I realize this may be to a limited audience, but hope some others may have some insight.

I've finally got the bowler from gjd into the basement and setup.  On the first power up it seemed to cycle fine (scores, players, frames all reset properly), and adding coins works fine (number of players increases), however the game selection doesn't work and 'shots' don't seem to register.  By 'shot' I mean manually tripping one of the metal bars in the last row on the PF, as my puck is still in the mail.

Is there something I'm missing?

Mike, did you ever manage to scan the schematics?

Thanks

Quoted from QN

I realize this may be to a limited audience, but hope some others may have some insight.

I've finally got the bowler from gjd into the basement and setup.  On the first power up it seemed to cycle fine (scores, players, frames all reset properly), and adding coins works fine (number of players increases), however the game selection doesn't work and 'shots' don't seem to register.  By 'shot' I mean manually tripping one of the metal bars in the last row on the PF, as my puck is still in the mail.

Is there something I'm missing?

Mike, did you ever manage to scan the schematics?

Thanks

I've got a copy from a Royal Hawaiian.  I can't imagine it'd be much different.  But as someone said here it's huge, a blueprint scanner would be needed.  I took some pictures with my camera if you want, but they aren't really clear.

According to my service manual the machine always advances to "Regulation" on a reset.  Does yours?  Is the machine in tilt?  There is a 'Rear Roll Over Relay' on the back of mine that is energized by any of the 9 rear rollover switches.

Thank for the offer, but I'll wait for Mr.Mikeman to see if he scanned his first, save you the trouble hopefully.

Yes, it sets to Regulation when it starts.  There isn't any tilt indication.  The only thing I see is an anti-slam switch on the coin door, it's closed.  Is there another?

I tried again tonight and was able to get some pins to go up, I'm not sure if there was a loose connection prior as I did re-seat the connectors again prior to trying, or if I wasn't tripping both switches at the same time the other night.  At any rate, they go up, however nothing still seems to register (no scores, no frame reset when all pins are up).  I take it the score reels update at the end of the frame/player as opposed to per shot?

The rear roll over relay does trip when I hit one of the rear switches.  Although it also has a large resistor jumpered off of it, not sure if that's original or not.

Another odd thing, there are the individual lane lights on the underside of the PF, at what point do these light up?  I would think that they should be on as soon as the game starts.

Ok a few things..  

- No the schematics are not scanned yet.

- Scoring:  It's the same as bowling (when playing regulation).  So..  Score at the end of the frame unless a spare or a strike, then scoring is later.

- The lights under the playfeld are for the "Flash" game...  The flash in sequence along with the points lights behind tsmall backglass...  Quite fun actually.  It adds timing to the game.  i.e. you have to try to get a strike when the red lights are on for the most points.

- You'll probably have to 'loosen' all the stepper units.  They're mostly on the back of the door.  Get them to move manually.  I used non-conductive and non-dust collecting lube (VERY LITTLE) on the pivot points of the steppers and worked them by hand until they were loose.

- Yes the connections (big plugs) from the playfield may be corroded and cause switch problems due to bad contact.

- All the switches at the back are connected together and they count the 'shots'.

Hope this helps a little.  I'm away from home this week but I'm returning tonight.  I'll see if I can get the sheet scanned next week.

Mike

Thanks Mike, I saw your other post and knew you were out of town.  I'm still waiting on a puck so there isn't a rush yet.

In another thread you were talking about the different play modes, specifically the start button.  I'm starting to guess that there is a bad connection there.  The start button is gone, closing the switch does nothing, yet there is some power there.  Only half a volt though, not enough to drive the lamp.  Can you give me a overview of what/where any game setting connections/jumpers are?

I'm sure it's close, or something stupid/obvious.  It'd be a lot further along if it wasn't for those damn Olympics.

Thanks

The start button is disabled on mine too (and missing) and I still haven't figured out how to get that working.  Right now it's set up to start immediately when you add a credit and adds players after that.  Concentrate on getting to run correctly first then worry about the accumulation of credits and using the start button.

Mike

Quoted from QN

I realize this may be to a limited audience, but hope some others may have some insight.

I've finally got the bowler from gjd into the basement and setup.  On the first power up it seemed to cycle fine (scores, players, frames all reset properly), and adding coins works fine (number of players increases), however the game selection doesn't work and 'shots' don't seem to register.  By 'shot' I mean manually tripping one of the metal bars in the last row on the PF, as my puck is still in the mail.

Is there something I'm missing?

Mike, did you ever manage to scan the schematics?

Thanks

If worse comes to worse, bring it back and ill exchange it for another. What is the title of yours by the way?

Quoted from gjd

If worse comes to worse, bring it back and ill exchange it for another. What is the title of yours by the way?

Thanks for the offer, but I don't think it will come to that.  I'm sure it's something that can be figured out, not to mention that the only way that thing is coming out of the basement is in pieces.  It's officially a chattel now.

