Well, since my MPV is a royal piece of rusting crap that I cannot stand looking at anymore (I washed it this weekend and noticed rust EVERYWHERE...), combined with the price of new cars these days, I will most probably change vehicles in the next few days.

The question is what to buy?

My budget is max 25000$ selling price. Must be comfortable, not too hard on gas, and a vehicle in which I can haul a machine (or 2) easily. The only thing is that if I end up with another vehicle of the quality of a Grioswold "Family Thruster", I will go nukular...

I wanted your opinions...

My options:

CHRYSLER:
2009 Dodge Grand Caravan. Inexpensive due to crazy-a** rebates, but I am on the fence with it... some say it is awesome, some say it is crap. Opinions? Anyone know someone with one?

2009 Dodge Journey: Same as above, but smaller... dunno...

2009 Ram. Tough on gas with the 8-to-4 cylinder option?

FORD:

2009 Ford Flex. Depends at what price I can get one... Nice vehicle, but might be overpriced...

2009 F150. Same as the Dodge Ram... Gas-overkill...

TOYOTA:
2009 Sienna. Yeah... I doubt I can get on in my range though...

2009 Matrix. On the small side...

2009 Tacoma. NO WAY this is in my range... especially with the quadcab.

HONDA:
2009 Odyssey. Same as Sienna... doubt I can find one at that price...

2009 Ridgeline. Fugly, but useful.

Any other recommendations? Go crazy.... let me know...

... and BTW... no more f**king Mazda or GM. Got burned once by both, never again.

My parents have had 2 caravans, never heard to many complaints out of them, I know for sure you can fit 2 pinballs in the back with all the seats removed as I've done it   

Can't really comment on it any further then that as I'm not much of a car guy. You may also want to consider going with a sedan with some towing capacity that way you can get the best of both worlds.  Something good on gas milege for the day to day and something that can tow a trailer when you need to move a pin or two.  

Get a Hyundai

I'm on the market as well, especially since we are going to have our third kid in September...

So i need one able to fit 3 baby-seats/boosters with still enough room to carry everything else that comes with them (we travel a lot).

Went to look at a Nissan Quest, was nice with the back seat folding into the floor.

Personally, i wont buy new.. its way too F#@*#@# expensive ! A low mileage used one will do it for me.

This is my dream vehicle:

http://www.dodge.com/en/2009/sprinter/

You could fit like 6 pins in that thing

If you're looking for reliability, it doesn't get much better than Toyota... and it's a good mix between foreign and north american.  It's built here, but (thankfully) with Asian quality and standards in mind.

Has Chrysler fixed their transmission problems?

Ford F150 is a great Truck, never had an issue other than the usual maintenance, I have owned two in the 8 eight years, but gas economy does not exist with this truck. On the highway, you get 650-700 km on a 90 litre tank and that is with the 4.6L engine. All the new trucks have 5.4L V-8.

Quoted from machine.slave

Has Chrysler fixed their transmission problems?

Yes, since 2002, but customer ratings are all over the place. Some are extremely happy and have had 0 problems, some think it is a POS and have had problems. That points out build consistency problems... so to get one is a gamble.

We drove a Caravan rental a couple months ago for a few weeks.  The longer we had it, the less we liked about it.  It drives like the old Caravan but just a newer body.  Shocks were awful.  Noise level is bad.  Engine is weak.  I think they did fix their transmission problems but I think they still have head gasket problems.  So we bought a used Toyota Sienna.  4 years old, low kms, loaded and priced well within your budget.  

A neighbor bought a 2008 Grand Caravan, and had nothing but trouble with it
(brakes, etc.). I too have heard mixed opinions about this mini-van.
I understand that the transmission issues were fixed a few years ago.
Certainly cheap now with all the dealer incentives...
But will this manufacturer be in business in the next few years?
Parts?

Toyotas: Usually very reliable, however I have noticed that a few people
at work have been complaining about issues and quality lately.

Hondas: probably the better choice and high reliability/resale value.
But quite expensive to purchase.

How about a used 2008 Ford Taurus X ?

Cheers,
- Sylvain.

I too will never buy GM again (even though I loved my Silverado; the past two vehicles, an Optra and an Uplander Van were lemons), and as far as vans go, I must say that if such a thing as "Stow and Go" seating still exists, it is a huge bonus for "conversion" to a pinball hauler.  Or if that doesn't justify what else may be inadequate, just get a trailer hitch and rent a decent covered trailer.  Out next vehicle will likely be a Toyota or Hyundai (why buy Korean from GM?), maybe, just maybe a Ford.

