http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7716

At this point, if you have to purchase a HD-DVD player or Blue-ray player, you should have no doubt as to what that should be.

Enjoy the technology if you are one of the lucky ones to invest in such media already.

Are you sure about that?

http://news.digitaltrends.com/talkback184.html

Since this article came out, it's been announced that the above leak may not have been entirely true, but the reality is that Wal-Mart will be looking to purchase *millions* of cheap HD-DVD players by the 4th quarter for distribution by Christmas. With the significant price advantage over blu-ray players, I can't imagine that people will be flocking to blu-ray. And Wal-Mart is a little bit more of a heavy in the electronics department than Blockbuster is.

I'd say this could be a nasty decision for Blockbuster. Wait and see.

Quoted from cooke

...With the significant price advantage over blu-ray players, I can't imagine that people will be flocking to blu-ray...

Flashback to 25 years ago... Betamax was the superior product... VHS was the cheapest... remember who won?

And let's not forget a VERY important factor folks... HD-DVD players can play regular DVDs... BluRay can't. No contest. People have been buying DVDs by the ton in the last 2 years, and I doubt they will let them die.

and this is why I am holding off buying any HD format at the moment.  Rather save my money for Pinball  

Some of the deciding factors are but not limited to are:

Large Chains (walmart, target)
Adult Video Companies
Rental Companies
Supporting movie studios/companies (universal/microsoft)

Those sub 200 dollar hd-dvd players will play a major role. Also some HD-DVD's also feature backwards compatbility with standard def dvd.

Sony. Booooo!    

Blockbuster. Booooo!    

Guys, you can always keep on saying 'wait and see' but if you do, you will never enjoy the new technology.

Sparky, I don't disagree with you about that old comparison but it does not necessarily mean that 25 years later, price will still dominate the winning format.  It could very well be that the cheapest won't dominate.  DVDs won't die for many years to come either.

I don't actually believe that HD-DVD will die (even if my topic suggest it) but that it will not lead.  Current Blue-ray sales for 2007 have surpassed those of HD-DVD.  PS3 sales are getting better and Blue-ray will exist just because of the 20-30 million units of PS3 that will sell in the next couple of years.

And I know a heck load of people that shop every single week of their lives at Wal-mart and most are not even looking at electronics department very often at all.  Blockbuster has like 2000 fewer stores than Wal-mart but movie rentals are bigger than movie sales in most cases (most people that we know rent more movies per year than they purchase on DVD, or other newer formats).

there's no need for such an inflammatory title, elio.

i own and enjoy both formats (Toshiba HD-A1 player and Sony PS3). The picture and audio quality is pretty much a wash between the two formats, although HD-DVD has gotten some nods in terms of audio. on the other hand i give a preference for blu-ray because the player and disks have been more reliable (I've had many skipping/stuttering problems with my first-gen HD-DVD player -- sucks and is especially embarrassing when you're demoing brand new HD technology to guests).

when people ask me which format to go for, i never have an answer.

it comes down to - do you like movies? if you like movies, then you need both formats. universal and weinstein are exclusive to HD-DVD, while Fox and Disney are exclusive to Blu-ray. if you want movies in high def, you will need both formats, and I assure you that none of these studios are planning on switching sides anytime soon. generally speaking, blu-ray studios are strong is current, modern blockbusters while hd-dvd studios are much stronger when it comes to old, essential hollywood classics.

the sad truth is that both formats are selling poorly. the ps3 has pretty much been a disaster, and blu-ray attach rates to the lackluster ~2 million systems sold are pathetic. HD-DVD on the other hand is selling as well as can be expected for a format that is crippled by a lack of support from Disney and Fox. This especially hurts since some of the most popular blockbusters are from these 2 studios (POTC, Spider-Man, X-men).

any "hd format war" people talk about is a figment of journalists' and fanboys' imaginations. neither of these formats have breached the mainstream yet, and the "wait and see" approach of studios when it comes to making big HD releases is not helping (where oh where is our HD LOTR?.

these formats will remain irrelevant until almost everyone has an HDTV. 5 more years i say.

Mani, as someone who has had the time, passion and cash to purchase such new technology, I admire and respect your comments/observations above.

I am just having fun starting a thread that I know will have nice comments in it!

indeed. you knew full well this thread would get me fired up!

always appreciate home theater discussion. come by anytime and i'll demo some of my latest stuff.

