This review is mostly going to contrast The Addams Family and Twilight Zone, as the *common* debate seems to be which is the number #1.  Well, in my humble opinion, it is easily TAF, and I’ll explain in a long winded way why, which I’m sure no one will care about enough to read anyway.  I am not here to bash TZ.  It is a great game, but it is NO TAF, and is clearly built off TAF in every way.

I'm not looking to p**S anyone off, as I know there are a lot of people who place this game as the best ever.  I'm just amazed at some of the below.  As some of you might know, I recently received one of these.  I have had a TAF for about 4-5 months now, and played both "back in the day", but played TAF much more even then.  

People complain Lawlor games are all the same.  They are not, but there are similarities, drop holes part way up the PF to one side, and a few other things.  However, as with these two games, TZ might as well been called TAF II, and a weaker version at that.  If this wasn’t made by the same guy, TZ would have broke very copyright law imaginable for a pinball machine.  I understand TZ was a celebration of past success to some point, and as such, there are audio from all games, but the gameplay is exactly like TAF.  Slot machine / electric chair, cellar / piano, mansion / door, end with question mark, independent three ball mulitball of the main goals, high/low regular/short upper flippers, two ramps, common loop etc.  Of course, many games have similar features, however the fact that so many are the EXACT same is why I’m pointing this out.

So the windows operate the same, you have two places, as noted, to hit to light a window, only difference being on TZ one is random, one lights the flashing window (as with both in TAF).  You re-light these via ramps – same more or less.  The games themselves in TZ are weaker all in all then TAF, and this is of course subjective opinion.  There are two separate modes to hit the clock, same shot, shoot it multiple times....  there isn’t enough stuff to make another mode???  Here we go:
Slot machine / tunnel hunt:  shoot slot machine over and over verses try to hit all three drop holes on TAF, TAF better.

Seance / Spiral: I like the magnet holding the ball in spiral, but Seance is more fun, and you get the magnets going in the PF.  Seance wins.

Thing Multiball / Fast lane:  One shot, time counts down, getting it gives countdown reward, and initiates a two different sequences.  TAF shot is easier to hit once in control of the ball, however the time countdown is faster.  TAF wins this again purely on the music and increasing volume of hitting in my book... “and that’s not all!”

Cousin It / Clock Chaos / Clock Millions:  Although there are two clock modes/windows, I like trying to shoot them, and I like the speeding up of the music in Chaos.  However, I like the challenge of banking shots off the bookcase in TAF to hit cousin it.  I think I would give this one to TAF for originality of the shot, but they are both close in my book.

Town Madness / Mamushka: everything you hit scores points for a certain time.  I like the sounds in TAF, however I like the people screaming in chaos more in TZ.  I would give TZ the edge in this one.  Yes, standard type of mode for many games, but again, pointing out ALL the similarities that make these two the same.

10M TZ / 9/6/3M TAF: again, another common mode in games, and I guess somewhat different in these two as TAF has three, and TZ’s can be obtained from a skill shot.  I point this out though, as both are windows, and can be obtained through the regular lit window way as well.
Extra ball: of course, common, but none the less, another window in each.  Obviously this is a staple though.

“?” question mark when all windows lit: again, light all windows, obtain “?”, start all over.  Same thing.  Tour the mansion compared to lost in the zone are somewhat different you might add, but again, they both do the “go through all modes again” idea.  TZ lights everything and gives you a timed play with all 6 balls, and then goes dead, which I have to say is VERY fun to play.  TAF lights the windows of the non-“things to do” modes, and goes through the rest one after the other.  They are both fun, however the tour lasts longer, and is hard, I find, to complete without draining.  Would be nice if there was a little something at the end for doing it (maybe there is, I have done this a couple times, but nothing special happened).  I’m not sure who I would give the nod to here, one short but very exciting, one longer, but fun to try to do before draining.

There are more windows in TZ, and more actual modes with mini objectives, however as a whole, they don’t, nor do the lights and music associated, excite me as much as the fewer TAF ones....  I mean Skill shot... WTF?  Hit a ramp......  “This shot requires skill, super skill”.  Hit the left ramp is the best skill shot they could come up with here???  Oh yes, hit the relatively easy shooter lane skill shot for an extra ball after, still too easy.  Why not a combo ramp/target, such as right spiral and piano, or something that, oh you know, TAKES SKILL.  The Camera awards are a nice touch, but could the sounds/music be more boring?  Perfect segue into my next topic...

