Hey guys,

I know a lot of you are computer experts here on the boards and I'm in the process of shopping for a new computer. I'm hoping to get some feedback/suggestions on what is the latest/greatest and good value for the money. I should mention I'm not really interested in "building" my own computer and would prefer to simply find a model that suits my needs and will keep me current for a couple of years with flexibility to upgrade. Plus, it has to run VPinMAME flawlessly

Anyway, here's a laptop I was looking at that I thought fit the bill:
http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/.....logon=&langid=EN

This is to replace a desktop unit at home for personal use. If you have a moment, please look at the specs and let me know what you think. Of course, I'm also open to suggestions on other brands/models.

Dave
http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/dmp65

I would recommend a Mac, but it can only run vpinmame using boot camp (dual boot into Windows). (That's how I do it)

Historically I have been a PC guy since 5.25 floppies and no hard drives.  I bought a new Mac last spring and don't regret it for a second.

vpinmame and visual pinball could really use some ports! Mac and xbox come to mind. Too bad it's so dependent on crummy Windows interfaces.

Oh boy, oh boy another MAC vs PC debate!  I could go on and on why MAC's suck a** and only real use is for graphics but I find these two links do a much more efficient job then I ever could.

http://cad-comic.com/comic.php?d=20060513

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1buD6Rx4isA

As for if you a buying a PC, I tell everyone who is not really into technology but wants a decent machine the same thing....

Call Dell!

Dell offers decent price with decent hardware and has bar none the best service and support of any computer manufacturer to date.  I've dealt with every major manufacture of computer systems right now, Sun, HP, IBM, etc and none of them offer the service and support Dell does.  Epically in the home environment, you have a problem with your machine, call Dell, they will help you through it, your hard drive died?  Call Dell someone will come ON-Site to your house and replace it for you next business day!  Don't bother with the big box stores they offer crappy hardware at inflated prices and then if you run into any problems you get to deal with their crappy service department.  Get the extended warranty from Dell and you are covered for everything for the next 3 years.

Ditto what Adam just said.

We use them exlusively here @ my office, and I've always been impressed with the service Dell provides.  Pricing is hard to beat as well.

D.

Quoted from Vengeance

Oh boy, oh boy another MAC vs PC debate!  I could go on and on why MAC's suck a** and only real use is for graphics but I find these two links do a much more efficient job then I ever could.

http://cad-comic.com/comic.php?d=20060513

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1buD6Rx4isA

As for if you a buying a PC, I tell everyone who is not really into technology but wants a decent machine the same thing....

Call Dell!

Dell offers decent price with decent hardware and has bar none the best service and support of any computer manufacturer to date.  I've dealt with every major manufacture of computer systems right now, Sun, HP, IBM, etc and none of them offer the service and support Dell does.  Epically in the home environment, you have a problem with your machine, call Dell, they will help you through it, your hard drive died?  Call Dell someone will come ON-Site to your house and replace it for you next business day!  Don't bother with the big box stores they offer crappy hardware at inflated prices and then if you run into any problems you get to deal with their crappy service department.  Get the extended warranty from Dell and you are covered for everything for the next 3 years.

You're the one starting the debate. Both PCs and Macs have their place. Everyone knows that Vista is a piece of junk, and that's what you get if you buy from Dell.

I've been a PC user my whole life, and switched to Mac last year, and have been loving it. As a computer engineer I know a good design when I see one, and Apple designs the best computer hardware and software. It's weakpoint is still niche software support like vpinmame or games like Half-Life. Other than that, my mac is much easier and enjoyable to use. The other big downside is that they cost more, you have to decide for yourself if it's worth it.

I'm not even going to waste my breath, it's not worth it.

I will say one thing I allways find funny, the statment...

"I love my MAC, I just needed software so I could run a MAC version of Windows so I can use all the windows software"

So a MAC user, buys a MAC to get away from Windows but then finds an emulator so he can run windows software on a MAC????

Yea this sounds like the sort of forward thinking of a MAC user, buy incompatiable hardware to get away from something only to use other software so you can retain use of that software, why not just elliminate the middle man and BUY A PC!

go for mac. i've been a pc user (windows for gaming, linux for work/school) my whole life as well. i switched to mac ever since OS X became the operating system - it is based on technology developed 15 years ago at a company called NeXT (NeXTStep). the stuff they developed there would give any software geek a hard-on and i think it's awesome how it is now available to everyone and even more modernized than before. i'm not going to go into the gory details of why OS X is better than windows but just know that it is, in stability and usability.

besides, you can always dual-boot windows and os x on the apple laptops. the macbook pros are often rated as the best performing *WINDOWS* laptops on the market.

be careful with dells. pc's have their place but i would avoid that brand (unless you're buying one of their LCD's which are wonderful). at one point at my old office we had a 30% failure rate on our dell desktops. if you're going to buy a PC at least go for Lenovo (ex-IBM), HP or Toshiba.

go with what you need determine what applications you use the most and then look at all the possibilities. I always give a chuckle to some people who buy high end everything and just do email and surf. will comment that i use both windows and mac os and have no problems with either. as far as hardware goes Dell warranty is good if you get the extended warranty, have allot of laptops and service is good. there has been lemons in all companies so no matter what you buy get extended warranty. good luck!