Whichever format wins, I just hope they continue to make widescreen, cause I can't
live without those two thick black lines on the top and bottom of my movies....

maybe they'll come with a TALL screen too! with thick black lines on the left and right! man, that would be a breakthrough

Craig

Quoted from Teamatomics

Whichever format wins, I just hope they continue to make widescreen, cause I can't
live without those two thick black lines on the top and bottom of my movies....
Craig

A poor mans solution would be to take some black construction paper and tape it along the top and bottom of your screen to create the 'Letter Box' effect  

I wouldn't say goodbye to either format yet.

It would be safe to say that by chosing either format, the people involved with video sales/rentals would be able to cut the amount of stock sitting on their shelves in half.
Sony in a smart move, sells their blu-ray player (PS3) for less then it costs to produce... this way they hope that the software, in the form of movies and games, will drive up market share and profits. Now it appears that Toshiba, not wanting to be left behind, has inked out a deal with WALMART.

Let me digress by saying that In the end, the consumer winds up with a digital video format that relies on compression to get all that video to fit on a tiny disc and I can't help but wonder if the picture is as good as people think... Anyone can see what compression does to a HD signal just by switching on your cable or satelite provider. They are gambling that by reducing their bandwidth with compression, they can 'squeeze' more services down the same pipeline. In this case more services equals more revenue so bandwidth is money to them. Television stations are investing in compression based systems, VCRs and servers as well because they're cheaper. So I think many of us are trying to get better picture with the HD-DVD because the CRTC is allowing this to happen.

In the end it will be the marketing forces, not the consumer, who determines which format will come out on top. Just like in the 80's when they decided that VHS would beat out Betamax - what many people argue was the technically superior format.

Without even touching the 1080i or 1080p question, I ask will the studios provide the distributors with clean transfers or will they use the MPEG servers that business has grown to love. The posting might have been "Good BUY HD-DVD".  So in the end I have to ask, will the DVD save us from the compression blues?

Keep well and cheers to all
mfl

There as different winner every week. mayby both format may survive. I own a PS3 and I have watch few Blu-ray movie, I was very impressed.

Quoted from Sparky

And let's not forget a VERY important factor folks... HD-DVD players can play regular DVDs... BluRay can't. No contest. People have been buying DVDs by the ton in the last 2 years, and I doubt they will let them die.

Just a BTW, where did you get that fact Sparky?  My cousin has a PS3 with BlueRay and it plays regular DVD movies....

I think I know where the confusion is coming from.

HD-DVD group is able to produce disks that have DVD on one side and HD-DVD on the other.

There is also the theoretical possibility of having both DVD and HD-DVD on the same side, on different data layers. No one has mass produced such a disk yet.

It could also be that the sub-$350 Toshiba HD-DVD players perform better DVD upscaling and audio processing than high-end DVD players worth well over $1000.

Quoted from Sparky

Flashback to 25 years ago... Betamax was the superior product... VHS was the cheapest... remember who won?

  what beta is dead?  i still play mine all the time.  have some great classics and do tape some newer stuff.  
  
  but yes, back then it was the cheaper machine that won.  not the better machine.  like said by others, if one unit plays normal dvd's then i think that one has the advantage.   i too am holding off buying any system for a bit.

Quoted from Meat Popsicle

A poor mans solution would be to take some black construction paper and tape it along the top and bottom of your screen to create the 'Letter Box' effect  

Good idea MP! or...the coin op collector solution: screwing a Defender Bezel to the TV!  

In the end, I predict both technologies will lose out to circa 1981 3D glasses, which will re-emerge as "Blue-Red" technology and sweep the market, I mean hey, I don't
just want to "watch" a hockey game, I want it to feel like they're spitting and sweating right in my living room!!

Not to mention, the glasses can decode some of the most intricate cereal box puzzles in breakfast history, and make the Canadian Flag look purple....let's see
a DVD player do THAT!!

Craig

Fast forward 6 months later.  More news on this front:

Warner Bros. to Become Blu-ray Exclusive
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=10233

I borrowed my cousin's PS3 lately and compared DVD (upsampled to 1080p) and Blu-ray of the same movie (on the same Plasma TV) and could tell you that difference is quite nice indeed!

Mind you, it is hard to justify re-buying your entire DVD collection in Blu-ray (or HD-DVD if you still want to go for that or have no choice as current remaining 2 studios that are HD-DVD only won't release on Blu-ray yet).