Ford's are junk.  I would buy a GM before I step foot on a Ford dealership.

check out the new toyota venza, it's like toyota's version of the nissan murano

or the new rav4 big enough to fit a pinball machine, and it's got all wheel drive

Eric

Quoted from pinsRfun

Ford's are junk.

Yes and No.

We have a 12-year 'young' Ford Taurus wagon with 223K km.

Sure, there has been a few repairs lately, but it has been a useful family car and great pin hauler over the years.
I have carried 100s of pins and vids, one or two at a time in there, sometimes pulling a U-Haul trailer with this car,
in the last 12 years.

We too are looking at replacing it soon... But I do not know how much longer I will be staying employed
in this known high-tech company... So holding-off buying a vehicule for now...


Cheers,
- Sylvain.

Quoted from thunderstorm

check out the new toyota venza, it's like toyota's version of the nissan murano

or the new rav4 big enough to fit a pinball machine, and it's got all wheel drive

Eric

Prices???

...none are under 35000 in there.

I, too, am in the market for a new truck.

I was looking at a used 2008 Jeep Commander, good vehicle for the price.

Or I might wait a few months and buy myself a used Hummer H3T (these are the pick-up versions on the famous and popular H3).

Anyone care for a good 2005 black Nissan x-trail, awd with 93000 km on it?

For you Sparky...cheap!!! Cheap!!! Cheap!!!!

tartagliag

Quoted from Azatotht

So i need one able to fit 3 baby-seats/boosters with still enough room to carry everything else that comes with them (we travel a lot).

We had the same requirements.
We actually measured the width of 3 car seats
and took a measuring tape to the dealership.

Surprisingly few vans/SUV now have the 3-seat middle seat,
opting for 2 captains chair.

We did not want to use up the back seat
as we wanted that for cargo space.

We ended-up with a Honda Pilot   (... but that was more than Sparky's $25K limit... )

Steph

Quoted from pinsRfun

Ford's are junk.  I would buy a GM before I step foot on a Ford dealership.

Don't get either one!!!

Dodge Rams are NOT cheap on gas, even with the 'econo cylindre mode'

Not to be an a$$, but to be honest, I think that what you're looking for doesn't exist...period...

Why I say that? ALL cars have their lemons...Subaru, Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Mazda, "formerly known as Big-3", the Koreans, the Germans...

For a 'single-pin' haul, then you have options under $25K (you'll need a tape measure to ensure a WPC pin fits!!!):

- Mazda 5 (I know, I know, but it's not a crappy MPV...and a WPC fits!!!)
- Kia Rondo (may fit?)
- Hyundai Santa Fe
- Hyundai Tuscon / Kia Sportage (IIRC, WPC doesn't fit)
- Nissan Rogue (WPC won't fit)
- Toyota Matrix (WPC won't fit)
- Honda Element (might be slightly over $25K now)
- Ford Escape (was elegantly surprised by my nephew's '09 Escape...not bad at all!)
- American minivans are cheap now...but quality sux

Seriously, why do you need the machine to 'fit' in the car??? get yourself a dependable 'cheap' vehicle and an enclosed trailer (a la Phil)

I had the same thought as you when I picked up my X-Trail (which I still love and have way more KMs that tartagliag!), when, honestly, I should have paid off the remaining 30 months on my Accord Coupe (with a trailer hitch) and buy a trailer...my car payments are killing me...at least I only have 17 months to go...

For the amount of times you haul pins, is it REALLY a necessity???

Mes deux cennes,

Frosken

P.S.: An X-Trail might be a good "used" option...they are relatively cheap, reliable and a WPC fits well..except if you have a Bally (like Motordome generation), better get your tools to remove the head!

Quoted from Steph

We had the same requirements.
We actually measured the width of 3 car seats
and took a measuring tape to the dealership.

Surprisingly few vans/SUV now have the 3-seat middle seat,
opting for 2 captains chair.

We did not want to use up the back seat
as we wanted that for cargo space.

We ended-up with a Honda Pilot   (... but that was more than Sparky's $25K limit... )

Steph

We had the 8-seater Toyota Sienna (3 captain seats at the back) and it worked just great. We now have the Quest; excellent has well, except for one minor issue compared to the Sienna. The 3rd row could be folded 60/40 in the Sienna (great for riding the whole family and bringing a pinball at the same time). We can't do this in the Quest, the 3rd row folds complete.