Sound / Music: TAF by the landslide, bar none.  I still think TAF has the best music/sounds of any game made, albeit the limitations of the voice recordings dates this machine, but the music and sounds are what really drive you and keep you excited in this game.  As in music (songs), there are “hooks” that reel you in, and make you like a song, and there are many musical hooks in TAF that really add to the overall experience.  TZ is so light with respect to this it leaves me wondering why.  Everything else of TZ was an attempt at a better TAF essentially (yes it was!), but the sounds and music was a clear let down.  They both have their theme’s music, but TAF has all these other mode sounds/music which has nothing to do with The Addams Family, and is great.  TZ’s is rather mundane, all things considered.  There is nothing better for me than turning the lights off and cranking the sound.  My wife actually likes the TZ more because she can’t hear it as much upstairs.  You aren’t p**sing off my wife TZ, shame.

Jackpot – hmmm similarity again?  You betcha. Come from around one side of the loop, shoot the upper flipper for a side target – piano TZ / train or left ramp TAF.  Both are fun, and compound differently, and can be reloaded, but there is no finer sound than hearing Rual Julie scream “Triple Jackpot!!!”  TAF wins this easy.  Not to mention the sounds, and complete spazzing of the lights upon hitting jackpot.  Not to mention further you have the magnets in The Power going as well, which is flat out neato.

Mulitball – another staple, lock two balls (or 1-2 in TZ) and hit something to start.  The door DMD animation is ok, but it’s NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING, compared to the “Now you’ve done it.... SHOWTIME”.  I don’t care how many times you have played this game, and watch this part, with all the lights going crazy, and the booming thunder, it always brings a smile to my face.  TAF by a loooong shot.

There are the differences, which of course there would be (umm....right?), which aren’t always game flow oriented, and do not do enough to make TZ seem like it was not built solely off TAF:

Powerball: obvious popular difference, and very well so, it’s fast, it’s fun, it’s not even a pinball!  Love it - “Put it back... it’s not yours”.  Wow, something TAF didn’t have, or have a similar object/mode too.  Good job...

Shooter skill shot:  Reduced shot in TAF into the hole in front of Thing.  TZ, reduced speed shot, but with the three stage bar awarding more points and “bumpers” the closer you get to the hole, then rocket out into the PF.  I like the skill shot in TAF, but I would definitely give the nod to TZ here for originality.  Ranks up there with the Taxi skill shot for that.  However, it does seem very easy to continually get “yellow/10M/3 bumpers”.   TAF’s skill shot, once you get good at it, becomes easy too.  Ok, so there are two “gameplay” differences.

On an off note, just to throw a jab at new Sterns, can’t they learn that lane changer skill shots, have no skill, and try to get a little creative....  I know this is a tangent, but why are games 20 years old still looking more ahead of their time then current Sterns?  I applaud them for keeping the pinball dream alive, but can we apply a little effort please, and stop making Lamborghinis that drive like golf carts.  This is for the most part,  I do like a few, quite a lot.  Neither here nor there anyway with regards to the point in all of this.

The Power: cool, but after a while it just doesn’t do anything for me.  I mean, I like playing it, but I don’t look forward to it, or strive to get it.  I like that it awards a window for winning it, that is a nice touch.

Thing Hand / Gumball Machine: the definitive toy in each.  Both cool in their own respect.  I am so used to both, but I think the hand is more interesting to me, but this is a moot point.  This doesn’t matter, as they are both very cool toys, and both fit the theme, and work into the actual game, which is something I wish new Stern would learn to do instead of just gluing actions figures all around the PF.  I can say that anyone who comes over and plays, who doesn’t know pinball is always more thrilled by the hand, likely because it is hidden until they invoke it.  I don’t know, both are great.

Ball draining:  I read a few reviews on IPDB that said that TAF was a drainer.  CLEARLY this person has never tried TZ.. I sometimes feel like I need to take a break and play 10 min on an old EM for a little ball time....  The slot machine might as well be under the pop bumpers, as you more or less pull the arm, and see what happens, drain or game continues.  Percentage seems so close some games.  Not to mention the ball drains in the middle a lot.  It you don’t get it right into the camera/hitchhiker, it rolls out straight at the right lane drain.  I think this is a legitimate complaint, as I can more or less get LITZ every day I play for a good chunk of time, but there are so many games that seem to start out with skillshot/rocket/bumpers/drain, skillshot/rocket/bumpers/drain, skillshot/rocket/bumpers/drain.  I don’t find you can control the ball as well as in TAF, but again, I have owned that for longer.

