Pharaoh, you should try using the warm white, they look less bright to me.

Quoted from Dipstick Jimmy

Mine has the Gum-Ball door panel flashers (was there when I bought it) and I think it would be silly not to have it.  Have you done the clock Led conversion or is it still regular bulbs creating all that heat? I think I will be doing the Gumball LED kit and I noticed on Vengances TZ he had lights around the back of the spiral loop that lit up a very dark area anyone know of a kit for that?  

I didn't add anything extra to my TZ in terms of lighting other then the Gumball light mod.

Sounds more like some of you GI might be out or the bulbs have just burned out.  

Regarding LED flicker:  I am way behind the times on what LED to use from whom and where.  I did get a bunch of sample LEDs from both Pinball Life and Cointaker a long time back when I thought about selling them.  Other things got in the way and I mixed them all so I have no idea which came from where.

In any case, I am experimenting with putting LEDs into my World Cup Soccer, a WPC-S game, which I thought a good candidate because it is so colourful.  Well I have the flickering issue with most of the 555-type LEDs I tried under inserts.  I put 3 LED Brights under the "Speed" "Stamina" etc. inserts and really liked the clean white light, although these were too bright (and as per the guide posted elsewhere) I have to try something a little less bright.

However here is the issue.  When I first put in the LEDs or when the machine first turns on, the LEDs light solidly... after a minute or two or in play, the insert (and GI) LEDs start to flicker.  SO my questions are, why do the LEDs take time to flicker, and what is the correct LED to illuminate the flicker?

Thanks!

I should add that I thought WPC Ghosting was different than "flicker", that is, that chosting is a second lighting after a bulb is turned off, flicker is a constant affect caused by the way the lamp matrix and dimmer circuits strobe/polarize power ... please educate me if I am wrong.

Quoted Text

what is the correct LED to illuminate the flicker?

I have heard it is a software issue on some WPC machines. There is a guy on RGP that has written a patch to correct it but not sure how or who can merge it with existing eprom images.  It relates to managing the CPU controlled lighting.

The no flicker from Germany have a miniature rectifier built in so that on an AC current the LEDs will light at 60Hz versus 30Hz on the +ve side of the sine wave for GI. This is where flicker is sometimes seen. Also maybe a small capacitor to smooth out the pulses.

I read a reference on RGP recently that stated that the Cointaker non-polarized LEDs have the rectifier, and the NoFlix Plus (which I was originally goign to represent in Canada, but passed) contain the rectifier plus smoothing capacitor.  

I don't know what the Ablaze ones contain... anyone?  ( I too had some Ablaze LEDs fail, some Cointaker ones hard to insert (and a could fail too).)

From what I can gather, the ghosting issue is separate from the flicker issue (in GI anyway which is AC).  I am trying to see if patched ROMs are available for World Cup Soccer and The Flintstones.

I have read that the other solution is to modify the GI circuit with the rectifier and capacitor to bring DC to the GI circuit instead of on each individual bulb to save money.  And something about new WPC replacement power supplies in the works to eliminate the GI flicker problem.  

The other concern with WPC GI is that it is fade controlled GI, which means that a circuit varies the intensity (Power Saver feature ) or for effect, rather than simply "on or off".

Quoted Text

The other concern with WPC GI is that it is fade controlled GI, which means that a circuit varies the intensity (Power Saver feature ) or for effect, rather than simply "on or off".

Fade is achieved by eliminating power to the circuit in some multiple of the 60Hz AC cycle. LED's do not work on circuits that fade/dim (eg. Party Zone).

You are correct about the NoFlix.

Somebody should make  put together a simple breadboard circuit to convert AC GI to DC for WPC. It wouldnt be difficult.

There is such a board for older Bally/Stern -17 and -35 and -100 etc. Cointaker sells the LED lamp driver board for $90.

I believe that Pinscore is working on replacement power boards for newer machines.

Here's one for System 7 to 11B : http://www.ksarcade.net/jolt-replacement-power-supply.html

Quoted from Vengeance

I didn't add anything extra to my TZ in terms of lighting other then the Gumball light mod.

Sounds more like some of you GI might be out or the bulbs have just burned out.  

Adam you seem to have it it right on .  This is why I love Maaca.  You learn stuff that you didn't know you didn't know.  I ran the GI test and nothing lights up.  All my ordered lamps work except a 5 million by the piano but I didn't realize more lighting should be there.  

With regard to LED usage in pinballs in Europe, the guys at NoFlix told me that mostly people in Europe change the insert bulbs to LEDs and leave the GI and Flashers as incandescant.  Thought this may be of interest to some.

Quick update on NoFlix Plus from Germany. (Sorry no pics yet.)

These are very good, very bright and stable even when under controlled voltage in a WPC machine.  I haven't tried them yet in my Xenon to see if they prevent flicker there (but I bet they do).  But expensive!  I have Pinball Life LEDs and they don't compare.  THe Cointaker ones are better than the Pinball Life, but not as good as the NoFlix Plus.

The only issue I find is that because of the capacitor on board, they will present some residual light when turned off and some light if there's any stray voltage present.