To answer your question, if it's to replace your desktop, why are you looking at a laptop? are you travelling? sure it's fun to have one but for the same price, you'll be able to get a *much better* desktop.

Also, laptops are pretty much not upgradable while desktop NOT built by dell, hp and the likes, are much more friendly to upgrade.  Any decent PC shop will built you one to your specs, you don't have to do it yourself.

Check those out for ideas

http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=3148
http://www.sharkyextreme.com/guides/EGBG/article.php/3707471

Quoted from Menace

Ditto what Adam just said.

We use them exlusively here @ my office, and I've always been impressed with the service Dell provides.  Pricing is hard to beat as well.

D.

Dell is good.  And they now offer Linux as well.

Just to chime in ...

-Decide if you want laptop or desktop.  The link provided would lead me to believe that you want a laptop
Personally I can't stand laptops and as a result know little about them

-OS .. this is determined by what you know and what applications you are going to use.
Have not used mac in 8 years so unless you are running 7.5.3 I can't help you
Windows- Avoid Vista if possible ... there are still too many bugs in this OS and it WILL make your life painful.
Linux - There is just too many and it comes down to personal taste ... Rhat for me ... but will take Irix on my Octane any day.

Memory: Unfortunately I think the minimum for any system if you plan to use it past the next 8 months will need 2 Gb or ram.  If you get 4 you should be set for some years to come .. but note that you must have a 64-bit operating system to take advantage of this otherwise your system will only see 2 gb  (for tech ppl yes I know there is a 3 gb switch).  Also note that I have 16 gb and sometimes run out of memory so depending on the work you do YMMV.

CPU: Depends on what you do.  I prefer AMD as I find the floating point calculations faster than Intel.  Really either CPU would be fine for mainstream applications.

Multi-Core CPU: Depends on what you do.  Realize that most software is not multi-threaded, so it can not and will not take advantage of the additional processing power on your system.  Vista try's to load balance process across the cores but is not perfect and in some cases makes things slower.  On a related note, I can't wait for my 30 core system to come shortly.  Can any one say whoosh ..

Video card: Not my thing .. but prefer Nvidia as it is generally more stable on Linux for me.

HD: (hard disk) 300 gb should be enough .. if your going to store mp3 and mame related stuff get another 500 gb drive for misc items and add another drive as it fills up.  There are also 1 tb consumer drives, have fun backing that puppy up.


Where to buy.

All vendors have their faults but as mentioned above .. if you want the least amount of hassle go with Dell as the tech and warranty support you purchase actually has some real service behind it.
If you go with another place like best buy and Future shop nothing bad will happen but you won't have an 800 number handy for the what if scenarios.  Also pay attention as the deal of the weeks computers are refurbished systems.

I've been using personal computers since the Osborne (what's that, somethign like 30 years ago now?), I was an Apple Registered Consultant, sold Macs, Ataris, Amigas and PC's for years, and a Network installer for a few more years, and today I do design and build websites for a living (for the past 10 years or so).

In laptops, I personally like higher end Toshibas the best, they keep their value and with a decent extended warranty (like Futureshop) they can be resold very easily at the end of their 3 year window lifespan.  I have a Mac and I tried to save money by buying a Dell Inspiron 6400 Notebook (decked out), I love Macs but as far as the software and performance I need I use the PC 90% of the time.  Given a new purchase I'd go back to Toshiba (depending on configuration), I had nothing but trouble with my Dell Inspiron (it was exchanged twice).  I was one day outside my warranty when I finally decided I'd had enough, but they wouldn't allow me to return it. Definitely not to buy for someone who has to configure hardware themselves and doesn't have the knowledge about what goes with what, in fact I made the mistake of purchasing a too high monitor resolution due to the sales pressure for "extras" and regret it - old eyes - (I use a dual monitor set-up with a Samsung Syncmaster 215TW which I love).  

I've had good experiences with Dell desktops and rugged workstations and servers though. My clients who have switched to Mac ibooks say they love them, and yet I watched one client struggle embarassed for 15 minutes to get a slide show to run properly.

All my clients HATE VISTA, though eventually you turn off the security and get used to it.  I personally continue to use WIndows XP Pro.

The moral of the story is that you need to shop in person, feel and test computers side-by-side and decide for yourself what you like and feel comfortable with.  Collect opinions yes, but they are as varied as opinions about the best pinball machines to play.

Quoted from Mrhide

To answer your question, if it's to replace your desktop, why are you looking at a laptop? are you travelling? sure it's fun to have one but for the same price, you'll be able to get a *much better* desktop.