By the way, if you want a great van with exceptional gas mileage, go with the Sienna. It is unbelievable.

tartagliag

Everyone likes their own brands. I had a brand new f150 lariat back in 07 I couldn't stand it, I gave it to one of my salesman. Also had a dodge dakota before and that truck was a POS.

I currently have a 93 sierra w/ 393,000km on it, a 98 sierra with 524,000km on it and a 08 silverado with 30000km on it. The 93 and 98 have never let me down, both still have original motors/transmissions in them. Buy what has been reliable for you and what you like, who cares what others think.

Quoted from frosken

- Hyundai Tuscon / Kia Sportage (IIRC, WPC doesn't fit)

I beg to differ, World Cup Soccer fit very nicely in my Tucson.

My wife currently drives a Grand Caravan.... I leave the first (middle) row of seats in all the time, and still have enough room for 2 (80's style) pins.  the length of a pin fits perfectly with the Grand Caravan.

I have never had trouble with my van.... and it currently has 260,000km on it.  Back in the early/mid 1990's all Chrysler small trucks and vans had transmission problems... but in 1997/98 they corrected the issue and they run like a dream.

the only real problem is that, as a guy, you really do look like a girl private driving one!!!!  That's why I gave it to my wife to drive, while I have the LOADED Grand Prix    

Good luck with your purchase.

I rent Caravan's all the time on the road. 7 Pax seating, stow and go, drives like a car and always seems to be a good overall workhorse. I have rented that Toyota POS van before for twice as much and totally disliked it, took it back and asked for the Dodge.

For the price I think it's a good mini van and when compared to a Toyota for way more money made it appear even more worthwhile.

The only negative I would say is the stow away seats raise the floor so adults in the back seats knees tend to be off the cushion and a little too raised for comfort.

Sparky, do yourself a favour and test drive a Suzuki SX4 hatchback.. sadly, it's just 8" shy of fitting a pin lengthwise, but man.. what a cool little machine for the price.  It was a toss up between that and the Mazda 3 for us.. the only reason we went with the Mazda 3 in the end was they were the only guys with 0% financing at the time (Suzuki was 1.9%)

Still some incredible design in that car.

My Dad has bought 3 Caravans and he is super cheap and super picky. He seems to like them, and they are great room wise.

I wouldn't buy a Ford, as they seem to be made of the same steel as the Mazdas - 50% rust by volume.

Just came back from Toyota. Totally unflexible on price. I even asked the salesman why they have him there, since the price on the web is the price, period. They even wanted 6000$ cash down on a Matrix.  

Neeeeext.

I will go see what Chrysler has to offer tomorrow. If not good... simple. I keep the MPV and roll it until it croaks, rust and all.

I ended up buying a Honda Pilot last summer. It has proved to be a good pin-hauler. As Steph mentioned it is pricey but you might get a decent price on a slightly used one.

I find Chrysler mini-vans (used to drive one for work and often rent one on business trips) have too many little things that end up annoying the hell out of me. The fit and finish inside is cheap and lower quality then the imports (unfortunately). Anyone have one that doesn't suffer from break squeal - cheap and undersized breaking components for such a heavy vehicle.

As for Toyota, I agree, impossible to negotiate with - take it or leave it was my experience last summer. They make great vehicles and they know it.

Quoted from tom_454

I find Chrysler mini-vans (used to drive one for work and often rent one on business trips) have too many little things that end up annoying the hell out of me. The fit and finish inside is cheap and lower quality then the imports (unfortunately). Anyone have one that doesn't suffer from break squeal - cheap and undersized breaking components for such a heavy vehicle.

I don't mind ''plasticky'' interiors... As for the brakes, I can change a set of front brakes on an older Caravan in 20 minutes, and they are cheap, so no worries. But I hear they got an upgrade on brakes for 2009.

But... I won't lie... a HUGE Grand Caravan would be nice for the Allentown trip!

Don't even look or think about a Dode RAM ,that SOB is one mother sucking gaz guzzler!! that 8-4 cyclender is buuuull crap!! My 2007 Ram does 9/mpg city and 18 mpg highway going 100km on cruse......if you do get one ,make sure you have a company gaz expence account!

2009 Jetta wagon TDI.. 34mpg city 49mpg highway and large enough for the whole family.
Plus 12 year corrosion perforation warranty.
Then buy a used trailer and/or rent a truck/van when you need it. That's my plan anyways.