Has anybody else embarked on this HD front and who's eyes are now so spoiled that you cannot look at regular SD channels or crappy 27" tube TVs (or crappy cheapy LCD or 1st few gen plasma TVs)?

When comparing hidef blu-ray or HD-DVD to standard def dvd, there are many still who don't see a huge difference.  The issue of course is outside of it being HD and the quality, the size of their screen comes into play much indeed.  On my 53" P&S which had a true anamorphic 16-9 mode (which gave it a realistic 46" screen size) I saw a difference.  With my new 60" 1080p Sony SXRD, I see a HUGE difference and 80s.fan, I can say it's very difficult to go back to DVD on this set.  Nothing wrong with the set, it's excellent, but when you're blowing up a 480p pic, even through upconversion to 1080p, it loses some of it's charm.

So all I can say is:  Let's go Universal and Paramount: switch sides so we can get on with the new format with no confusion.

I think the PC market will have big impact on this issue...

As PCs and Laptops start to come out with High-Def drives  (it's starting already...),
we'll start to see a trend...

Dell and HP favor Blue Ray while Toshiba has decided to use HD-DVD.
(...oh, and let's not forget the 400lb Gorilla  [Microsoft] which enables all these PC's,
which is squarly on the HD-DVD side ) .

At this rate, it could take years to declare a winner...


Steph

Well I`m also voting big time for blu-ray to win as I am a huge movie fan and other than football and hockey I couldn`t care less about owning a TV.With technology changing so fast these days it makes me wonder if spending huge money on any of these two formats might be just a waste of time?
Having said that I should add this,my basement is finally wired and insulated and awaiting drywall.I have pre-wired the larger room for a "projector "for a theatre set up.My plan was to have a 1080P projector installed.This all seems like a little bit more work initially but I think the awww factor might be worth it.Any input on projectors  from other members,I have budgeted for a top of the line 1080P projector so I`m thinking it should be quite nice picture quality wise but any info from people in the know on this would be nice.

Blu-Ray = Sony = Boo!  
(as I struggle to get a M2 memory stick working on a Sony phone)

Quoted from STEEL

Well I`m also voting big time for blu-ray to win as I am a huge movie fan and other than football and hockey I couldn`t care less about owning a TV.With technology changing so fast these days it makes me wonder if spending huge money on any of these two formats might be just a waste of time?
Having said that I should add this,my basement is finally wired and insulated and awaiting drywall.I have pre-wired the larger room for a "projector "for a theatre set up.My plan was to have a 1080P projector installed.This all seems like a little bit more work initially but I think the awww factor might be worth it.Any input on projectors  from other members,I have budgeted for a top of the line 1080P projector so I`m thinking it should be quite nice picture quality wise but any info from people in the know on this would be nice.

In general for great information on Projectors that should be non-biased go to

http://www.projectorcentral.com/

If I upgrade my projector, I would go for this one.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_ae2000_home_theater_projector.htm  

or last years model the

http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_ae1000.htm

Of course you can spend more and get more, but...

If you want a CRT Projector, send me a note, I still have a couple, but they are Brutes at around a couple hundred pounds. Cheap though...

Dave

Hmmmmm, Or maybe this one

http://www.projectorcentral.com/sanyo_z2000_home_theater_projector.htm

That site (  http://www.projectorcentral.com )will drive you crazy with reviews etc. A very valuable resource to anyone looking to get a projector. The downfall being the ability to control ambient light.

Dave

Before I bought my SXRD, I was considering getting the Panasonic LCD 1080p projector, it IS a beauty and the price is right (around $2700).  Then I was educated on bulb life and that was that. Panasonic are NOT releasing bulb life on any of their tech sheets on this projector but others who use a similar bulb have identified 1500-2000 hours.  I use the TV in my basement as casual viewing and I would do the same with this projector, so I figure it's on about 4-5 hours a day (depending if there's a hockey game on and if I'm watching a movie).  So basically, with that particular projector, I'd probably have to change the $400 bulb EVERY year.

If someone has another flat screen tv that they can watch and then for movies only or special viewings prop the projector screen down, than the projector is a good idea.  But if you want to use it as a primary source and will be using it on a daily basis I don't recommend it unless you have deep pockets.

Note: the sxrd has a bulb life of 8000 hours...

I hear that the JVC projectors are also great along with the Panasonics.

