I shake my head..

Had folks over last night..  Non pin folks that really liked pins as kids..  1 of the guys had a Firepower at home for years but got rid of it years ago when it broke down..

So...  Both guys enjoyed the Stern Galaxy the most  

Yes my uncleaned, worn, not fully working Galaxy with the flaked, 4/10 Backglass that looks like mess..  I've got over 10K in 3 pins and they pick the 200$ one as their fave...  Wanted to cry...

The wives played all of the pins about equally I don't think they had a favourite.

The jukebox and peanut machine both got LOT's of attention!  The kids mostly played non-stop for 3 hours on the Road Riot and MAME.

BTW I'm beating MB on a regular basis now so it may be time to get rid of it...  


Mike

Non-pin folks? Hmmm... I hate to dissapoint, but I would have played just as much Galaxy as I would have MB. What it comes down to is reminiscing. Most of us here grew up playing early SS pins. So we naturally head for what we know better and used to play. Of course, MB is much better, but you can't beat sentimental favorites... I wouldn't even trade my Flash Gordon for a MB straight up, because I know I will get over MB quick... but FG just keeps me coming back and making me remember popping quarters in one as a kid.

Can't beat that...


Sparky

Quoted from Sparky

Most of us here grew up playing early SS pins. So we naturally head for what we know better and used to play. Sparky

Well that's what I thought with Meteor - spent TONS in that as a kid...  But when I had it I thought it sucked..  Maybe I should get a F2K   Maybe the multiball thing would make it more interesting..  Spent tons in that one too..

Mike

No doubt about it, people seemed to be more intimidated by the newer machines. I've had friends over that wouldn't even have ONE game on a STTNG I owned a while back. Too complicated-looking they said.  

So, your guests being non-pin folks, I'm not surprised they flocked to the Galaxy. BTW, great game!

Dave
http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/dmp65

Quoted from maestro

So, your guests being non-pin folks, I'm not surprised they flocked to the Galaxy. BTW, great game!

Dave
http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/dmp65

1 of the guys mentioned he was a big drop-target fan..  Too bad the Laser Ball wasn't ready!!  

Mike

Quoted from maestro

Too complicated-looking they said.  

That's just it! Newer pins are just too complicated. Non-pin people don't want to have to *think* when they play a game. They just want to be able to determine what needs to be done within 10 seconds of walking up to the machine. I enjoy playing new pins once I understand what needs to be done in order to be successful. Unfortunately, I have little interest in investing the time in takes to learn what needs to be done. I'd rather just press start, begin playing and learn as I go. And I find most non-pin people are the same. The more simplistic the game, the better. Add a bit of nostalgia factor and older games win hands down.

Corey

Quoted from MrMikeman

BTW I'm beating MB on a regular basis now so it may be time to get rid of it...  

I don't get around through my machines often enough to have any mastery on them. I think that may be some sort subconscious bragging statement, but it's true. So even HSII and the like stay. I keep the themes I like regardless of mastering them, because I don't.

Simple games and strategies are what non players understand. If there are three banks of drop targets then it makes sense to knock them all down. Pretty easy to grasp.

Players like rules and things that are fun to do.

Collectors like impossible rules, cool themes, great lighting, great art, awesome sounds, fair scoring etc. etc. etc.

When you look at what we as collectors and regular players judge a game by, it's pretty hard to understand what a non player is looking at when they approach a game. It's like me looking at a Picasso and saying "Who let the crazy guy have some paint?"

Quoted from cooke

That's just it! Newer pins are just too complicated.

...........And old pins quickly lose my interest. I personally do not care what "non-collectors like", it is MY collection and I do not collect pins for others. Lately the air hockey table gets more play than my pins and that is fine with me.

Quoted from HP5P

...........And old pins quickly lose my interest. I personally do not care what "non-collectors like", it is MY collection and I do not collect pins for others.

Very true. The only people that have any appreciation for what you have there tend to be other collectors, which is fine by me. Who wants to play a game against someone that doesn't even offer a challenge? I find those games more of a demo of what the game can do than an actual competition.

My experience is the exact opposite. True non-pin people -- folks that never really played pinball -- ALWAYS go for the newer, more interesting looking game -- at least at my house. In my experience, TOM and Cyclone were HUGE hits as they did something fun that newbies could hit again and again (even if not getting alot of points, they enjoyed it). In the case of cyclone, the ferris wheel was the gimmick. In the case of ToM, it was the magic trunk.

Interesting enough, though, most folks don't like Funhouse even though it has Rudy. Most complain it is "too hard" even when I explain the relatively simple rules.

Another favorite was BS: D. Everyone loved mist multiball which was relatively easy to get on the last ball.

Looking at Mike's original post, I'd hardly call his male friends non-pinheads. Both played pinball when they were young. So it's natural they would play the game they remember from their youth. Also, one said he liked "drop targets". A true non-pin person wouldn't have a clue what a drop target is.