Unless you're constantly hauling heavy loads buying a large vehicle just doesn't make sense IMO.

Guys, let's stop shooting ourselves in the foot. Go for the Caravan, espescially since it's assembled in Ontario. Let's keep canadians at work. Let's stop our decline. Many parts plants employs canadians and americans. And let's not forget that americans are our biggest clients for everything we produce here in canada.

Quoted from scribec

Guys, let's stop shooting ourselves in the foot. Go for the Caravan, espescially since it's assembled in Ontario. Let's keep canadians at work. Let's stop our decline. Many parts plants employs canadians and americans. And let's not forget that americans are our biggest clients for everything we produce here in canada.

I agree. To me this truck is very good value and besides, we want Sparky to have something big enough to haul all of our crap around in.

Quoted from necro_nemesis

I agree. To me this truck is very good value and besides, we want Sparky to have something big enough to haul all of our crap around in.

If a guy can ship me three playfields from Vancouver, I think you can also...   One thing is for sure, I won't be doing a run like I did for a long time... it cost me too much.

If all you want is a pin hauler, you can spend a couple of grand on a used caravan.  If the main priority is a family vehicle with the option to move a pin when needed, go test drive the new caravan and a Toyota.  Granted, a 5 min test drive won't help you tell all the differences.  We've owned a Grand Caravan for years and it wasn't until we test drove a Sienna that we noticed how crappy a caravan really is.  Go drive a few and you'll see.

Quoted from pinsRfun

If all you want is a pin hauler, you can spend a couple of grand on a used caravan.  If the main priority is a family vehicle with the option to move a pin when needed, go test drive the new caravan and a Toyota.  Granted, a 5 min test drive won't help you tell all the differences.  We've owned a Grand Caravan for years and it wasn't until we test drove a Sienna that we noticed how crappy a caravan really is.  Go drive a few and you'll see.

A Sienna with the same equipment as on a Grand Caravan is 13000$ more right now. 'Nuff said.

And I have tried a new Caravan already. My wife has had them as business vehicles since 2001 and I noticed a HELL of a difference between the new model and the previous generation. A LOT less body roll­.

And as I mentioned to others... it is a frickin minivan... don't expect a Cadillac-like ride.

And my main motivation ios the second scenario. I want a good vehicle to move my family around in, and maybe occasionally move a machine. I don't own any more pins now, and the vids I have are vids, thus near worthless, and I have little time to play, so other than 1 pin I promised to purchase, nothing is coming in.

Are you going to have your new van lettered and painted with the colors and logo of MAACA? It would be good marketing.

Quoted from Sparky

And my main motivation ios the second scenario. I want a good vehicle to move my family around in, and maybe occasionally move a machine. I don't own any more pins now, and the vids I have are vids, thus near worthless, and I have little time to play, so other than 1 pin I promised to purchase, nothing is coming in.

You sold all your pins again?  Jeeze, Sparky.. you're the king of "getting out"  

Quoted from scribec

Are you going to have your new van lettered and painted with the colors and logo of MAACA? It would be good marketing.

Excellent marketing idea, for Sparky's pinball playfield and cabinet restoration !
Now, that MAACA logo needs to have a real coin slot (with no screw!) on the MAACA-mobile vehicule

Cheers,
- Sylvain.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

Quoted from machine.slave

You sold all your pins again?  Jeeze, Sparky.. you're the king of "getting out"  

No... just the king of why bother... I fix stuff 2-3 hours every night... no time to play.

Came back from Chrysler...of course, refinancing the MPV is killer. Payments would be 250$ every 2 weeks. That's a lot of playfields...

I will think about it over the next few days.

And no... no lettering. It is my family vehicle. If I wanted strictly a pin-hauler, I would by a Ford Transit.

As much as i hate North American cars... I drove a 2008 or 2009 Dodge mini van from here to thunder bay and back. We had the car LOADED with 4 people and ALL of there kit (heavy). I can not remember the particular model, but it was one of the "Flex Fuel" versions designed to run well on today's Ethanol blends.

as far as i can remember, the mileage on this van, LOADED with weight, up an d down HUGE hills (anyone who has driven to Thunder Bay knows what I mean) was SPETACULAR!  I think it was something like 300km for 30 bucks at the pump.

Hope that helps.

Quoted price for a Grand Caravan 25th anniversary edition with dual climate zone control, power side doors, 17'' mags and Stow-N-Go seats was 22090$+tx... damn good.