I do like that the slot machine drop hole as it is narrower than the eclectic chair, making it more of a challenge.  I love the artwork on both, but I like the TAF PF more.  The Mansion is really cool to me.  I like the widebody design more, much more, so much so that I feel like my TAF (or any other pin) is cramped if I play after the TZ.

Extraball buy in: more of a feature for actually making money I’m sure, I feel dirty when using it, but when you are one window from LITZ, it sure is hard not to hit.

I don’t know what else I missed.  I like the magnets in the spiral, cool addition.  I like loading the gumball.  I like TZ, a lot.  But I love TAF, and the more I play other games, the more I think that this is clearly the best pin ever.  Don’t confuse this with a bitching about the TZ.  I state this only to make my point that *I* think TAF is better (between the two), and the TZ is TAF II game play wise.  

I find it hard to believe people call this deep, or too complicated, but mention nothing about TAF in this way, as they are both so similar.  There are more things to do in TZ, but I think the instructions are straight forward...  I mean the cards say hit the lit holes, reload via ramps... if you did nothing else but continued to do that, you would get LITZ.  I think with TAF, its more newbie friendly, as getting the first multiball is relatively easy, and has a big theatrical payoff.  My kids love it, but will not play TZ for long, as they can’t achieve anything worthwhile to them.  TZ is an experienced players game, that has been said, but I still think, considering how it was clearly built off TAF, could have done more, and been better.  I’m not trying to push my belief, there are many great games, and this is one.  This is just my opinion.

And you do own both games, so that is a very fair opinion.
Thanks for the comprehensive write-up!

Pete

BTW I want both of these games someday!

Interesting opinions. I owned TAF and liked it very much but I sold it because of this:

Quoted Text

I mean the cards say hit the lit holes, reload via ramps... if you did nothing else but continued to do that, you would get LITZ.

You say that about TZ but it was even more true of TAF. In TAF all there is is:
-Hit ramp, then hit chair
-Hit bookcase over and over to start multiball
-In multiball, hit ramp over and over
-The thing flipper is used to hit the swamp which only gives you points, yawn

In TZ there is so much more:
-Hit left ramp to lite the piano, hit the piano with the small flipper. Similar shot to the Thing flipper shot, but more fun than hitting the swamp since it does more than just give you points.
-Hit right ramp to lite slot machine which gives random door panel. Strategy enters here, do you want a random door panel, or the currently lit one? This will determine what you will want to shoot, piano or slot.
-You've got ramp and lock shots to build towards camera awards
-There's hitchhikers that lead to fighting the power on the miniplayfield (such a fun diversion!)
-There's the normal multiball which is more difficult to start than in TAF, but therefore it's much more rewarding.
-There's the powerball, which is just crazy awesome and unique. This leads to a second mutliball mode, powerball multiball. Getting jackpots in this is zany, totally unique in pinball (not just shoot the side ramp like in most Lawlor pins).
-No Thing!!!! This was the second reason I sold my TAF. While Thing was an amazing toy that got people to spend quarters, at home, it gets tiring really fast.

The two areas that TAF beats TZ is the pop bumper placement and the skill shot. TZ has a poor skillshot. You're rewarded by having the ball sent to the pop bumpers which may randomly drain the ball down the left outlane. This is the only downside to TZ that I can think of.

TAF is great but I see TZ as a natural progression from it. It has taken what was good about TAF, but added more complexity and depth. This isn't good for pin newbs, but it's great for collectors/home owners.

Yes, TAF has the same ramp/lit hole, however what I’m saying is the modes are much more fun, IMO, and the sounds and excitement of it all, adds to a much better experience.  

I don’t know about strategy with random/lit window selection.  I think everyone more or less tried to grab whatever they can when lit or given to them, and play that mode, and get to the LITZ.  I can’t recall ever deciding to aim for the pop bumpers to cycle the window choices for strategy.  As for the piano shot, I think the graveyard shot is more fun, and harder than the piano, and the fact that thing flips adds to that, makes it better.  I have not owned it for as long as you though, and I’m sure all pins have aspects that get tiring, so I’ll have to see.

