Quoted from BZM

I have met/talked to JVegas (Jim) many times, as well as bought a machine from him, and he is a stand up guy. You even admit it yourself that he didn't actively try to deceive you, and that he was not fully at fault, but you still think you should come on here and bash the guy publicly. I don't know if you decided to do this publicly in an effort to try and force Jim to refund you some money. But when you start talking about how someone else who sold you something, and at no fault of his own, the item was damaged and decided to make it up to you out of their own pocket, it really seems like that is what you are doing by posting this.

The real person you should be mad at is the guy who charged you the $800 for fixing the machine. Man, you can buy older, fully working machines for what he charged just to fix your machine.

Sorry but you are INCORRECT here.  The reason I posted this on this forum is what my title says "NO SEE, NO BUY".  Jim said himself that he should not sell to people who have not physically seen and looked at the machine themselves.  He went as far as saying he will NEVER sell to anyone that has not seen the machine again.  I am not forcing Jim to refund me any money - that conversation is over.  And, of course, he made no money on my sale so how could I expect money back from him -  

I have been in sales for many, many years and those of you who believe that jim makes no money and does it for the fun have BEEN SOLD - hands down.  SOLD - SOLD - SOLD.  That is the oldest sales trick in the book.  Here are a few others in case you all don't see it:

I have 2 other people waiting for this sale so make up your mind quickly
I am getting out of the business soon (meaning - buy from me now or you might not get another chance)
I am taking a loss on this sale.
Just need to sell to clear room for others (closing out sale, bankrupsy sale techniques)
Make the people with the most influence happy with your service (funny how Sparky our site admin is very happy with Jim and sticks up for him BIGTIME)

Look, I am not trying to start a war here.   My original point stands that with jvegas (especially) you really should see before you buy.  His sales techniques and descriptions are questionable but not fraudulant.  

I would, however, highly recommend Superior Amusements on ebay.  NIB Simpsons will have my damaged parts here in 2 days or I have the name of the person to contact.  

Quoted from sinpin

Sorry but you are INCORRECT here.  The reason I posted this on this forum is what my title says "NO SEE, NO BUY".

Then why make it personal and attack him? Why not just make a generic post about how people should always see the item in person instead of singling him out?

Quoted from sinpin

He went as far as saying he will NEVER sell to anyone that has not seen the machine again.

Ya mainly due to people like you who make a public stink of things like this.

Quoted from sinpin

I am not forcing Jim to refund me any money - that conversation is over.  And, of course, he made no money on my sale so how could I expect money back from him -  

I have been in sales for many, many years and those of you who believe that jim makes no money and does it for the fun have BEEN SOLD - hands down.  SOLD - SOLD - SOLD.  That is the oldest sales trick in the book.

You have not been in this hobby very long and it shows. Very few people have made much, if any money at all selling machines in the last few years. You should be happy to have people like Jim who bring in machines, as no one is doing it any more in Canada except for dealers. Fell free to go to a place like Starburst in Toronto and ask them how much for a IJ in good condition. If you thought the $3600 you paid was fair market value, and expect to pay anywhere near that, expect to be amazed.

Quoted from sinpin

Make the people with the most influence happy with your service (funny how Sparky our site admin is very happy with Jim and sticks up for him BIGTIME)

If you are implying that Sparky gets some sort of kick-back, "special price", or that Jim will do anything to please him just to get favorable reviews, it really shows that you have no fucken idea what you talking about.

Quoted from sinpin

I would, however, highly recommend Superior Amusements on ebay.

Until they screw you?

Quoted from sinpin

Make the people with the most influence happy with your service (funny how Sparky our site admin is very happy with Jim and sticks up for him BIGTIME)  

There's something you don't see every day. The words 'influence' and 'Ian' used in the same sentence.
Kidding aside, I think you may have stepped over the line just a little on that one.

