would you trade your addams family for a family guy??
Paul

Nope

I don't like Family Guy, I don't like the flow, I don't like the mini-pinball, and I don't find it a fun machine to play.

Also from a price standpoint depending on condition a TAF would be worth more then a FGY.  

If I had to choose between TAF and FGY I'd pick TAF.  

TAF has better theme intergration into the game, some very unique features that work very well and a presentation that has held the test of time.  Listening to Gomez shout "SHOWTIME" still sends chills up my spine.  The only downfall of TAF I foudn was that it became a little repetitive after a while.  

That being said I still enjoy TAF as a game much more then I enjoy FGY.  

saw that too, eh..  I dunno.. Family Guy is a fun pin, but I'd imagine it'll go down in value before it goes up.  TAF is still holding its value strong, on the other hand!

Yes. Personally I really, really like Shrek. Essentially Shrek and FG are the same game, so based on play I would do that in a heart beat. That said you might be further ahead selling TAF and buying a HUO FG. I think TAF is worth more assuming in nice shape.

Personally I find the gameplay of TAF to be a big let down. In it's time, the game was fantastic, but I just don't find it has stood the test of time when you consider the "fun" value of money.TAF is a great $1,800 game that sells for $3,500 +. That's my opinion.

I've been playing alot of Shrek lately and the game has really grown on me. It has some really fun modes. The flow is fantastic with very unique layout. The playfield has it all: captive ball, drop targets, a mini playfield that is a mini pinball, stationary targets, ramp, etc. Just a really well thought out game.

For a nice review of the game check out You Tube. A guy did a review of the game and it is fantastic.

Duane

Quoted from TwilightZone

Yes. Personally I really, really like Shrek. Essentially Shrek and FG are the same game, so based on play I would do that in a heart beat. That said you might be further ahead selling TAF and buying a HUO FG. I think TAF is worth more assuming in nice shape.

Personally I find the gameplay of TAF to be a big let down. In it's time, the game was fantastic, but I just don't find it has stood the test of time when you consider the "fun" value of money.TAF is a great $1,800 game that sells for $3,500 +. That's my opinion.

I've been playing alot of Shrek lately and the game has really grown on me. It has some really fun modes. The flow is fantastic with very unique layout. The playfield has it all: captive ball, drop targets, a mini playfield that is a mini pinball, stationary targets, ramp, etc. Just a really well thought out game.

For a nice review of the game check out You Tube. A guy did a review of the game and it is fantastic.

Duane

That review got me into pinball. Here it is: VIDEO

We also discussed TAF vs FG a few weeks back, just before I bought my TAF.

Quoted from TwilightZone

For a nice review of the game check out You Tube. A guy did a review of the game and it is fantastic.

I've seen that review, it was awesome.  He did a good one on Big Bang Bar as well.

That being said, I'll jump in the "would not" trade Addams for a Family Guy boat.  

If you're bored of your TAF, why not give FG a try? It probably won't lose too much value over the next couple years relative to TAF. It seems like pinball fans are into it, in similar league with Spider-man.

I'd like to own one someday.

If you're not bored of TAF, why even consider getting rid of it? As long as a game is still fun to you, keep it, and save up for the next one.

BTW, here's our previous discussion of FG vs TAF.

The Addams Family = 1992. Williams = out of business = no tech support = parts getting to be a pain to get.

Family Guy = 2007. Stern = still in business = tech support = warranty in some cases = parts available in case of a massive failure.


Any questions to what side I am leaning on? Game play is one thing, but if it is getting hard or expensive to keep it running at some point, screw it.

Quoted from Sparky

The Addams Family = 1992. Williams = out of business = no tech support = parts getting to be a pain to get.

Family Guy = 2007. Stern = still in business = tech support = warranty in some cases = parts available in case of a massive failure.


Any questions to what side I am leaning on? Game play is one thing, but if it is getting hard or expensive to keep it running at some point, screw it.

Who needs tech support when you have maaca, RGP, and cliffy guides?

Good point though, but it's questionable how long Stern will be around for.

TAF
-20,000+ units sold
-new plastics, pf etc being re-run by IPB (actually they are finished but they can't sell them yet).


FGY
-4,000 units???(I'm guessing).


Its a toss up.  Go with what you like.  But the argument of which company is still in business does not hold much water, unless we are taking Brunswick, Genco, Wico, Chicag Coin etc...

Quoted from Monkeybug

Its a toss up.  Go with what you like.

Totally agree. We could have an entire LONG thread about how long Stern will be around. The next releases don't look promising.

trade it if you want paul.  enjoy fg.   when/if you get bored of fg then trade it for another taf.

Objectively I would say the trade would be about even with a slight nod to TAF (for theme if nothing else).