There is of course more to do, but that’s expected in a game worked of the gameplay of another.  

I said I like the powerball, its great, and TZ is great.  I just firmly believe this is TAF II, but that TAF still provides a better all in all experience.  Again, this is IMO, and I’m looking forward to all the conflicting opinions   TZ is a progression, but I think, as far as fun modes, and definitely sound and music, if does not equal TAF.

Of note, MPAumsements, when shipping me the TZ, noted that I had a TAF, and said they can’t get them at all as no one parts with them, and offered me cash on the spot of it.  Given the 5,000 units difference, that’s quite a statement alone...

Quoted from Atomicboy

On an off note, just to throw a jab at new Sterns, can’t they learn that lane changer skill shots, have no skill, and try to get a little creative....

Off the top of my head:

LOTR - you can choose your skill shot via the plunger.
TSPP - multiple skill shots none are lane change
Monopoly - multiple skill shots

So not ALL Sterns use the lane change as a skill shot.

I respect your opinion on TAF. Haven't read the whole thing in detail. My opinion is the exact opposite. I won't write a book on it, though I bought a TAF and couldn't sell it fast enough. Loved it in the arcade. Wanted one badly. Finally decided to pony up the money. After one night of play, I knew it had to go. Too easy and too repetitive. Too easy to complete the wizard mode -- multiple times. Many of the "modes" are simply awards. I could go on. Alright game and I enjoy playing it once in a while, but I certainly don't miss it.

I've had TZ since I starting collecting and that's over 10 years. I love the game and it will never leave. Great theme, great music, great lights, awesome multiple ball, awesome toys, etc.

Duane

Haven't owned either so my judgement is based on playing them at multiple locations on TOPL nights... really didn't care for either for the longest time ... recently warmed up to TZ and would like to own one at some point ... still not a fan of TAF

Duane,

I noted a few Sterns that I do like, and yes some do not have the same old lane changer skill shot, but many do, and they do just glue a bunch of action figures to a game to liven it up.  

I don't want to change the subject of this post, but take my F14, glue a bunch of GIJoes to it in random spots, and you more or less have a better version of IM.

Again, I don't want to bash Stern, as without them it would be whole different game right now, but I think there are some easy improvements to get past the issues most people do have with their new games.

From what I have read TZ was the game where Pat Lawlor was given full rein on the design as a reward for his enormous success with TAF.

Usually designers will have a certain percentage of their ideas vetoed.

Naturally there will be similarities as Lawlor has a very distinct design philosophy which is clearly apparent in FH as well. The difference is that the product evolved and new mechanisms were designed and later products patented. In fact the clock was designed for FH but was axed due to it taking them over budget.

I like TZ due in part to the theme but TAF is a good game as well.  Plus ideas like the Powerball, Gumball Machine, Clock, Powerfield make the difference for me

I thought I read TAF was the first game Lawlor had complete control over?  I may be wrong.  I like them both too, don't get me wrong.

TZ has more "things" for sure, I just don't think it changes the fact that the gameplay, again as a whole, not as lively and fun, IMO.

Quoted from Atomicboy

I don't want to change the subject of this post, but take my F14, glue a bunch of GIJoes to it in random spots, and you more or less have a better version of IM.

I'll take the bait. Comparing IM to F14 is like comparing a Porsche to a Volkswagon. Both German cars, but radically different.

IM is an absolute blast to play and has amazing flow. F14 has no flow whatsoever. With F14, the game is shallow as can be. It's a System 11 and I certainly wouldn't compare it to IM. Not in the same league at all. F14 is fun for about 2 games -- at least for me. IM keeps me coming back. Would love to own one some day.

I now have 4 Sterns in my collection of just over 15, the best are Bally or Williams. I absolutely love what Stern has produced. Without a doubt, the best of Stern is easily as good, if not better than the best of Williams. In my mind, the best of Stern are (and not in order): LOTR, TSPP, Spiderman, Iron Man, and Elvis. Other greats include POTC, Family Guy/Shrek. All amazing games.

To each his own, but to compare F14 to Iron Man is beyond ludicrous.

Duane

Well, maybe I haven't spent enough time playing Sterns.  I like LOTR, TSPP, I am not a fan of Spiderman movies, but I like the game, but above that, I am not that impressed with their games, compared to WPC ones.  I don't like all the photographed PF's.  

