something we all know and love


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

WHAT'S WRONG WITH CAPS?!

You buy cheap mess components to build your product in order to save a few bucks, and you end up with a mess product that costs you WAY more than the money you saved.

I deal with things like this on a daily basis. Sometimes a manufacturer cuts the wrong corner... and gets burned badly.

Save dollars???? In the case of PCB's the whole board might cost a few dollars assembled. Someone who is in the know (I won't mention names) recently told me that the main board in the newer Sterns probably cost something like $10. or so. Seriously! Based on the volume they get made overseas, and excluding development cost of course.

Quoted from wbradley

Save dollars???? In the case of PCB's the whole board might cost a few dollars assembled. Someone who is in the know (I won't mention names) recently told me that the main board in the newer Sterns probably cost something like $10. or so. Seriously! Based on the volume they get made overseas, and excluding development cost of course.

How much volume do you think Stern has for its electronics? They sell less than 10k units a year.

Quoted Text

How much volume do you think Stern has for its electronics? They sell less than 10k units a year.  

This comes from someone who is as close to being an insider as they could possibly be.

What do you think things cost from China, anyway? The customs costs could be more than the product.  Also, don't forget, these boards are the same for several years.  For example the current SAM system. They might have enough made for a few years in one order if it is cost effective. All that changes from model to model is the flash memory content.

I was surprised, but not very! Maybe Im exaggerating, it might be $25/ board. Also, they might add connectors or game specific chips in the US afterward.

Quoted from wbradley

Save dollars???? In the case of PCB's the whole board might cost a few dollars assembled. Someone who is in the know (I won't mention names) recently told me that the main board in the newer Sterns probably cost something like $10. or so. Seriously! Based on the volume they get made overseas, and excluding development cost of course.

You just proved my point. Stern goes the cheap way for their components, thus have a high failure rate. Cheap labor + cheap parts = cheap PCB.

And as Jonny said, volume is not an issue here. Stern probably buys the minimum amount of boards for their machines. Not like a company building CPUs for computers or game consoles that make close to if not more than a million. The more you make, the less the cost per unit.

20 years ago, it was unthinkable for a company to have a PCB built in China or Taiwan, as they had a reputation of building total crap. Today the Chinese have raised their standards a bit, but remain with a culture of reverse-engineering and copying. "we will build them cheaper for you" is their way. BUT... the companies ordering from the Chinese are just as guilty if not even more... they ASK to have cheap stuff on their systems.

The thing about pinball is that it is a unit-based sales market and not a parts-service sales market like I work in. Stern has ZERO interest on putting in quality in their machines because there is nothing in it for them in the parts sales or service sales, and their warranty is what... 3 months? They make their money on unit sales. So they don't have to build their machines to last 20 years. They can go the cheapie way and for the most part get away with it.

This being said, we are a society of consumption. People today don't pay top dollar fro things that will last. Cases in point:

- many pay a low price for MDF furniture at Ikea, but if they paid twice the price, they could have a piece of furniture that would last a generation, instead of 5 years... but they don't

- people pay low prices on cheap cars and change it every 5 years, taking a hit with depreciation, instead of buying a well-built car at twice the price that will last them 20 years without a single problem

- look at a new house today, and look at one built 100 years ago. The old one was built to last and will most probably be standing in another 100 years. Houses today? Chances are they will get knocked down in 40 years or completely gutted.

That's progress for you.

Don't forget, much of what we buy from Asia is designed/engineered here. It is all about cheap labour. Higher paid labour jobs are kept here for the most part. You won't see hand assembled military grade PCBs coming from Asia because companies are willing to pay to have extra quality control hence the budget for local workers wages.

Like it or not, your living standard is better through cheaply made imported products.

I certainly agree with buying well crafted durable goods, like furniture. My home would be empty before I would buy crap. It was slow coming and we did without before finally getting most of our major stuff. However, people need things and not everyone can wait or find the funds to buy Canadian/American.

I am sure from a business perspective offshore makes sense for Stern.  They are catering to the operators and  the home users are simply allowing operators a decent resale when the time comes.  Time wise, operators need to swap boards to reduce down time. Like car manufacturers, Stern has another revenue stream with OEM product. Don't count that out of the profitability chain.

It's a business, not a hobby for them. Maybe for the best designers there is a passion for pinball. But in the end it's money that makes them a viable industry.

We are hobbiests and don't look at this from a business perspective. If we did, perhaps we could appreciate Sterns approach. I personally like most of their machines, just wish there were other manufacturers as well.

I don't want to live like the Amish, making everything to last a lifetime, but I do want their quality for my big stuff.  For other stuff, most of us probably enjoy variety and occasional change. That is what makes things diverse and interesting.

Just wait until India and China are the undisputed economic superpowers. They did it with cheap labour and overpopulation.