belief that if today's pins played more like the classics (meaning brutal for most, instead of being able to play for 10+ minutes on one ball), arcades would go back to them.

I personally believe we will see a rebirth of pinball soon. All it depends on is who goes ahead and does it. And the way things are now, I don't believe Stern is going in the right direction. Too many mechanical toys... more stuff to break.

Argumentation is nice but what i observe is different. I regularly see young people driving classic cars. Those cars are not from this generation. Teenage today play PS3 and X-Box but eventually a part of those players will try old classics and apreciate them like they apreciate a classic car. Classic cars in 60's had a great impact like vids in 80's have a great impact. When you think about 80's vids were kings of popularity, not pinball. Even today, after 30 years, the most popular icon of video game is the Pac-Man logo.

Emulation: the only way to approach the feelling of the real arcade with emulation is to have the original controller and monitor. One of the fantastic caracteristic about 80's classic game was the controllers and variety of gameplay. Lot of differents games have their specific control panel. If you buy an X-Arcade or control panel like this you cannot have the original feeling. For example, playing simple games like Pac-Man or even Joust is not the same thing without the original controller, you cannot ''perform'', and Stargate, Star Wars etc ... are far away to be enjoyable with emulation.  The emulation is a very limited way to enjoy classic video game imo. I look at the montruous control panel with multiple joysticks, for a classic player like me it's a nightmare to imagine playing vids this way. And if you think about emulation of vector game, you are far behind the original feeling with emulation. Emulation are great if you take lot of time and investissment to recreate also the original game physically.

Modern computer games are the continuity of the classic video games, that's why vids are still alive.

Quoted from necro_nemesis

Maybe an arcade isn't crazy? Just look at what Len took a long shot on at Silver City in Newmarket. If there is any future in vids it's being trailed here. A mix of console rooms and BIG cabinet games. I just wish they have given pinball a more significant attempt and made a lineup instead of two games.

Just a note, Len had nothing to do with the expansion of Silvercity Newmarket.  While I'm sure the games were either purchased from our profit shared from Playdium, the idea for the expansion of the theaters was a directive from the Cineplex Head office.  I remeber going over the plans for this stuff just before I left, Cineplex is trying to make their locations more of a destination for familes rather then just a place to watch movies, they figure by making it an entire entertainment complex it will be more likely to draw in familes to spend a day hanging out at the facility rather then just going to see a movie.  

This also isn't the first location, I'm pretty positive another location built up exactly the same way exists out in the west end, I could check with my buddies still working there to find out for sure, but I know a new location was built prior to the Newmarket expansions that was exactly the same.  

As for the original topic I agree with everyone that the video market is dead, all you have to do is do is head out to a starburst auction and see working vids go for $100 or less to realize that.  collector quality games will always hold a niece market but to think the vid market will ever make a resergance back to the 80's is nieve.  

Quoted from Vengeance

collector quality games will always hold a niece market but to think the vid market will ever make a resergance back to the 80's is nieve.  

Damn. I was just getting excited by the thoughts of displaying my skills to fend off wave after wave of countless swarmers in a public forum.

Where have all the gladiators gone?

HAL-9000, trust me, Vids are dead.  Sorry, don't mean to bust your bubble so to speak.  I realize that you are a big collector now and I am also (heck I am still wasting rent storing machines which I have no basement for yet).  There is no bigger fan than me for Vids.  But they will not come back in 2, 5 or 10 years where all computer/game geaks will bring up the value again.  

The Vids are not low because of the economy.  The prices of Vids had dropped at least 2-3 years before the economy started suffering in 2007-2008.  
The guys that have grown up already who got a nice job did buy Vids already and they are you and I, 40 year olds mostly.  Almost all 40 year olds that liked arcades in the 80s have already purchased a Vid or two to re-live that era.  The 25 year old boys I know now, might be interested in Donkey Kong because they saw the Fistful of Quarters DVD (or maybe a Pac-man), but nothing else.  iPods/HDTV and Social Network sites and Home Consoles are way more interesting to them than to have Vids.  

Space is costly these days as houses (at least in Canada) have gone up.  Most of those younger men that would buy Vids live in small condos more than in big houses with nice basements and so 1-2 Vids is usually max.  But 1-2 Vids won't bring up the Vids market.  MAME, does nothing for the Vid market either aside sell some iPac type interface boards.

Furthermore, there is nothing much more being reproduced by any decent companies for Vids artwork, other.  What is there is there but nothing coming out that is super inexpensive to feed a need so to speak.

I don't feel Pinball will ever die since it has been around since like 70 years.  There is too much difference between emulating an old Vid on your portable device or PC versus a mechanical machine such as a Pin.

Perhaps we will meet sometime soon and have a nice discussion on this crazy hobby of ours.  Salut.

Sylvain, sorry to go off topic on your thread.

Hi Elio, you have very good points and i agree with them. But i regularly check the price of my vids on ebay ( i check for all my collection ) and what i remark is the price is stable for a few years or maybe just little lower. Also the economy is low now but i think the market find a balance between buyers and sellers for classic game.
For the expression '' vids are dead'' i think we need a definition to be more clear  

I'm pretty certain that i can sell my vids the price i bought them 8 years ago, maybe few games here on MAACA and the others in USA. (I'm certain that i can have more than i paid for Turkey Shoot here on MAACA for example   )

Quoted from HAL-9OOO

Hi Elio, you have very good points and i agree with them. But i regularly check the price of my vids on ebay ( i check for all my collection ) and what i remark is the price is stable for a few years or maybe just little lower. Also the economy is low now but i think the market find a balance between buyers and sellers for classic game.
For the expression '' vids are dead'' i think we need a definition to be more clear  

I'm pretty certain that i can sell my vids the price i bought them 8 years ago, maybe few games here on MAACA and the others in USA. (I'm certain that i can have more than i paid for Turkey Shoot here on MAACA for example   )

EBAY is only a small amount of where machines get sold.  Most get sold locally and across a few close US States.  Shipping and even gas is going to remain pretty expensive over the next few years.  Won't get any cheaper to purchase old/heavy Vids.

I am completely sure that I cannot sell any of my Vids (and that you cannot either) for those prices paid 5-8 years ago.  I cannot sell my Mrs. Pac-Man for $1000 or Star Wars for $1200 right now and I am pretty sure of that.

If you are still collecting, do not collect to eventually hope to gain even 70% of what you paid for them when the hobby was selling high.  You should collect to keep them forever in your basement....

Pins, there is still hope.

Have fun with the hobby!