I appreciate your opinion, they have good games, but I would definitely say the best WPC games are far greater then the best Stern has put out.

I still prefer my F14 over IM, sorry.  Faster, more fun, one trick pony, but fun getting there, and great light show.  IM has bored me everytime I have been to SB lately, and I haven't touched it the last two times I was there at all.  I don't like all their useless toys, the make most games look, to me, like they are trying to attract a very young croud.  

It doesnt matter which one you buy......All Lawlor games are the same......BORING

Quoted from Atomicboy

I still prefer my F14 over IM, sorry.  Faster, more fun, one trick pony, but fun getting there, and great light show.  IM has bored me everytime I have been to SB lately, and I haven't touched it the last two times I was there at all.  I don't like all their useless toys, the make most games look, to me, like they are trying to attract a very young croud.  

I'll agree to that! I'd take an F-14 over an IM any day. IM = frustrating snooze fest.

I like to keep a Steve Ritchie game next to a Lawlor one just to mix things up.

You know pinball is in a sad state when people compare two 19-year-old games as if they were the total shiznit.  

The huge problem with these comparisons is that it's all about taste, which cannot be debated.

This being said, I am not a huge fan of either.

Quoted Text

  This being said, I am not a huge fan of either.  

But Sparky we want to know how Genesis holds up to these games.  

Quoted from Hippochrome

It doesnt matter which one you buy......All Lawlor games are the same......BORING

I have owned TZ, TAF,TAFG, NGG, ES, RBION and Monopoly and I find that all Lawlor games have a similar feel and same basic layout. Sure the toys change and so does the theme, but they all feel similar to me and for a reason I cannot define, I quickly loose interest when playing this pins. Glad to hear i am not the only one that feels that way.

Quoted from jonny_eh

I'll agree to that! I'd take an F-14 over an IM any day. IM = frustrating snooze fest.

See if you still agree when you sell it -- you will eventually, take my word on that.

Duane

Two words: Stop & Go

Ritchie is the opposite: Non-stop flow

If shiznit is good, then that's right!

Again, in everything I have read, and in a lot of the IPDB reviews of either, there are always comparisons, as they have been changing #1 and #2 position in the rankings for a while now, and it seems to be the more common debate.

Quoted from wbradley

I like to keep a Steve Ritchie game next to a Lawlor one just to mix things up.

I like keep my Neyens next to my Trudeaus but prefer to keep my Ritchie separated by a Krynski. A Fernendez or Norris is an acceptable temporary general buffer pin. But now I need a Joos.

Quoted from wbradley

I like to keep a Steve Ritchie game next to a Lawlor one just to mix things up.

Huh? Mix things up??

OK...

I own a Harry Williams game, 2 George Christian games, a Barry Oursler/Joe Kaminkow game, a Jim Patla game, a Ward Pemberton game and a Larry Hutcherson game.

No Ritchie or Lawlor games here.

... actually, there is a BK2K at home, but I just work on it. I don't personally like it at all.

Quoted from Atomicboy

I appreciate your opinion, they have good games, but I would definitely say the best WPC games are far greater then the best Stern has put out.

And I appreciate your opinion. At the end of the day, we clearly have different opinions. There is no middle ground. For me, F-14 is one of the worst System 11s. Not the worst, that would be Millionaire, but certainly F-14 is at the bottom. I've owned a couple and don't miss them. In my opinion, TAF is a fairly basic pin. It's decent, but not great -- to me. I understand why TAF sold so well. The theme is excellent and the game is pretty straight forward. Even a newbie, like I was back when it came out, can have a decent game on it.

I also think Stern games are as good and, in some cases, better than the best Williams produced. This is from a player's perspective. I'm looking at the rules as opposed to the artwork -- although I would say there are a few great looking Stern games as well.

The rules are just incredible on many of Stern games and this makes for an incredible home game.

I would also add there are some real deals in the used market. Thanks to folks that don't give the games a chance, you can buy a HUO Ripleys or T3 cheap and both are fantastic games. I picked up a HUO T3 for less than $2,500 CDN everything in. I love the game. Many don't like the look of the playfield and cabinet -- I agree they are pretty basic and actually don't really like the playfield look, but the game is so FAST and FUN!


To each his own.

