I`m Scottish so I have a reason to face palm.

Is it just me but......

Pinball's not a sport, or a skill.....it's just an idle, and expensive toy. Its like calling Labyrinth a sport. Soccer and Hockey are sports that take athletic skill (running/skating, teamwork, practice, conditioning). Not a pin-gulp, slippers, and some Windex)

I also don't have a problem with people supporting the country they have a heritage tie to...even if its like 4 generations removed. Keep waving those flags Soccer loving people!

So there! Now I'm gonna play some WCS94 while watching the World Cup....where's my slippers, and England beer mug?

Quoted from Hippochrome

Its like calling Labyrinth a sport

Quoted Text

Not a pin-gulp, slippers, and some Windex  

I suggest Lysol or Scope, the taste is better*






*This post is not intended to offend those of Native or Aboriginal ancestry and the poster apologizes for any association or perceived inuendo however unintended.

Quoted from Hippochrome

Pinball's not a sport, or a skill.....it's just an idle, and expensive toy. Its like calling Labyrinth a sport.

I've got to argue that point.  I'm sure there are some Labyrinth players who are very good at it and would also consider it a skill.

But how is pinball playing not a skill?  There is a very obvious skill difference between the casual and competitive player.  So if you don't consider it a skill that how to you explain why some people are better are pinball then others?  

There is skill involved in order to play well, hand eye coordination, fast reflexes, the ability to remember complex rule sheets.  If there was no skill involved then it wouldn't matter if you were chimping away  on both flippers or aiming every shot as the result should be the same.  But because there is skill, the player that does chimp away on the buttons will not score as well as the player who actually has the skill to play the game.  

Really all you need to do is watch the Pinball 101 Dvd and then try and tell me there is no skill in pinball.  

Quoted from Vengeance

I've got to argue that point....

Meh...sure people can can good at pinball, but a skill???? Dont think so. Like saying someone is skilled at Call of Duty, or GTA. They are just toys to pass the time and have a few laughs.

A skill is a unique talent/aptitude that someone has (Wayne Gretzky was skilled at hockey, Bill Gates was skilled at figuring out computer stuff....only they could ever reach the level they got to in their field.

Pinball? Don't think so...
Anyone, if they practice enough, can be a great pinball player...even Joey Chimpallot has the potential. Joey however, will never make the NHL or design a successful computer company, no matter how hard he tries. Well, maybe in EA Sports NHL2010...he's quite skilled in that

So your argument is that a skill can't be learned then?  Checking the definition, I get "the  ability,  coming  from  one's  knowledge,  practice,  aptitude,  etc.,  to  do  something  well" or "A skill is the learned capacity to carry out pre-determined results often with the minimum outlay of time, energy, or both.".  I'd say that talent is inate (and not learned), and since talent can influence the development of a skill there are definitely examples of different learning curves for acquiring said skills.  Most people also reach a point where it becomes difficult or impossible for them to develop a skill beyond a certain point for various reasons.  Those examples you mentioned just had shorter learning curves, and higher plateaus.  

Pinball is definitely a game of skill though-isn't there legal precedent for it   Nobody is arguing that playing Pinball is a very useful skill in the grand scheme of things, but it's still a skill that is admired by a small group.

Quoted from Hippochrome

I also don't have a problem with people supporting the country they have a heritage tie to...even if its like 4 generations removed. Keep waving those flags Soccer loving people!

While I disagree with you on the skill thing -- I think pinball is a game of skill -- I totally agree with the above. Let's be honest, when we cheer for the Sens/Habs/Toronto, etc. who are we really cheering for? A bunch of hired guns with very few (if any) of the players actually being from the city. So where's the harm in cheering your country of heritage during the World Cup? None, provided you don't riot when they win  

Duane

Yes good pinball playing requires skill.  However, it is not recognized as a sport any more than darts is.

A sport is a lot more physical. Aside from sumo wrestling, I dont know of any other sports where the successful players can be out of shape. The overall physical requirements are too great.

So, do you have to be in shape physically to be a good pinball player? I think not.

Quoted from wbradley

A sport is a lot more physical. Aside from sumo wrestling, I dont know of any other sports where the successful players can be out of shape. The overall physical requirements are too great.

Golf.

So who the hell are you supposed to cheer if your "heritage" is an amalgam of 3 or more european countries? All of them? What if two of those countries are playing against each other?  

Quoted from Hippochrome

Meh...sure people can can good at pinball, but a skill???? Dont think so. Like saying someone is skilled at Call of Duty, or GTA. They are just toys to pass the time and have a few laughs.

A skill is a unique talent/aptitude that someone has (Wayne Gretzky was skilled at hockey, Bill Gates was skilled at figuring out computer stuff....only they could ever reach the level they got to in their field.

Pinball? Don't think so...
Anyone, if they practice enough, can be a great pinball player...even Joey Chimpallot has the potential. Joey however, will never make the NHL or design a successful computer company, no matter how hard he tries. Well, maybe in EA Sports NHL2010...he's quite skilled in that

You're confusing 'skill' with 'talent'. You're born with talent, you develop skill.

And I disagree in another sense too. Not anyone can be good at pinball. Some people just don't have the coordination.
Conversely, there was a guy at the Toronto Gameroom Show that made it to the Division B semi-finals, and it was the first weekend he ever played pinball. He must've had some natural talent, but he got knocked out of the semis because the other players had more skill.

And a learned ability doesn't have to be 'useful' to be a skill. I would argue that being good at Halo is a skill. Or Starcraft even. In South Korea they televise Starcraft matches, have betting scandals, leagues, etc. When someone is better at something than someone else, it's due to a combination of more talent or more skill.