I will sleep on it.

Quoted from Sparky

Came back from Chrysler...of course, refinancing the MPV is killer. Payments would be 250$ every 2 weeks. That's a lot of playfields...

I will think about it over the next few days.

And no... no lettering. It is my family vehicle. If I wanted strictly a pin-hauler, I would by a Ford Transit.

Personalized plate at least?

Is "Pinhead" taken?  I'm sure it'd be mistaken for a Hellraiser reference though.  

EastSide

The dual climate control works well. If it's just like the one I had you actually have 3 zones. Driver, passenger and rear control. Driver can override the rear by turning it on and setting it at the front, making it kid proof. If you select it off on the dash then the rear controller has control of that zone.

I've got a 2006 Grand Caravan and hauling pins was one of the main reasons I bought it. The stow and go seats are great. Can drop the seats on one side to get a machine in and still carry the kids one behind the other airline seat style on the other side. I've had three pins (EM's) in at once without the kids and I think I could probably get four in without much problem. No major issues with the vehicle either.

Quoted from EastSiderGamer

Personalized plate at least?

Is "Pinhead" taken?  I'm sure it'd be mistaken for a Hellraiser reference though.  

EastSide

No personalized plates in QC.

Well, I was leaning towards keeping the MPV for another year and lower my debt ratio, but the piece of mess decided otherwise. My overdrive light started flashing yesterday, but only for 10 minutes. Transmission electrical problem. I checked it out with my scanner... I suspect it is the ECM. I called Mazda today... 800$ + 200$ labor.

Over my dead frickin body.


Chrysler, here I come.

Good choice. But hurry before they go bankrupt.

Quoted from Sparky

No personalized plates in QC.

Ah that's right.....but couldn't you have a European style plate done up with MAACA on it and pop it on the front like a lot of Quebecers do?

But I suppose a European plate on the front of North American Car would just look silly.  Especially a Mini Van.

So much for that.

EastSide

Done deal. I am getting a 2009 Grand Caravan. To be picked up soon. They are getting it from another dealership, and they will install a few options I asked for. Looks like I will have a new vehicle to head down to Allentown with.

OPTIONS???   im in the auto accessory business......What did you get...and price  if you dont mind....it is off topic on this site!!!



CHEERS!

Quoted from Sparky

Done deal. I am getting a 2009 Grand Caravan. To be picked up soon. They are getting it from another dealership, and they will install a few options I asked for. Looks like I will have a new vehicle to head down to Allentown with.

You should head to Detroit first and load the van up with spare parts  

Quoted from crazy canuck

OPTIONS???   im in the auto accessory business......What did you get...and price  if you dont mind....it is off topic on this site!!!



CHEERS!

2009 GC SE Stow-N-Go with the 25th anniversary edition:

3.3L engine
17'' MAGS
Leather-wrapped steering wheel and shifter
Color-match door handles and moldings
CD-MP3
Cruise control
Radio controls on steering and at back
3-zone AC with independent controls at back
Storage bins
Center console
Remote starter
Power windows and locks (also on middle doors)
Full 5-year bumper-to-bumper warranty
... and a few other gadgets I don't remember.

23000$  

CANADIAN made,thank you.

Quoted from Sparky

23000$  

Can't go wrong for the money. That's a lot of vehicle for what your paying IMHO.

I have bought a few stripped down cargo vans before. Could never figure out why they wanted more for a stripped utility van with two vinyl seats than the same one with a full interior, windows all around and a bunch of options. I finally broke down and started buying white vans with all the windows which included the full interior and ripped it out.

Nuts!

Quoted from poolman

CANADIAN made,thank you.

That was a big factor for me... I checked. Built in Windsor.

Believe me (and my aching back) Caravan "Sto & Go" seats are worth the price of admission alone for those of us who "convert" their family vehicle for pinball runs.  My inlaws have one and although I wouldn't characterize it as the best ride, it certainly seems to have staying power, and those seats are a mavel (although the vehicle weight when loaded and gas mileage is affected).

Quoted from websherpa

Believe me (and my aching back) Caravan "Sto & Go" seats are worth the price of admission alone for those of us who "convert" their family vehicle for pinball runs.  My inlaws have one and although I wouldn't characterize it as the best ride, it certainly seems to have staying power, and those seats are a mavel (although the vehicle weight when loaded and gas mileage is affected).

Yeah... big for me AND my wife as well. Great for me when going for a quick pin-or-vid-run. My wife also LOVES the storage space it gives for all the kids' tous and diaper bag and all other stuff. The seats are not the most comfortable but they do the job.

