Question for you all... pinball price guide aside...

I was wondering about the added value of a completely refurbished pin... if it is worth the work. I can pick up any classic SS pin for relatively cheap (under 200$), and redo pretty much everything. If I do so, here is a general breakdown:

- cab fix and repaint (200$ if I get stencils, 50$ + labor intensive if I do it myself)
- 150$ for board work
- playfield I redo myself, but labor intensive
- backglass I can retouch, but if bad, I have to buy one (100-300$)

Would you do it? Take any popular title, such as, umm... well, Silverball Mania let's say. How much would a NICE one fetch, with a redone cab, clearcoated playfield, cleaned and 100% mechanicals and beautiful overall?

I know it depends on the title, but I am on the fence with a decision, between collecting or limiting myself to strictly fixing. The problem stems from having no one to come over to play once in a while, and the fact that I cannot have a meeting before making my pins 100%, and even then, I wonder if there is interest since I only have classic SS pins.

Also, because I have found a small stash of beat-up pins for cheap, which would monopolize my time.

Just an idea... so... would you rebuild completely if the titles are good, or just leave as-is, as long as they work?

Unless someone is paying you for your services I think you are going to end up working for free.

The problem with restorations is that unless you are dealing with A titles I think you are going to have a hard time selling them for what they are worth.  

If someone came to you and said I have this silverball mania and I want it resotred, it might be a little more fesible.  But to assume that a restored version is going to sell isn't the best idea espically in todays market.

Keep in mind that the "book prices" are already for "nice, clean and working games"...

So, at least to me, i would expect a nice one to be around that price +/- a certain amount but not necesseraly by much.

In other words, your restored pin would have its full value once restored while it would be worth less in its current bad cosmetics but working state. I dont think it would "add" value to it that much to fully restore it unless its a highly collectible one with hundreds of people ready to buy it.

This is my personnal opinion and by no means a scientifical analysis, so take it for whats its worth. I would fix them for me if i had the space to keep them, restore those you really like but wont hope on making a big return on your labour...

leave as is.  once you get them working.   as long as they are updated with new battery and such.  then just sell them for a profit to buy what you really want.  you can always give them the option of having the cab redone for more money.
  a lot of us just like to buy to play and don't have big hang-ups on the condition of the cab.
  what do you have now sparky?  

I think you'd have to find the "rich doctor" that's willing to pay a premium price for an older SS pin - and appreciates it as art work - and wants something pristine to fit into the homes decor.  

I'd love a fully-restored one - but two things stop me
(1) price - "hey I could buy 2 SS for that price" or "i could get a DMD for that price"; and;
(2) i could restore it myself (although I never would - I would still say it to myself)...

I think you could probably do well getting SS's into university kids hands for their dorms / apartments more easily.   Here you could save on the cosmetics.   They might not stay in good shape, though, ...

I think the theme I'm hearing
(...which is the one I agree with... ) is to
fix them for yourself (for your own collection),
but don't do it solely for profit because you'll probably
never get back the money and effort you put into it
(...especially the labour... )



My 2 cents..    (  <=== copyright Frosken @2004  )

Steph

Quoted from gorydeath

leave as is.  once you get them working.   as long as they are updated with new battery and such.  then just sell them for a profit to buy what you really want.  you can always give them the option of having the cab redone for more money.
  a lot of us just like to buy to play and don't have big hang-ups on the condition of the cab.
  what do you have now sparky?  

Not too much about making a profit... I am just happy to break even.

As for what I have, look in my signature below. I am also looking at a small lot of classic pins, but nothing concrete yet. A few nice early-SS Bally Williams and Stern titles, but most are route-blown and need a lot of love.

Quoted from Tuborg

I think you'd have to find the "rich doctor" that's willing to pay a premium price for an older SS pin - and appreciates it as art work - and wants some prestine to fit into the homes decor.  

I'd love a fully-restored one - but two things stop me
(1) price - "hey I could buy 2 SS for that price" or "i could get a DMD for that price"; and;
(2) i could restore it myself (although I never would - I would still say it to myself)...

I think you could probably do well getting SS's into university kids hands for their dorms / apartments more easily.   Here you could save on the cosmetics.   They might not stay in good shape, though, ...

The thing is I can manage to make money even by selling at book value, even after rebuilding a pin completely... of course, I don't calculate my labor in it.

Quoted from Azatotht

Keep in mind that the "book prices" are already for "nice, clean and working games"...

So, at least to me, i would expect a nice one to be around that price +/- a certain amount but not necesseraly by much.

In other words, your restored pin would have its full value once restored while it would be worth less in its current bad cosmetics but working state. I dont think it would "add" value to it that much to fully restore it unless its a highly collectible one with hundreds of people ready to buy it.

This is my personnal opinion and by no means a scientifical analysis, so take it for whats its worth. I would fix them for me if i had the space to keep them, restore those you really like but wont hope on making a big return on your labour...

