Quoted from Vengeance

You forgot to add the  

But I'm serious though! I really liked it. Like really, really liked it.

Quoted from 839

But I'm serious though! I really liked it. Like really, really liked it.

Stop trying to convince others it's good. Try to convince people it sucks, then buy it at a fire sale.

Me too. I think Dark Knight is an awesome looking game. The crane toy is just awesome.

Too bad about the layoffs.... could be the end for Stern or maybe they are just getting ready to ride out the economic storm in the US right now. Things may get worse.

Unfortuanately you just never know until it's too late and the company closes the door. I wish them well, I was just starting to warm up to the newer games ( Spiderman, TDK, TSPP and Family Guy are just awesome ) too.

Quoted from HP5P

Just a quick note, SB will be increasing prices soon on NIB games due to the drop in the Canadian Dollar if anyone is considering buying a new game.

Did they subsequently lower the prices when the dollar was at par?

I actually read that Stern was increasing the price, not Starburst

(For the record, I thought TSPP, FG, TDK and Spiderman were all good games!  IJ blows, though.)

Quoted from HP5P

I was at Starburst this week and they are selling NIB WoF and WPT for either $3590 or $3690(sorry can't remember which one it was). I am sure SB is not losing money, so Stern must be taking the hit.

Just a quick note, SB will be increasing prices soon on NIB games due to the drop in the Canadian Dollar if anyone is considering buying a new game.

By the same token I have heard that if you bargain hard, you can do better than that.  I was considering getting a WoF (and I like WPT a lot as well) - however, whose got da money for dat?!

Ya, I think IJ4 was just a blip in a really great run of games. SM, FG, TDK are all great games. TDK just suffered image problems due to the unfinished software. I also think it was lame that it included the worst part of LOTR, the POTD.
It's software may be somewhat complete now, but it suffers from a few oddities (like mixing animations with clips from the film). And they didn't get the original actors to do voices for the pin (like they did with TSPP, LOTR, and FG). See the 'part 2' review at pinballnews.com

Quoted from jonny_eh

I give them 1 year, then pinball's dead.

Pinball will not die if Stern decides to stop. It will die if WE stop. And I don't intend to stop anytime soon. My wife will bury me in a pinball cabinet. THEN I will stop. And if Stern bows out, I wouldn't be surprised if another player enters the game.

How can you like TDK??  That game is terrible!  The game in and of itself had such potential but they F-d it up because of the lame software.

I've played the latest revesion extensivly and the game is so pointless.

Examples:

1)  The modes are all exactly the same!  There are 4 B-A-T-M-A-N modes lit via the left hand side batman targets, hit the targets, light the mode, shoot the right loop to start.  All well and good, problem is each mode is exactly identical in shot layout, the same shots each time for each mode, the only thing that changes is the animations and name of the mode.  There is no varation at all.

2) The crane, yes the crane is kinda cool, but again pointless, there is no risk vs reward with the crane, start the crane once and even if you drain the current ball you are on the crane will remain with the same hits as it was on before.  There is no risk to starting the crane, drain it starts you back right where you left off.  What's the point, it should at least have ended the crane mode if you drained between balls to make it more of a challenge to complete, now a 2 year old chimping on the flippers can complete the mode as they have 3 balls to do it.

3) Batmobile/SeSaw again pointless, it is kinda cool the first time you see it but again nothing changes, it's the same exact thing over and over again.  Allways a hurry up to the right loop.  The point value doesn't change, the shot doesn't change, the amount of shots needed to start the hurry up doesn't change.  

4) Main playfield Caracters for Wizard mode, there is no point to collect the characters on the playfield other then to advance toward wizard mode.  There is no reward, no acknolgment, just a light on the playfield.  Yes, Joker, Scarcow, and Batman require you complete something and actually achive something.  But all of the rest are pointless.  Harvey dent, a random number of hits int he pop bumpers, once completed all you get is the light, no mode, no reward nothing.  Rachel, a random target that can not be hit directly only while in the bumpers again once achived you receive nothing other then the light.  Alfred, hit the Alfred target once! Lucias Fox, collect the gadets on the POTD, yes at 2 gadets you get a extra ball, but the other 6 give you nothing.  Again pointless items that should have added something and do nothing but add usless boring padding.

5) Wizard mode, so you spend the monotous time getting all the usless items and finnaly get ready for the wizard mode, shoot the left orbit, hit the scoop, you are awarded 100 million, lights go out and you start again.  No fan fare, no wizard mode, nothing, 100 million and off you go to complete it again....WTF!??  

The game is an excersie in tedium, how long can you play it before you get bored and never play it again.  It will never last in a home collection because there is no point to the game.  I've seen EM's that have more to do then this POS.  

But the game could be great if they just changed the software a bit.  Make the hurry up shots randomize with diffrent point values.  Mix up the batman modes so they arn't the same every time.  Create modes or atleast rewards for each character you have to collect on you way to the wizard mode.  A make a wizard mode for god sakes.  Simple things that really cost nothing other then the time of a developer to implement them  The game has all the right tools to be the next LOTR or TSPP, it just needs the software, that's what really gets my goat, the cheapest part of their production line and they are skimping on it.  I'd rather of had much depper rules and no see-saw.  It really burns my a$$ that this is the new direction of Stern.  

CSI looks promiseing, but I know I'm just building it up to get knocked down again.  

I thought IJ4 was better than TDK.  IJ4 started to grow on me a bit during the tournament.  TDK just seemed like a cheap LOTR knockoff.  Similar feel and ideas such as path of the dead, left orbit to start MB and some other things that I forget now.  Not surprising that it was the same designer (Gomez).  The see-saw is useless and you can't really see the car underneath.  I did think the wrecking ball was a nice toy though.  Of course, IJ4 does suffer from some design issues as well.

Everyone is treating these layoffs as Sterns Death Knell.  I am more optimistic.  Gary is a businessman first and foremost (well a lawyer as well).  He is cutting expenses and trying to keep the ship afloat during the rough times.  Its a shame that Keith was let go though.  I guess that would leave Lyman as the senior developer there now.

Quoted from Sparky

  And if Stern bows out, I wouldn't be surprised if another player enters the game.

You are correct that pinball will only die if we let it, but in business you cannot confuse passion and making money. I admire Gary Stern for trying, but i am sure he is not making tons of money. His recent decisions all point to a company trying to survive. Anyone else out there with lots of money and a passion for pinball to take his place?

Other side of the coin is, show me a company who is not currently laying people off in the curent economy.  My company just did 300 people whcih was a 5% drop it the work force.  MY Fiance's company just did a 5 %- 7% layoff as well.  These are leans times, somethings has got to give.  

Quoted from HP5P

Anyone else out there with lots of money and a passion for pinball to take his place?

Price guide is showing a December delivery on new MM's (maybe he knows something we don't). Does that count?

Let's put it this way though. If anyone parts a machine at this point because it's worth more in parts, they should be shot unless they are able to bring one or more machines back to life in doing so.

My sense is if Stern goes you better appreciate what you got. Just look at Sega. They poured a ton into the market and still exited. They had the passion and the money and they still backed out (sold out, turned it back to Gary, or whatever you want to call it).