Cheers,
Duane

Quoted from wbradley

But Sparky we want to know how Genesis holds up to these games.  

Genesis kicks TZ and TAF's asses COMBINED. Lawlor and Ritchie are no match for the midget!!!

Quoted from TwilightZone

See if you still agree when you sell it -- you will eventually, take my word on that.

Duane

Ya, I probably won't own F-14 forever, but I'd still rather own it over IM. Playing IM feels like work, it's not fun IMHO.

Umm, you forgot Borg, Kordek, D'Angelo, Gomez, Sharpe, Oursler, Phutz, Sheats, Langlois...you still have a lot of pins to purchase!

Yes... I am not a fan of Ritchie and Lawlor games... BUT... I like Dolly Parton, Genesis, Future Spa, Time Fantasy and Scorpion. So I am not much of a reference when it comes to pinball tastes!

Duane, I have not played all Sterns, honestly just the ones that SB has had in the last couple months or so, and I have not had the oppertunity to really feel them out or explore everything.  My comments just come from the limited time playing, so that may change.  I hadn't played CV or TOTAN until the Toronto Pinball show though, and loved the hell out of them within a few games, that is what I go on.

The artwork to me is important to some degree, as I have all of these in my games room, pool table, large bar, big screem and such, so I have to look at them.  I don't have a dedicated pin room.  That is why in a previous thread I said I could never on STTNG, can't stand ST, and would have to look at it.  I think that is why a lot of people don't like TAF, and I understand.  The theme, regardless of the play, is going to be a part to some degree for some people.  

I mean, regardless if you like Lawlor or not, and regardless of how you feel about Funhouse as a game, I'm sure there are lots of people out there that can't play or own this because of that creepy head and BG.  If I brought one of those in my house, my girls would not sleep until it was gone...

Quoted from jonny_eh

Ya, I probably won't own F-14 forever, but I'd still rather own it over IM. Playing IM feels like work, it's not fun IMHO.

So far, I think you are in the minority. Most reviews seem pretty positive. For purely selfish reasons, I hope others feel the same so I can pick one up cheap in the future -- like my HUO T3. I doubt it, though. The game rocks -- my opinion of course  

Quoted from Atomicboy

Duane, I have not played all Sterns, honestly just the ones that SB has had in the last couple months or so, and I have not had the oppertunity to really feel them out or explore everything.  My comments just come from the limited time playing, so that may change.  

Fair enough. I think it would also be fair to play a few before you slam Stern and make a global comment like saying they should be creative with their skills shots, don't all need to be lane change, etc. Just my .02.

Duane

Quoted from wbradley

Umm, you forgot Borg, Kordek, D'Angelo, Gomez, Sharpe, Oursler, Phutz, Sheats, Langlois...you still have a lot of pins to purchase!

And don't forget that "other" Ritchie........YO TAXI!!!

I don't like TAF the layout just doesn't do it for me.  I love my TZ.  Just played a game the other night (hadn't in a while since I got my other machines   ).  I like machines with med to long shots.  Big fan of T2, IM even SM.  Yes huge Ritchie fan.  I also agree T3 is a great game that is underrated One of my wife’s fav but SM might have taken that over.

It's good to have a Varity so if you feel like stop and go play TZ, TSPP FG LOTR and RFM.  If you want non stop play IM T2 SM even Taxi.  Hell I have so many I don't give them all the love they deserve.  Hell sometimes I want to shoot stuff so I play Hyperball

"Other Ritchie" referring to Mark, Steves brother. He's more of a video game guy I think. Except for Taxi.

Quoted from wbradley

"Other Ritchie" referring to Mark, Steves brother. He's more of a video game guy I think. Except for Taxi.

http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?searchtype=advanced&ppl=Mark%20Ritchie

14 games in total found, including Indiana Jones (WMS) and Pinball Magic (not listed on that project due to legal reasons).

Quoted from Hippochrome

It doesnt matter which one you buy......All Lawlor games are the same......BORING

You know the more I read hippo's posts, the more  I LOVE him


oh BTW TAF if I had to pick... SOmeday, Someday

Quoted from Sparky

Genesis kicks TZ and TAF's asses COMBINED. Lawlor and Ritchie are no match for the midget!!!

Tru Dat Homeslice!

Quoted Text

Fair enough. I think it would also be fair to play a few before you slam Stern and make a global comment like saying they should be creative with their skills shots, don't all need to be lane change, etc. Just my .02.