Yeah... I have space for 10 pins easy with the gameroom now finished... space is not a problem. Yeah... might just do it for myself, and sell them off if I get tired.

Fix them up and put them on route
You'll make your money back in no time!

Quoted from jonny_eh

Fix them up and put them on route
You'll make your money back in no time!

Welcome to the province of Quebec.. where every route machine needs a 300$/year permit... quite a bubble burster isnt it.

Quoted from Sparky

The thing is I can manage to make money even by selling at book value, even after rebuilding a pin completely... of course, I don't calculate my labor in it.

I'll buy a fully restored seawitch from you at book value   if its anything like your past projects.

I think you undersell your work, though!

From my experience, it is very difficult to sell machines at or higher than book values,
unless you are an established commercial seller in a big market (e.g. Toronto for instance).
Or unless the machines are mint, or found NOS in-box in a hidden warehouse !

It seems your potential projects will be intensive in parts, time, repairs and restoration
(plus getting boards fixed). Plus maybe after-sale service/repair down the road, if the
machine is sold at a premium to a newbee.

Unless you have a custom request from a motivated buyer (or a machine owner who wants
a particular machine to be restored), you probably will end-up selling at loss in the end.
Time is money...

But might be a good exercise for playfield restorations for you, if this is what you want.

Bonne chance !
- Sylvain @ Ottawa.

Sylvain has a good point.  IT seems that other than dealers or those who can buy low and sell at book value (or wait it out for a non-informed buyer), selling services and parts to people in the hobby seems to be the more lucrative approach, particularly if you provide exemplary or economical service.

Quoted from websherpa

Sylvain has a good point.  IT seems that other than dealers or those who can buy low and sell at book value (or wait it out for a non-informed buyer), selling services and parts to people in the hobby seems to be the more lucrative approach, particularly if you provide exemplary or economical service.

Like I have said before, I am thinking of restoring playfields, but I am in no way as qualified as people like Bill Davis or NWOJedi or Playfield Renovations. Clearcoat is easy, but my touch-up techniques are so-so. I would need to get an airbrush and some other equipment (details are easy... it is large full-color areas that are difficult to do with a brush... best with an airbrush). I might just follow this avenue if there is a local demand. I just don't want to deal with people that will come back to me stating that the work is sub-par and want a refund even when I would charge almost half of what others do...

Thanks for your opinions.

In my opinion, you might have more success with the PF restoration (retouch/clearcoat) alone,
as opposed to full machine purchase/repair/restoration/sale, since quite a few of us can find
affordable projects, repair and shop our own machines (including boards)...
But very few of us can do quality/professional touch-up and clear-coat to playfields.

Plus, there are so many machines available out there for non-collectors
(eBay, Kijiji, Craigslist, Mr.Pinball, rec.games.pinball, MAACA, UsedOttawa, etc.)
that non-collectors will often not care for pristine/premium machines...

I sincerely wish you success with PF restoration - as I indicated before, I would like
to use your services in the future, for a few PFs.

Cheers,
- Sylvain.

I think you said it yourself, Ian, get them for yourself and fix them up to a level that is acceptable to you. If you keep them for yourself, it's a labour of love, then it's all good.

I've been there MANY times. I don't know HOW many games I've planned on keeping, done the ALL work, and then ended up selling....

I personally think that there is a small market out there for early SS games ( especially Bally ), restored to like new condition, but when you add it all up ( labour hours, parts, etc. ) you probably would just break even on the price you sell them for. On the bright side at least you get to enjoy them for awhile! There are a few guys that I've met in the last little while, they want collector quality pins from this era, and are willing to pay for them! Theme definately has alot to do with it... but it really depends on the buyer. Good condition games are getting harder to find, the market seems to be drying up a bit, especially when it comes to "like new" condition games. I don't think your idea of fixing them up to new is so wrong. I personally don't mind paying a bit more to get a better quality game ( within reason of course! ) and I'm sure some experienced buyers would tell you the same.

As long as you're doing it for yourself, you'll never lose, IMHO.

Quoted from Tuborg

I'll buy a fully restored seawitch from you at book value   if its anything like your past projects.

Me first.

Quoted from cooke

Me first.

ALL my pins will get done. Seawitch as well as Big Game. And hopefully one day, another Stern if the money from the playfields comes in... I intend to finance my collecting with the playfield rework.

Last year I sold a JOKER POKER FOR $1350 and nobody argued with the price,New CPU,POWER SUPPLY,NO CAB WORK,NEW BACK GLASS,CLEANED AND SHOPPED.I played it for a year and sold it working perfect with a year waranty.You can restore them and enjoy them till you want to get something new.
My 2 cents

I think you will make more money with PF restoration because you won't have to find client, people will come to you and will be ready to pay your price... even if you found cheap pins, restoring them, you still have to sell them after... more risk. Just don't flood the market