I had both, I have Addams. You better really like the Theme and Humor of Family Guy, that was the only real draw for me. Oh, if you leave it on Factory settings, don't expect to many "Quick" games. It is fun, but not a real keeper for me.

Dave

Quoted from ALJO

On the other hand, when Stern will close there doors, which will most probably happen one day, I really think that there parts will be hard to find, there games are not as appreciated as Williams, Bally games are.

*sigh*  it's so frustrating to hear this day in and day out.  If Stern machines are so bad, then why is it they're the only ones still making machines?  Like them or not, at least they're keeping the business alive.

I just don't get all the Stern hatred.  On the flip side though, at least all the anti-stern feelings are keeping the prices low  

Quoted from machine.slave

*sigh*  it's so frustrating to hear this day in and day out.  If Stern machines are so bad, then why is it they're the only ones still making machines?  Like them or not, at least they're keeping the business alive.

I just don't get all the Stern hatred.  On the flip side though, at least all the anti-stern feelings are keeping the prices low  

For the most part, Claude is right. Williams games tend to hold their value much longer than DE/SEGA/Stern games do. It's arguable if they deserve this treatment, but it's a fact, they don't hold their value as well. But since the death of Williams, Stern has been able to snatch up their top designers, so things may have changed a bit, but the perception remains. The fact that Stern still stands and Williams is dead does not say a thing about the long term value or interest in the machines by collectors.

BTW, I don't hate Stern games. I own one. If LOTR had a Bally or Williams logo, it'd probably fetch $1k more. But then again, it would probably be working right now, and not sitting in my basement with busted flippers and magnet

"Williams games tend to hold their value much longer than DE/SEGA/Stern games do."

Before Williams closed their door, their games had a MUCH higher level of depreciation than current Sterns. Once the doors were closed, certain games started to go wwaaaaayyyyy up: MM, CV, MB, etc. Others basically held their ground or depreciated a bit: GetAway, GI, Shadow, etc. Sooooo.....

What do you think will happen if Stern closes their doors? My guess: TSPP, FG, LOTR, etc. (their "A" games) will go up. Others will hold their value, and HUO will command a premium (like it does now). Time will tell, but that's my thoughts.

Keep in mind, Williams had their "stinkers" too. Jackbot, while a good game, was produced around the time of ToM. Can you imagine if you choose a NIB Jackbot over a ToM? You would be pissed because the game lost so much value. If you had selected ToM, not so much.

Some Stern games have tanked in value: Ripley's, Nascar, etc. Others have remained pretty damn consistent: LOTR, FG, TSPP, etc. I don't think you can say Stern don't hold their value in all cases.

Duane

Quoted from machine.slave

I just don't get all the Stern hatred.  

I think you are wrong on that, and I think hate is really not the right word.
Collectors "hate" Stern because they feel they could be so much more than they are now. A collector often has a real passion for pinball and would love to see a company produce exciting new games on a regular basis. Just look at the some of the last releases from Stern, TDK, IJ4, WoF. Only Spiderman seems to have been accepted with some acclaim, even when Starburst offers WoF at $3K, there is not a mad rush to buy them.
The few operators I know "hate" Stern due to their reliabilty factor, "they need a new DMD every 15 months" is the common complaint I hear.
I fully understand that this is a business, and so does Gary Stern, he is trying to survive. I think to often people confuse "Hate" with passion.

Hopefully Stern will survive, but the current economic condition in the US will not help. Less disposable income will affect the operators which in the end means fewer new games are purchased, which makes it harder for Stern to survive.
    

Quoted from ALJO

You got me wrong Machineslave, I don't hate Sterns at all, I was just evaulating the market according to what I see. In fact I'm planning to buy stern pins in the future.

Claude.

I wasn't really attacking you,  Aljo, I was just pointing out your statement that the general consensus is: "Stern Sucks".  I know I haven't posted on here much but I've followed MAACA for a few years now, and have started getting into RGP recently as well.  It's just a shame that this anti-Stern feeling runs so deep.  Take my Starship Troopers for example.  It's actually a really fun game, but the scores on IPDB are skewed because some people have gone as far as write things like "I gave it 2 out of 10, because it's a Stern/Sega/DE -- but it's still a fun game!".  I mean, that just makes no sense to me.  Maybe I'm just missing the bigger picture..

But thanks, HP5P, what you say makes a little more sense.. that Stern is taking the easy road because the competition isn't there..  and I don't quite get some of the licenses they've chosen to run with either.  (TDK is a good game though, it just needs one hell of a software update)

Anyway, I didn't mean to take it off track here, it's just something that's been bugging me for some time.

I'd trade a TAF for a FG myself, but I prefer the FG theme.. but I'm with the guys who are saying, if you prefer a FG over TAF (or are bored with TAF), then go for it.  If you're trading for an investment, don't bother.