Many of the ones I have played, of course not all, had this feature, which is why I noted it.  It was something I noticed right away about Stern.  I still think a lane change skill shot on ANY game above 85 is a cough out for lack of trying.  i haven't got into the Stern games, no, but I think it doesn't take much to know if you like an initial skill shot, and to have an objective comment regarding that.  My 2 cents.  

Quoted from b1buwg97

You know the more I read hippo's posts, the more  I LOVE him


oh BTW TAF if I had to pick... SOmeday, Someday

I just like to stir it up a bit....without being an annoying "troll"  

AND sometimes I even believe half of what I say
"TZ and TAF ARE boring.....slot machine, piano, slot machine, piano, slot....ughhhhh kill me, please kill me"

Quoted from Hippochrome

I just like to stir it up a bit....without being an annoying "troll"  

AND sometimes I even believe half of what I say
"TZ and TAF ARE boring.....slot machine, piano, slot machine, piano, slot....ughhhhh kill me, please kill me"

I'm glad you feel that way. Now I own your TZ

Quoted from jonny_eh

I'm glad you feel that way. Now I own your TZ

And some day I'll own your SM....now that's a pinball machine!

Quoted from Hippochrome

And some day I'll own your SM....now that's a pinball machine!

Unfortunately for you, I agree that it's a pinball machine!

I have had my TZ a couple of weeks now and have played many games.  I feel it only right that I give TAF due consideration before making a judgement.  What time on Sunday should I pick up yout TAF.  I figure 2-3 weeks should be enough.  

I have owned FH, TAF, and currently TZ.

I HATED FH more then any other machine I owned... Can't explain why, just felt like a weak TAF.  (most likely hated it because I owned a TAF first)

I had TAF for about a year before I sold it.  I sold it simply because I found that the value for the machine out weighed the enjoyment of the game.  So I traded up.

I now have a TZ.  Although all three games feel similar, TZ in my opinion is superior.  it feels the most different then the other previous two, and it is far more complex.  (I was beating TAF where I have yet to beat TZ).


Not a real fan of Pat's since he truly is a one trick pony, however I have to say his one trick is a good one.  

it's TZ for me.

TZ still my favorite machine. Often unforgiving. Suck it up!

TZ keeps me coming back over and over and over.

Ditto that!

Well, interesting post.  I obviously play the TZ a lot now having just got it, and TAF every day.  I think you can control the ball more in TAF, drains happen somewhat by chance, but largely if you miss a shot, and while the ball is out of your control.  TZ seems just more random, and uncontrolled.  I don’t like that about it.  Everything is aimed to drain so perfectly well down the center, that you really have to be ready to move the machine quite a bit. I don’t mind that, and it keeps you on your feet.   When I’m having a good game, I don’t chalk this up to skill as much as I do sheer luck that the left and right drain lanes haven’t pulled my number yet.  With TAF I often lose balls due to mistakes, missed shots and letting the ball loose to bounce around and possibly drain, or very infrequently BS drains, where a drain occurs due to a bad roll.  In TZ, it’s quite the opposite in a lot of games.  Some people have said that they haven’t won the game yet... are you talking about LITZ, or is “winning” something more?  I have no problem having a good game at some point and getting LITZ at least once a day.  I just had two this morning, BUT this was right after a game that drained the first two balls after the skill/pop bumpers.   Again, TZ, in that aspect, plays seems EM “drainish”, and I don’t like that about it.

A very simple thing that I think would have changed this is a left lane kicker, that you could reactivate, as with my F14.  On the F14, the ball goes in to the left drain quite a bit too, however the left save kicker doesn’t make this feel like a common drain, if you reload it right.  This, on the TZ, would have been a nice touch,.

As bad as they are though, I have to honestly give them a Bravo for the side lane drains.  It is simply amazing how many times the ball is able to go there, considering the size.  I really wonder if this machine was made to drain as it is, in lieu of the buy in, and finding a way to eat more quarters.

So much frustration for 45 seconds of mad fun.... hahah it’s like sex !

Quoted Text

  I have no problem having a good game at some point and getting LITZ at least once a day  

You must be an extremely good player, I have only gotten there once so far and I am probably better than average. Maybe your mini-playfield is easier than mine. Is the machine on factory default settings?