So bottom line on SXRD is to change lamp every 4 years in your case.  Not bad I guess.  It is a fine rear projection LCD.
Nothing lasts forever I guess.  
It is just that once, Tube TVs used to be viewed 3 hours a day for 10-12 years before showing CAP issues (motion/waves, scrunching, etc.).

Enjoy your HDTVs!

I built my Theatre with the intent of watching TV as well, But we decided to leave it for Movies only, or TV series on DVD. It makes it more of a going to the movies experience. So, 2000 - 4000 Hour bulb life really isn't an issue for us.

Dave

Holy crap Dave, that is SWEET!!!!

I hope those "trouble-makers" in the back row don't disturb you during the show !



Seriously,  that's a pretty "busy" room...
Doesn't all that "stuff" detract from the screen ?

Then again, who cares when you've got your own 96" screen !

Cheers,
Steph

Quoted from The Loafer

Holy crap Dave, that is SWEET!!!!

  Thanks!!

Dave

Room is "Busy, But when the lights go down, nothing is in the way of the screen from any seat. Oh, and the people in the back row are always quiet during the show!

Dave

Oh, and you have to have a Concession!!  

Breaking news ...

http://arstechnica.com/news.ar.....-hd-dvd-support.html

This could spell the beginning of the end for HD-DVD...


Steph

I can remember BATAMAX was going to be it.

Time will tell .. its not like Microsoft is going to change the X-Box architecture anytime soon.  Nor will manufactures close up shop in the near future.  I think even if there is a clear winner the two formats will be around for some time to come.  At least till next holiday season.

Quoted from Meat Popsicle

Time will tell .. its not like Microsoft is going to change the X-Box architecture anytime soon.  Nor will manufactures close up shop in the near future.  I think even if there is a clear winner the two formats will be around for some time to come.  At least till next holiday season.

Yes, I guess that 'till next holiday season' is a while for the tech industry.  It is obvious, 2-3 remaining studios that currently back HD-DVD exclusively, will move to Blu-ray within the next 6 months (if not exclusively, at least they will start releasing in Blu-ray at the same time or else their HiDef sales will suffer).  Xbox360 HD-DVD add-ons have not sold that much and it is not considered a factor in the HD-DVD push at all (but it was some Toshiba and other $99-$199 units like those selling at Wal-mart that helped HD-DVD gain some ground initially).  But PS3 is pretty much all that is pushing Blu-ray forward and it is pretty impressive since you can keep your Blu-ray player updated with PS3 firmware updates quite often/easily.

BTW, if anybody is interested in the studios, some good info is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_film_studio#Today.27s_Big_Six

HD-DVD support
Paramount
Universal Studios

Blu-ray support               
Warner Bros.
Disney (Buena Vista)
Fox
Lionsgate
MGM
Sony Pictures

Pics of my home theatre:

#2 Pic:

I personally have have not seen a LCD projector I like. So went I built this room, which is 12' x30', I purchased a Sony G70 CRT projector (only because the G90 was just to expensive) along with a Faroujda NR scaler and it gives me a great picture. I bought 11 theatre seat, which I mounted on a stepped platform, and then I added a comfy sofa to watch my 106" widescreen picture. HDTV never looked better, but upto now I have resisted buying a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. We will see who wins the battle, one will prevail just like the VHS and Beta battle.  

Nice room - sure it makes people feel comfortable, too!   How hard was it to find a coke machine like that?   Nice and compact!   Cool!

Quoted from Tuborg

Nice room - sure it makes people feel comfortable, too!   How hard was it to find a coke machine like that?   Nice and compact!   Cool!

Hey Tuborg, I assume you are asking me about the Coke Machine (since I didn't see a Coke machine in Enzo's Pics). My Wife and I own a Vending machine business as well as everything else we do, so Pop Machines are kind of second nature. I like that one (CT 4 because of its size and the fact that you can run assorted columns since the can itself becomes the Flavor card when it is next up to be purchased. It has 3 columns with 18 cans in each. Most of these machines you see are dark brown with a changeable magnetic picture that you can attach to the machine for "Decor". I have only seen a few that were painted up "Coke" which makes them look better for a home use machine. The 2 problems with these machines is The small amount they hold and they lack the vintage "Charm" of an older machine.

Here is a Pic of the other one I have in the Kitchen of the house, it holds 4 flavors and 35 cans in each. These machines are approximately 2' X 2' X 4.5'. Pretty much a perfect size for the home or shop. I have sold lots of these over the years for homes and shops and have had people paint them as they see fit, one Guy painted it all up in "Oilers" Colors!! I almost made him give it back!    People also change the marquees if they paint them to Joes Bar, or "Tuborg's Place!" or whatever they please.

