I do not want to highjack Medvets FS -Medusa thread sale so I have started another. I will be the first to admit I have no love for these older pins, sorry to all those that love these pins, but they do not attract me. However I do understand and realize the amount of work that goes into restoring and clear coating a playfield, and I would not be surprised if 30-40 hours have been spent on it.

Now I see people paying $400-800 all the time for unrestored pins with wear and mechanical and electrical issues, some serious and others minor. I then see others that should not be attempting pinball repair buy these older machines and then want help to repair them. And now a nicely restored pin with CC playfield comes up for sale and it does not sell quickly. What am I missing here? Do people put no value on 30-40 hours of time spent restoring a machine? You would be hard pressed to find a vintage pin in that nice condition for that kind of money if that is what you like to collect.

Someone want to explain to me why this happens. The only thing that I can think of is people do not like to spend more than $1000 on these vintage pins.
  

Quoted from HP5P

Someone want to explain to me why this happens. The only thing that I can think of is people do not like to spend more than $1000 on these vintage pins.
  

Its the Wal-mart principal.  High volume, low cost, questionable quality and durability.

People aren't paying for the work, they're paying for a pinball machine. Either the machine is worth it to them at that price, or not. I assume there's more of a market for cheap and beat up games that can be restored to 'playable' status for less than a couple hundred bucks, than there is for higher priced gorgeous collectible pieces of art. There's a market for the latter, but it's smaller, and therefore likely takes longer for the seller to find a buyer.

This is the reason why I'd be apprehensive about putting anymore money than I have into my SMDM, since if I wanted to sell it, I woudn't want to have to wait for a buyer that can pay the cost of the refurb. Lesson I've learned assumed to be right, don't put tons of time and money into a pin restore unless it's for yourself, a specific buyer (pre-arranged), or you are willing to wait for the right buyer.

Edit: Wow, just read what I wrote. I'm a newb trying to sound all wise and stuff. I changed it to better reflect that.

  some of us don't just don't care if a machine is in perfect condition.  just as long as it plays perfect.  
   to me it comes down to dollars.   med vets listing had me talking to my wife.  but with other pins only costing $500-800 and being titles i really really want.  its hard to say yes to a machine i really want when i can buy two to three of the others that work but don't look as nice.   mr.hides at $800 has me really thinking about getting one.  
   now as for others who do a full cc and all repairs on a machine.  most do so cause they like it and its not about the money.  but about the machine being up to their par and spending time doing something they like or love.  i can relate.  so they don't want to pay the money and have nothing to do.  
   there is just a few of us who will pay top dollar for a machine that is all redone.  its usally worth it in the long run for something that looks great.  but again.  when it almost doubles the price from other listings, it easy to see why they tend to stick around alittle longer.  they usally end up selling though.

Quoted from Monkeybug

Its the Wal-mart principal.  High volume, low cost, questionable quality and durability.

what he said.

Couldn't agree more.

most people don't care , they would rather buy 4 cheap pins for the price of 1 restored head to toe pin

IMHO it's three things... 1. the economy (fewer sales for sure)

2. the buyer and the right market.  In the right market, the right kind of buyer will shell out for a fully restored machine, particularly with some warranty backing - and particularly if they are looking for something minty and few hassles. and

3. old machines don't warrant it... don't disvalue the value of time's wear and tear.  In proper restorations, we do not restore old antiques to a minty new finish, we give them back functionality (sometimes) and clean them up and protect them from further deterioration, but their patina (and sometimes their paint loss and the carvings) are indications of the "human value" of the machine - reminders of an era and set of avid players from a time past.  SO in some cases, a full minty restoration and a "thick" new clearcoat devalues the older pin in many collectors eyes.

Also, unless the restorer has a reputation, one mans "fully restored" is actually a "fully botched attempt at restoration by an amateur".

also.  i enjoy somewhat the play and the feel of a more used game.  

Enzo

I think alot of times it's the availability and market. When I posted this machine on RGP for the same price but in USD by mistake (forgot to convert or say CDN dollars) I had 3 immediate offers to purchase based on condition and the collector wanting a very nice Medusa. The problem was distance and shipping. If I lived in midwest USA or Eastern states, it would be gone twice over for a 5 hour drive  . The person who "bought it" had a medical emerg and is now selling 2 of his machines to pay his bills so that's how life happens.

I am patient so will wait for the right buyer who wants a beautiful Medusa and appreciates this generation of game.

I personally appreciate sys 11 and have no issue installing NOS clearcoated playfields and parts in my favourite generation of pinballs to have both beautiful collector quality and great playing games. To each his own. There will always be people who must own only Chris Hutchins games and others who will never pay more than $500 for a pinball. Both are right choices for that specific collector. That's what makes the hobby fun. We all come from different perspectives.

My 0.02 worth
ME

Quoted from gorydeath

also.  i enjoy somewhat the play and the feel of a more used game.  

Funny you say that Gory. I can't wait to play a Black Knight with the new CPR clearcoated playfields installed (hint, hint Mr Hide   ) as an original Black Knight seems so slow and sluggish. I currently have a 4 MBC from a friend that I borrowed and when it came, it was slow and very frustrating and boring to get that ball moving despite being very clean. 3 coats of wax later and that ball zooms around and the owner even couldn't believe the difference both in speed and fun of playing. My Fireball has been restored and clearcoated and the speed for me is what makes it fun. I actually play these two EM's as much as my DMD's if not more now

As I said before, different strokes for different folks  

ME

Quoted from medvet

I actually play these two EM's as much as my DMD's if not more now

Nice to see you're enjoying them !!  told ya they are fun!



oh ... and to explain to Hp5p : PEOPLE ARE CHEAP!!  

all they want is "a game" and they don't care the clear if it's 500$ more.

I do ... game is on hold !

Quoted from HP5P

The only thing that I can think of is people do not like to spend more than $1000 on these vintage pins.
  

I wish I could afford to spend over $1000 on a pin but sometimes things get in the way like mortgages, bills, house crap, kids, and unsympathetic wives. Also, I'm a pin newb so I have to take baby steps. I see pinball machines as a fun, multidisciplinary hobby to help fill in some of the fun-time space in my basement and cheaper pins that need work force me to learn about maintenance and appreciate their inner workings and history. I can't afford to have someone come over and change the light bulbs nor do I want to. Like many here, my interest is breathing life back into these neglected machines and hopefully even make them better.

... but a NIB Spiderman would be darn sweet, though! Or NIB 24! Or HUO LOTR! Or Medvet's Medusa! But it ain't gonna happen for me right now. "Patience, Grasshopper."

I agree with Medvet.  Different collectors have different ideas of what they are willing to pay and what condition they are willing to accept. I like to own games that are near mint and just enjoy them, though I am wanting to get into restoring.  I own a Black Knight and the play is different when compared to newer games.  Will I sell it?  Yeah probably.  (form line here.....   )  Now ask me if I will sell Cirqus Voltaire or Twilight Zone and I will immediately say No.  I have played Medvet's pins and if this was a title that interested me, I would be all over it.  I know the love and sweat that ME puts into her pins and I would not hesitate the buy a pin from her.  But that said, the buyer has to want the game and have the cash available or at least a trade that the seller is interested in (assuming they will accept a trade).  I found too that a number of games at Allentown did not sell.  Is this because of the market, the title, the cost, or just because that games gets no love.  Could be one or all of the above.  I just don't think that there is an easy answer to this question.