I'm not good at the mini playfield yet, I only win that maybe 1 out of ten times.  I can't seem to find the trick to that (the power we're talking about here right?).  I actually haven't even gone into the settings yet since having it, just played it non-stop.  It was set back to default, when "restored" by MPAmusements.  It's on regular 3 ball mode to my knowledge, I'll have to look.  Maybe my months of non-stop TAF, as they are similar in gameplay, has helped.

I'll do whatever minigame/mode gets lit, but then I'm gunning for piano/slot, or relighting it as fast as I can, and hitting power/gumball/cameras along the way.  I nearly got LITZ twice, one or two windows away.

The power ramp thing that stops the ball, and fires it onto the play field REALLY p**ses me off.  I seriously need the magnet mod...  I'm perfectly level, and this rarely works.  I'm surprised this aspect was built as it is.

Do you mean the skillshot rocket, or the spiral ramp magnet?

I find that maybe 1 in 10 times the skillshot bounces out of the rocket catapult and drains before I get to touch the ball.

Sorry, no,  the right ramp, leading into the mini-playfield, but when the power is not activated.  The shot where it drops the ball in front of the small flipper, to hit the piano.  I don't know what that thing is called, but the metal "grabber" thing, that brings the ball from that ramp to the PF.  The balls travel along to it, then are supposed to stop in it, and get carried to the PF, but usually (on mine) hit it and roll back, and eaither get ejected ramdomly on the PF (sometimes draining GRRR) or they have to wait until the ball cames back to rest against it, and the solenoids cycle looking for the ball.  

I heard this is very common, and there is a magnet mod ($5 - not the PF magent mod in the spiral) that installs on this and is enough to hold the steel balls there to be released onto the PF properly.

I have that mod and it is essential, so they say. Not sure where it is from as it was there when I purchased it.

Quoted from Atomicboy

I'm not good at the mini playfield yet, I only win that maybe 1 out of ten times.  I can't seem to find the trick to that (the power we're talking about here right?).  I actually haven't even gone into the settings yet since having it, just played it non-stop.  It was set back to default, when "restored" by MPAmusements.  It's on regular 3 ball mode to my knowledge, I'll have to look.  Maybe my months of non-stop TAF, as they are similar in gameplay, has helped.

I'll do whatever minigame/mode gets lit, but then I'm gunning for piano/slot, or relighting it as fast as I can, and hitting power/gumball/cameras along the way.  I nearly got LITZ twice, one or two windows away.

The trick is to trigger the magnet after the ball crosses it and bounces off the  back rubber.  When I am playing good I can get it first try when the ball is released on the mini playfield.  40% range is a good percentage for me.

Quoted from Cobra99

The trick is to trigger the magnet after the ball crosses it and bounces off the  back rubber.  When I am playing good I can get it first try when the ball is released on the mini playfield.  40% range is a good percentage for me.

I second this strategy.  

Quoted from Atomicboy

Sorry, no,  the right ramp, leading into the mini-playfield, but when the power is not activated.  The shot where it drops the ball in front of the small flipper, to hit the piano.  I don't know what that thing is called, but the metal "grabber" thing, that brings the ball from that ramp to the PF.  The balls travel along to it, then are supposed to stop in it, and get carried to the PF, but usually (on mine) hit it and roll back, and eaither get ejected ramdomly on the PF (sometimes draining GRRR) or they have to wait until the ball cames back to rest against it, and the solenoids cycle looking for the ball.  

I heard this is very common, and there is a magnet mod ($5 - not the PF magent mod in the spiral) that installs on this and is enough to hold the steel balls there to be released onto the PF properly.

Here's the website.
http://www.decoratorsupply.com....._diverter_magnet.htm

Yeah, I've seen it there, I was waiting to figure out what mods I was going to buy for it, and what other stuff I want from there in total for a full ship.  Thanks though.

funny, I played much better tonight at the mini playfield, winning about 60%.  I'm getting more of a feel for it.  Had LITZ again but the balls got jammed in the gumble machine, so I dd it all with three balls grr.  That has happened a few times already, where the way they load in causes two to block the hole.  If I notice it, as its very noticable, i open it up and fix it, but i didn't today.  

Does anyone have the LED gumball board that lights it up, not the extra set of lights, but the circuit board mod?

Let your $ do the talking, both of them are for sale on Kijiji Calgary this morning. Nice looking machines to, from what I can tell.