Dave

Well I have been fortunate enough to get the full HP5P and pins_only personal tour.

Both are worth the nickel.

Nice stuff guys.

Quoted from STEEL

Well I`m also voting big time for blu-ray to win as I am a huge movie fan and other than football and hockey I couldn`t care less about owning a TV.With technology changing so fast these days it makes me wonder if spending huge money on any of these two formats might be just a waste of time?

Am I alone?....Although I support the arts and don't mind spending cash on the entertainment industry, both formats will receive little more than a raised middle finger from me, so the race has already been won.

Like many people, I've purchased my collection twice over, and now, well...it's over! ....As much
as Future Shop and Best Buy would LOVE  to see us walk through the aisles like cattle and fork out $60 like fish for crappy hi-res versions of Ishtar and Get Shorty, I'm happy to bow out gracefully....

Even if Sony and Microsoft offer to replace ALL my DVD's with HD or BR for free, and offer me a free player,
and a free Sony Promotional Assistant to change the discs and turn up the volume for me, the answer is still
an emphatic "no".

And yes, EVEN if they re-package ALL the Star Wars Movies, Twilight Zones, and include their old and tired "never-ever-ever-ever-before seen"  footage, Rod serlings skeletal remains, and one of George Lucas's OWN plaid shirts? ....you guessed it...the answer is "no"

I'm 33 years old, and by the time I drive around and collect these discs in a new format, I'll be old enough
to wet my pants and call my wife George, never mind sitting there and counting pixels, so thanks anyway Sony and Microsoft, and good luck with your crappy formats and sketchy players

Craig

I used to own a bunch of VHS movies, upgraded to laserdisc on a lot of them, then upgraded to DVD (and added to the collection and am now upgrading to hi-def on the action/sci-fi flicks at least.

It's not that I'm being a sucker, it's that I enjoy the upgrade in quality.  I've never been known to "sit on the fence" watching quality go by, it's a problem I have , but I do realise that more than likely, in another 10 years time, maybe a few years more, maybe a few years less, I'll go through the same thing again.

In my eyes, laserdisc was a huge jump over VHS on my 26" Sony XBR
Through my peepers, an anamorphic DVD looked leagues beyond my laserdisc version through my 53" P&S (with a true widescreen anamorphic mode) rear projection
Via my retinas, the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray disc blows away the anamorphic DVD, on my current 60" SXRD

See the connection?  It's not just my source player, it's the display that also entices me.  If I stuck with a 26" CRT, I probably wouldn't give a crap, but that's not been the case sooo....  If I ever upgrade to a 4000 resolution future 100" projector and there is a source technology that lets me take advantage of it and, most importantly, I can SEE the huge improvement difference, then I will be there with bank loan in hand...

I love movies and worse, I love OWNING movies.  I'm a collector and the relevant cheapness of the hobby ($20 per movie on average) makes it feasible to gather a collection over time.  A lot of people feel the future will be in downloadable on-demand movies.  The studio would love that, it may make piracy very difficult (but hardly impossible but that's the studio thinking for you).  The on-demand solution will be a good fit for the renter out there and will be very cool for those who are tired of re-buying movies they've already owned, but many people got hooked on the DVD collecting and with these type of people, if you don't have it in your little hands, it won't be the same and they will either lose clients, or they will ensure there will still be a disc based medium that will allow the movie collector to be happy.

And for the record, if Sony provides one of their cute assistants, I won't say "no".

Quoted from The Loafer

in another 10 years time, maybe a few years more, maybe a few years less, I'll go through the same thing again.  ...

A lot of people feel the future will be in downloadable on-demand movies.  The studio would love that.

This is the direction that both the movie and music industry wants to head toward.  You will never own the media, just the rights to access the media for a period of time.

I say period of time because a company does not want you to purchase just one time.  Defunct media is future revenue for them and electronically distributed media via models using DRM mechanisms lends itself to subscription plans, expiry dates and premium prices for premium content.

Which results in the company making fat profits for the least amount of work possible, artist probably not getting paid what they should, and the consumer getting it up the zinger.

As for hard copy media .. it should be around for some time to come (say 10-15 years) but at one point you would use something akin to an IPOD like device where you would store everything ... and once that gets lost .. well guess what