Adam

Sinpin ill buy that IJ off you for 1500 cash right now, and i won't evne look at it

I'm sorry you had to go through that, bud.  I'm new to the world of pins myself, and my first buy was  T-2, but i went to look at it and I didn't know how to even get into test mode (knew nothing).  The guy said it worked 100%, i got it home and the wrong coil + missing gate ni the trough were causing problems in the trough area.  My guess is the guy probalby knew it was not working right but wasn't sure if it really was a problem or not.  But i educated myself, asked questions, and learned real quick, and now i'm getting better and faster at finding the problems with my machines, to the poitn where if it's doing something i can think "ok it's this or that".  I think it is very wise, especially with pinball machines, to learn how to fix the more basic things.

I definitely agree with you that the seller should have some responsibility.  If he says it's working 100% and you get it home and a bunch of errors happen, something is fishy.  If you just have 1 switch out on the transit home, well that could have just been coincidental...but man educate yourself on the cost of parts and visit that pinrepair.com site.  It is such a great site.  Any new fellow can follow the step by step procedures to fix most problems.  The one awesome thing about pinball machines is that for the most part, they were designed to be worked on and repaired regularly.  It's nice that the schematics and wiring diagrams are all provided inthe manuals for owners of the machines to fix.

I wish you the best.  Quit buying online man!  Buy local from private owners. MY first buy, i probably overpaid by 100 bucks or so and was thankful.  After buying that machine, i started hanging around here and got brought up to speed on the value of the games and it's very educational to just read the threads that these veterans start about problems, prices, value on machines, etc.

I wish you all the best man.  

If I can add a bit of geographical interjection. Sinpin seems old school. Where your word is your bond, and you are expected to take care of people you don't know. He's a westerner, and we tend to operate more like that our here.
Jvegas, who I also don't know, has a more eastern attitude where you don't babysit anyone, and you are expected to do your own homework, and make your own decisions.

From what I see, Sinpin expects Jvegas to operate as he would, and the majority of the board says jvegas didn't force Sinpin to do anything. Neither are right or wrong, it just depends on your postal code.

As a tip to Sinpin, the USA is much closer than Quebec and Ontario, so look south and west, not east. Also, another tip to Sinpin, (this is jvegas's home board where everyone has known him for a long time). Chalk it up to experience, and don't burn any bridges with such a knowledgable and helpful group of people, (and easterners at that! )

(Now don't bash me too much, my wife is from Montreal . . .  OK maybe the wife isn't a good example  .)

Quoted from BZM

Then why make it personal and attack him? Why not just make a generic post about how people should always see the item in person instead of singling him out?




Ya mainly due to people like you who make a public stink of things like this.



You have not been in this hobby very long and it shows. Very few people have made much, if any money at all selling machines in the last few years. You should be happy to have people like Jim who bring in machines, as no one is doing it any more in Canada except for dealers. Fell free to go to a place like Starburst in Toronto and ask them how much for a IJ in good condition. If you thought the $3600 you paid was fair market value, and expect to pay anywhere near that, expect to be amazed.



If you are implying that Sparky gets some sort of kick-back, "special price", or that Jim will do anything to please him just to get favorable reviews, it really shows that you have no fucken idea what you talking about.



Until they screw you?

You are completely right.  You must drive a big truck or something - to be so keenly in tune with the world.  

I am so, so sorry for what I have done.  I mean no disrespect to this board or anyone on it.  I was only meaning that Jim is a great salesperson by my comments.  I have now changed my mind on this issue.  I have seen the light...  This was all my fault and I accept responsibility for my losses.  

Sorry to Jim as well.  I guess I really didn't know what this whole hobby was about.  Let's say that I have definately learned my lesson.  Who am I to tell any of you anything about pinball when I clearly know nothing.  

I do appreciate the assistance with the problems I was having - for that I am very grateful for this forum.