Quoted from HP5P

The few operators I know "hate" Stern due to their reliabilty factor, "they need a new DMD every 15 months" is the common complaint I hear.

    

That's weird..  Stern uses the same DMDs we buy from Marco, Bayarea, etc as replacements.  Stern doesn't make their own DMD!!!  So if there's a problem with DMDs it's not Stern's fault!!

Mike

So far I have two dead transistors on a Stern power board. Why they don't use better transistors is beyond me.

What I find hilarious is that most that are praising Williams today are the ones that were complaining about them pre-1999. Look at RGP. Look up any posts about P2K or any machines as stated like Jackbot. Text doesn't lie. I believe that most b**** about Stern because they are still around, period. I personally rather b**** on Williams and their half-assed way of handing out rights. As-is, it is a damn miracle that anything is being made. A real joke.

Quoted from jonny_eh

So far I have two dead transistors on a Stern power board. Why they don't use better transistors is beyond me.

You bought a routed machines. Things do break down.

Ask Workingpins about the wonderful experience he had when he bought a NIB SW:E1 while Williams was still in business. Cabinet art was scratched. Game didn't work out of the box and there was no tech support. Took him a month to isolate the problem to a ribbon cable and something else. Geoff has tons of stories about unloading NIB Williams games and having issues.

Duane

Quoted from MrMikeman

That's weird..  Stern uses the same DMDs we buy from Marco, Bayarea, etc as replacements.  Stern does make their own DMD!!!  So if there's a problem with DMDs it's not Stern's fault!!

Mike

Probably the DMD drivers more than the DMDs themselves.

Quoted from jonny_eh

So far I have two dead transistors on a Stern power board. Why they don't use better transistors is beyond me.

Cost.

Quoted from MrMikeman

That's weird..  Stern uses the same DMDs we buy from Marco, Bayarea, etc as replacements.  Stern does make their own DMD!!!  So if there's a problem with DMDs it's not Stern's fault!!

Mike

I used to build LED Display systems before my current job, and the only reason they would burn out is if you drive them to hard. Most LED's take a certain amount of current, if you exceed it, they burn out. But in a display setup like a DMD, the LED is pulsed to a higher current rating because they are on for a moment of a second, they wider the pulse the brighter the LED. Williams Displays used to gas out over time. Sterns DMD are usually burned in over time. My opinion is they are driving them to hard (to much current) to get better brightness, but they are shortening the life of the display.

My two cents.  

I know for me Stern hate is mostly Schtick. Somewhere long ago I was accused of not seeing the light on Stern and got labelled a Stern hater so I ran with it. If you ask me if I hate Stern straight out you can anticipate the answer. If you reference Stern in any of my posts you will get the standard Stern hater answer as well. If you take offence, I will laugh.

I am with Enzo though in that these new games could have more to them, but price point and trying to stay in this tough market is really playing against Stern. Selection of themes has also been commented on. Hell there are some damn good ones they ran with as well. Software seemed to be the redeeming quality that was an affordable pinball advancement, but Stern has had problems lately in that department as well. I don't know what was different when LOTR and TSPP were developed, but I wish some of that would come back. I think that any game with decent shots and great rules can make a good game regardless of toys. Toys are a bonus. Look at NF for example. There is nothing to it but the play shines for what it is.

As for owning Sterns I think one member who owned a pretty pricey one and who I will not name summed it up well. He basically said it felt like a $4000 toy. Now almost all these pinballs old and new are "toys" at this juncture since they aren't out on route collecting coin, but I think part of the collectibility is having something that is commercial grade and that was remembered operated out on route now being in your home. It's also unique to able to afford pinballs thanks in part to depreciation in many cases, not all but many, and at least widespread enough that almost anyone can find something in their budget. I am just not convinced to me that Stern fills that unique coin op quality for me since it is somewhat targeted to the straight to home market. If you want to buy it to bang around and have fun on then it may be for good for others, but for me when I say quality I am not refering to the construction of the game, but in fact the quality of owning the coin op experience.

I enjoy what Stern puts out there from a players side. New games, new rules etc. Could they be better? Maybe, but I don't see Sterns bottom line to make that determination. The best case scenerio would be to see Stern hang in there and make a little more money to re-invest in their games.

By the way I was at the airport in Edmonton last night. Not too many vids but a lineup of brand new Sterns. LOTR, TDK, SM, IJ4, FG. Maybe the operators will be forced back to pinballs because of it being unique.

Quoted from necro_nemesis

By the way I was at the airport in Edmonton last night. Not too many vids but a lineup of brand new Sterns. LOTR, TDK, SM, IJ4, FG. Maybe the operators will be forced back to pinballs because of it being unique.

That's refreshing to hear. Tell their friends in Ottawa to set up at least one game here.