I'm with Necro and Enzo, the old games are fun....at someone else's house. They get really boring when played over and over again. For my money, I'll stick with the newer, more interesting pins.

Duane

Quoted from MrMikeman

BTW I'm beating MB on a regular basis now so it may be time to get rid of it...  


Mike

yup... WAY too easy

Quoted from Mrhide

yup... WAY too easy

I don't get MoR very often to be honest. Guess I should sell everything else and focus on this one so I too can share in your feeling of disappointment.

My sentiment with MB is if you don't get MOR you are having a crappy game, it is necessary to have a decent game.  

I grew up on Strikes and Spares, 8 ball, Sinbad, Xenon and Black Knight.  I have a BK and hopefully will never get rid of it.  Especially since Bruno (mindstorm8 did a great job on my BK boards.  In fact after just getting it running again I scored 2 million plus.  Nothing great but I was happy.  Especially filling up all the bonus and getting 5x.  I love that feeling.

Quoted from Vengeance

My sentiment with MB is if you don't get MOR you are having a crappy game, it is necessary to have a decent game.  

Yeah when people play mine they get really disapointed when they see that a replay is awarded @ 108M when they can't even get 10M..

I haven't done 2 MoR in 1 game yet however I have done multiple MB in a game..  Last weekend I had a MB turn into a MoR in the middle of the multiball since I finished the last instrument..  That was cool..

I'm at the point where I don't play 'cause I know the games last too long  ...  It was the same thing with LOTR when I got rid of it.

Mike

Quoted from TwilightZone

My experience is the exact opposite. True non-pin people -- folks that never really played pinball -- ALWAYS go for the newer, more interesting looking game -- at least at my house. In my experience, TOM and Cyclone were HUGE hits as they did something fun.

Duane,

Funhouse and Cyclone do NOT count as "newer" pins   , those are classics (well Funhouse is one of the last of the pre-WPC classics).  At my place EMs and early SS still cause a stir because they are unique to most of the players and non-players. They like the typical ching chime, of the stereotypical old time pinball.  And everyone gravitates back to them, but they don't play them long (mind you some like Centigrade 37 and Stern Trident got a lot of play).  Firepower was a winner, though that typical early electronics sound bank of synthesized sounds that they used and reused, can get to you after a while.

Then the non-collectors (that's what the subject says....) like machines that have two other qualities, 1) a rocking sound or effects track, one that attracts attention, doesn't talk too much but creates a crescendo of excitement, whether that's because it has an applause track (like High Speed, Shaq or WCS'94)  or it appeals to a certain ages' music appeal (in my house that would be Laser War and BK2K), or 2) it has some easy to hit exciting features like a looping ramp.  If a game doesn't have an easily achieved exciting payout, it just won't keep its newbie audience long(which was the magic of  the Steve Richie and crew mid-era Williams, I believe).  It's like gambling,  if you hit big early, you stay and play more.  If it takes work or you fizzle, you move on.  

Only player collectors with their own machines (or die hard arcade junkies) like to be continually challenged on a long term basis.

Then lastly there's the newer and relatively unknown and complicated machines and franchise theme machines.  I personally like ST:TNG but I was both a fan of the show and a regular player at our local watering hole.  Other players? Well I have yet to see how they will react but I am thinking it will be a luke warm affair.  We'll see.  For me, as a non-collector, Twilight Zone was a turn off.  I think my crowd would probably like TSPP or Family Guy.  I would like Stargate (loved the movie and the series), but the rest of the crowd might not.

Personally I am banking on Cirqus Voltaire to be my next (yeah right) big acquisition to appeal to both my friends and me (those who like the whoopla and fanfare).  I should acquire another Shaq Attaq if I could find room for it, it was a big crowd pleaser and a GREAT multi-player game.  With other multiplayer games people walk away while the others are playing out their turn, with Shaq, people would watch to see if you could make baskets and the cheers and applause and "MULTI-BALL" shouts would bring people around the machine in an instant (even if play is a little predictable).

In the meantime I have bought a Cyclone (Pat's).  Personally I like it, it's simpler than FunHouse (and less scarey for kids and me), and easy to make loops.  I predict it will be popular with friends too. Soundtrack, ik, but easy loops, and the rollercoaster sounds, yes!

For me the hobby is about fixing them, cleaning them, and pleasing/surprising my friends and family.  (And buying eBay NOS parts, apparently.) If a machine sits idle for too long, it goes.

I think we all like the aspect that we're preserving a little bit of history, bringing back some memories for our buds.  But it takes nutcases, like the collectors, to have more than one machine that sits collecting dust in the corner of your gamesroom that gives us opportunities to actually have threads like this.

Quoted from websherpa

(well Funhouse is one of the last of the pre-WPC classics).  

No..  Funhouse is the FIRST WPC classic.

Mike

Quoted from MrMikeman

No..  Funhouse is the FIRST WPC classic.

Mike

Sorry I meant to say one of the last of the pre-DMD Williams classics.