The Mazda had a foldaway 3rd row seat which I LOVED. But the middle seats, although lighter beign captain seats, still had to be removed. REALLY cumbersome in the garage... a real pain.

As for ride quality... I find it hilarious when I hear auto-reviews from commentators on it's ride. Problem is that these people all want Porsche handling and Cadillac comfort, and anything less is unacceptable.

I would tell them "dudes... it's a minivan. It has a big a**, gets tossed around in high winds, handles great... in a straight line, and has less than 500hp. But I just want to go to work and back, move my family around, and be able to pick up some machines or materials without having anything stick out of a window or have a trunk open."

Consider my advice: go for the permanent anti-rust treatment. Your dealer probably offers it but I know that Ziebart do it also. We live in Quebec.

Quoted from Sparky

Problem is that these people all want Porsche handling and Cadillac comfort, and anything less is unacceptable.

Haven't run into many slaloms on the highway in all my years of driving. As long as a truck tracks well on the highway, rides smooth, can turn a corner at the specified speeds + a safe margin and is road quiet it gets my vote.

The only neg on the stow and go is the floor height I find. The seats tend to be shorter in the leg to accomodate for some of that storage area below, which lifts your legs off the cushion. Not a problem for kid's but for adults can make for a long ride if your stuck in the back.

Biggest anti rust action you can take is don't put the car in the garage. Thawing your car out daily is a body killer. I leave mine on the driveway all year round and they have held up much better than others.

Poor Sparky:

Chrysler contrainte de suspendre les activités de son usine de Windsor
1 avril 2009 - 13h09
  
Le fabricant d’automobiles Chrysler a indiqué mercredi qu’il était dans l’obligation de suspendre les activités de son usine de minifourgonnettes de Windsor, en Ontario.

Chrysler invoque une rupture de ses stocks de pièces, dont des moteurs en aluminium et des supports de transmission.

Congrats - Looks like a good deal and a lot of car/van for the $$$$.

Quoted from scribec

Poor Sparky:

Chrysler contrainte de suspendre les activités de son usine de Windsor
1 avril 2009 - 13h09
  
Le fabricant d’automobiles Chrysler a indiqué mercredi qu’il était dans l’obligation de suspendre les activités de son usine de minifourgonnettes de Windsor, en Ontario.

Chrysler invoque une rupture de ses stocks de pièces, dont des moteurs en aluminium et des supports de transmission.

No problem... my van is already on it's way to the dealership. And that would be the 4.0L engines... I have a good old 3.3L which they have been making for 15 years.

Quoted from Sparky

No problem... my van is already on it's way to the dealership. And that would be the 4.0L engines... I have a good old 3.3L which they have been making for 15 years.

CORRECTION: it IS at the dealership!!! Picking it up either tomorrow or Friday! Allentown on a fresh set of wheels!!! WOOHOO!!!!

Quoted from Sparky

That was a big factor for me... I checked. Built in Windsor.

Why is that since  the big 3 (well 2 of them any way) have announced their possible demise have people started to buy American?

Quoted from 1

Why is that since  the big 3 (well 2 of them any way) have announced their possible denise have people started to buy American?

PRICE. Just like when a collector announces he has had a string of bad luck and sells his pins cheap... the vultures start circling! I am not worried though... my warranty is assured by the creditor. So no problems.

Parts availability? Not a problem either... with the quantity of these vehicles on the road, jobbers will come up with parts as there is money to be made there. But again, that is getting ahead of ourselves a bit. Chrysler was in a similar situation in the 80's and pulled through.

I am picking it up today after lunch! WOOHOO!!! They even are throwing in a Challenger toy car for my son, who saw it in a display case when we went to the dealer on Wednesday... awesome service so far. Can't complain!!!

And if anyone else is looking for a car, go to Des Sources Dodge in Dollard-Des-Ormeaux and ask for Zack. Great salesguy. Tell him I sent you.

So, how's the new PinballMobile going?

Quoted from scribec

So, how's the new PinballMobile going?

103kms of pure satisfaction!!!

DAMN it is HUGE!!!

3 pins would fit... maybe even 4!!

Quoted from Sparky

3 pins would fit... maybe even 4!!

is that just on the inside or is the 4th on the roof?  You could easily haul another +2 with today's more modern, tougher strap & tie downs.  

seriously, enjoy the new car sensation while you can.