(I have one of the Civic Centers.)

Any idea why this wire would be cut? (see top lead of bottom coil, it's been cut and wrapped around the remaining wires).  It's on the motor by the pin mechanism (looking in from the back of the cabinet, it's on the top left).

Another angle.

what unit is it?

Is this the Credit unit ?

If it is, I have seen similar hacks in the past, where the credit substract coil is disconnected,
thus basically setting the machine permanently on free play (once credits are added, they
never return to zero).

I prefer the other method of changing the adjustment of the zero position switch on the EMs
Credit unit, to make the machine 'think' there are still credits even thought the counter is at 0.
In that method, the credits are still added or substracted on the unit as normal, but the machine
will still start a new game even if at zero credits...


Cheers,
- Sylvain.

Yes, it looks like the credit unit.  By what you are saying, I take it that disconnecting that coil is the only part of that hack? (in case I want to put it back)

Back to my original problem, a more specific question to those that have bowlers I guess.  If the rear roll over relay trips, which mine does when you hit one of the switches at the end of the pf, I would then think that it would trip some shot counter.  Even if none of the pin switches are set, ie. I score 0 on the frame, after a couple of 'shots' it should advance to the next frame but nothing happens, the rear roll over switch just continues to fire.  

My other theory is that something still isn't set right and it's not yet even in 'game' mode.  Since the game select doesn't work and start button has been removed.

Just a thought did you check your frame count stepper unit? The frame count stepper unit is on the door and it has a label on it telling you what it is.

My bowler would not play at the beginning because the unit would not not reset to frame one. The spring on the unit did not have the strength to reset the counter because it was to stiff. There is a orange dot painted on the dial and on the body of the counter to let you know where frame one is.

Mike

Farm Boy, yes, the frame counter resets.  There are two things that differ from what Mr.Mikeman and I have.  First, my game select doesn't do anything.  This shouldn't be a big deal, however it may have the same root cause as the second problem and that is that the 1st ball relay doesn't trip when a shot is taken.  The rear roll over switch goes as mentioned, but not the ball count.  I suppose I could just manually jumper the 1st ball relay after I take a shot and see if the rest of the scoring works.

Farm Boy, can you check the bottom right of the door and tell me if there is a relay missing?  I'm hoping there is.

I was just testing some things, as I unplugged the machine, I noticed a relay released.  Upon closer inspection it's the bottom right relay and it's ominously labeled 'Lock'.    Which reminded me of a pm Mr.Mikeman sent me a month or so ago asking me if I had a relay in that location since his seemed to be missing.

*edit* Based on what I found, the lock relay is irrelevant for normal operation, correct?

Mike(s), here are some pics of the state of mine, can you compare to what you have please?

Admins, feel free to move this to the Project folder if you feel it better belongs there.

The first is the state after I add a coin, doesn't move from this (either by a shot or game select).
The second is the position of the game/coin jumpers.
The third/fourth are the front/back of the score reel.
The fifth is the shot relay bank, you can see that 3 of the relays have tripped (due to shots hitting those pins, but the 1st shot relay is still open).
The sixth and seventh are the game over and lock relays.
The last is the frame reel.

One more, the connector.  I'm a bit worried about this and the other connectors.  First, as you can see this one is cracked, although the connections still seem ok.  Second, the lights on the 1up, player and frame will cut out with a modest bump on the machine, a shot with the puck is even enough to cut the power, the question is where?

Broken baklite, don't worry about that.... Have you cleaned all the pins? I always use a sandpaper grade 1500.... These pin looks often ok but some time they have some corrosion on them.... a little white powder....

Next time try to post a little bit bigger pix please....

I'll give them a clean and see if that helps.  If I knew it would help for sure I would look at replacing the connectors with something newer.

Sure, I realized that they weren't able to show some of the detail after the fact.  Next time.

It's getting closer.  First I went back and cleaned the connectors as AMX suggested, probably should have done this right off the start.  While doing that I noticed that there was a wire disconnected from the 1-9 score relay, so I soldered that back on.  After those two things it will actually accumulate scores now, however the frames don't increment.  It keeps track of the shots, so it knows to reset the pins after the second shot, but the frame reel doesn't move, it's stuck in the 1st frame position (see pic above).

Can someone offer some insight as to what relay might trigger the frame reel?  

Thinking about it some more as I type this, it may not be the frame advance, but the player advance instead since if I put in two credits, it always stays on 1UP.  The logic should go: increment player, then frame.

Btw, the game select still doesn't work, not sure if that would affect the play at all.

Where are you located?

Do you have schematics yet?

I have so far got 4 of these bowlers working, in a very short time.

Pm me if you want to call me later and I can help you over the phone.

Thanks for the offer Dr. S, but I'm in Ottawa, a bit out of the way for you.

I haven't got the schematics yet, Mike was going to scan then, but he's probably too busy celebrating getting old

Just knowing what relays trip at what time would be a big help.