Hey he was not making much money or almost no money on allot a games sure some he did.
Not all the machines make him money and what he does make with one pay pretty much for the other 3 that don’t.
But allot of them cost money to ship and some repair that can be not cheap but not 800$ mind you he would actually sell the machine a project at one point.
but still money out of his pocket.
If you’re curious on how much he makes look at the games he buys on eBay.
You can look up the past 30 days on eBay and see what he paid for it.
Also do you think everybody paid what it is listed at?
F no there’s allot of dealing.
Personally I like Jim I have personally worked with him nice guy to nice sometimes.
he can be a little bliss on what he buys but he is a gambling man.
EBay is the next Vegas in many ways for Jim.
Also trust me pinball is not his bread and butter way from it.
He a shoes salesman not All Bundy mind you but has 3 nice store or did that change also?

Quoted from sinpin

I have been in sales for many, many years and those of you who believe that jim makes no money and does it for the fun have BEEN SOLD - hands down.  SOLD - SOLD - SOLD.  That is the oldest sales trick in the book.  Here are a few others in case you all don't see it:

Not that my opinion really makes any difference, but I think you're both nuts; Jim for buying boatloads of machines he has no intention of keeping and selling them at a loss while they're still in transit , and you for making your first two pin purchases $3500+ machines that you have never seen in person and have no idea how to maintain. I don't understand either of you.  

And Jim might be a good salesman, but if you think he's making money doing what he does, I think you're incorrect. His ebay purchases are open for all to see and after the shipping cost is added in, I suspect there are few machines he makes any money on.

- My very humble two cents.

Now, if you'll pardon me, I have to go play my very well-maintained, inexpensive and very fun games.  
  
Corey

A cooke, the man of reason.  Oddly enough this is one of those threads where there's enough half-truths floating about that everyone's half right.  

my two cents is if your not happy with your transaction keep it between you and the seller. I have had over 40 pins or more in my collection and have sold to many maaca members and have had some problems after they have picked up or shipped there pins without me knowing it had a problem.I have been working with pins many years and didn"t even know party zone had a mode were the lights turn red buy the buyer called me and i fixed the problem. As for making money on selling pins hardly ever I just want what I paid for it including a rubber kit that I always put on.
I hope this makes sense as this daylight savings time is really fu%$#ng me up. Now who wants to buy a supersonic for 600.00
Paul
P.s Pins only did you get my twister

Quoted from sinpin

Make the people with the most influence happy with your service (funny how Sparky our site admin is very happy with Jim and sticks up for him BIGTIME)

...

I have thought long and hard on how I would reply to this. People who have known me for years know well that I can take pretty much anything anyone can throw at me, but 4 things really get me mad. Insulting my integrity is one of them. I have never sold out in my life. If I did, MAACA would have been dead and buried long ago. But I will be a man and leave it up to a snowball effect that caused people to say things that they didn't mean to say. No harm done. I understand the frustration.

Now, this being written and done with, I do again agree with an inspection of a machine prior to buying, or it is up to you to take a risk. 3500$ for an IJ seems to be the going rate anyhow. Where I was stunned, as stated by many others, was your 800$ bill for repair (assuming I read correctly). 2 items of advice I can give you here:

1-  for ANY repairs, post asking for help first. Pins Only and Hardkor are also in Calgary (props to the Calgary chapter!!!) and I am sure are willing to help out in any way they can.

2- If you want to buy a machine that is not in Calgary but that is located near another member, and you want a second opinion, don't be afraid to post and ask. To be honest with you, that was the primary reason we started the group. JD, Splitskull and I used to drive around a lot and help new owners examine pins before buying. Ask Azatotht about his experiences!!!    So, don't be afraid to ask for advice or help... it's a SMALL community.

And as for the title, I just changed it to reflect the TRUE nature of what this thread should have been...  


Sparky


PS: I think we can all agree that enough has been said in this thread... now let's get all together, group hug, have a beer and play some games.

i'am always here to help.....drink beer

Calgary chapter sounds cool don't forget generalgman,pinsrfun,tester007,Aspman97



The tec that sinpin used will stand behind his work.He fixed my mm with a follow up to make sure.He also has helped me fix minor problems for no charge.A little high on price but worth every cent.no one works for free.try to get your washer machine fixed or your hot tub,its not cheap.or just fill your truck up with gas.  Well back to having a cold beer before my electricity gets cut     cheers