Agree.   And if you really want portable internet surfing you can buy a cheap laptop for around $600.   This would play videos, surf the net, support a scanner by the workshop, etc.  But still use the desktop for intensive activities, and massive disk-storage (ripping dvds and storing the photos / videos / etc.)

The only beef I have about the two machines in the house - is bookmarking links, etc.   You may be surfing with the laptop and bookmark something that you later don't have when surfing @ the desktop.   There are tools like http://del.icio.us/ but they are not that convenient.

Thanks for the awesome feedback, guys!

I appreciate some of your suggestions on going with MAC, but my preference is for a PC. Oddly enough, I have a DELL desktop right now, but I've heard/read so many horror stories about their quality control recently that I wasn't even really considering them. I guess I should take another look!

I was thinking of going with a laptop so I could have more flexibility (ie: sitting on the deck, in front of the fireplace, etc) that I obviously would not have with a dekstop, but maybe I will reconsider this as well based on your comments.  

Yes, it will mainly be used for email and internet surfing, but also video, photos, TV, games....y'know, all the usual entertainment stuff. I just wanted to try and sort through the hype of dual core processors, video and audio cards to find out what to look for, and I truly appreciate everyone's advice.

Thanks!

Dave
http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/dmp65

Quoted from Tuborg

Agree.   And if you really want portable internet surfing you can buy a cheap laptop for around $600.   This would play videos, surf the net, support a scanner by the workshop, etc.  But still use the desktop for intensive activities, and massive disk-storage (ripping dvds and storing the photos / videos / etc.)

The only beef I have about the two machines in the house - is bookmarking links, etc.   You may be surfing with the laptop and bookmark something that you later don't have when surfing @ the desktop.   There are tools like http://del.icio.us/ but they are not that convenient.

Quoted from jonny_eh

Everyone knows that Vista is a piece of junk, and that's what you get if you buy from Dell.

That is SO not true...  You can still buy any of Dell's systems with XP or Vista, as I just added a couple of desktops for the office with XP Pro on them. (and the latest Dell flyer I received has all the new Vostro systems with Xp Pro or Vista, buyers choice)  The one thing you CANNOT get from Dell anymore is Office 2k3......

D.

Quoted from Tuborg

Agree.   And if you really want portable internet surfing you can buy a cheap laptop for around $600.   This would play videos, surf the net, support a scanner by the workshop, etc.  But still use the desktop for intensive activities, and massive disk-storage (ripping dvds and storing the photos / videos / etc.)

The only beef I have about the two machines in the house - is bookmarking links, etc.   You may be surfing with the laptop and bookmark something that you later don't have when surfing @ the desktop.   There are tools like http://del.icio.us/ but they are not that convenient.

For syncing bookmarks I recommend browser sync extension for firefox from google. I can sync my bookmarks/cookies/saved passwords between mutliple computers, with different OSes (as long as it supports firefox).

Get it here

If you are just gonna use it to watch videos, and read web pages, why not give an ipod touch a look?

Cool - thanks Johnny.   del.ic.ious was around 4 years ago - I guess I gotta keep up...

I'll chime in for Dell as well. The support and product are outstanding. I recently purchased 2 desktops for my company. I have no complaints with Dell and will continue to use them for future purchases. I find their prices are even cheaper for accessories. For example, I wanted an ergo keyboard and it was cheaper to order from Dell than buy it at Future Shop.

Regarding their support...We had one issue with our 2 systems and they shipped a replacement part AND took the defective component back w/o any cost on my end.

Duane

You don't get it! The only real reason to get a PC is Games. I myself would consider it for that reason alone but with the consoles kicking a** there is no point now.

Quoted from Vengeance

Oh boy, oh boy another MAC vs PC debate!  I could go on and on why MAC's suck a** and only real use is for graphics but I find these two links do a much more efficient job then I ever could.

http://cad-comic.com/comic.php?d=20060513

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1buD6Rx4isA

As for if you a buying a PC, I tell everyone who is not really into technology but wants a decent machine the same thing....

Call Dell!

Dell offers decent price with decent hardware and has bar none the best service and support of any computer manufacturer to date.  I've dealt with every major manufacture of computer systems right now, Sun, HP, IBM, etc and none of them offer the service and support Dell does.  Epically in the home environment, you have a problem with your machine, call Dell, they will help you through it, your hard drive died?  Call Dell someone will come ON-Site to your house and replace it for you next business day!  Don't bother with the big box stores they offer crappy hardware at inflated prices and then if you run into any problems you get to deal with their crappy service department.  Get the extended warranty from Dell and you are covered for everything for the next 3 years.

Quoted from 1

You don't get it! The only real reason to get a PC is Games. I myself would consider it for that reason alone but with the consoles kicking a** there is no point now.

...yeah and Beta was better. I was soooo hoping Apple would fold a few years ago and save us from the MAC non-sense... then they go and release iPod --- which is another useless "sexy" piece of overpriced technology (get an MP3 player and you're good to go and have a few $$$ in your pocket). -- and start making money again.

Duane

Question, How many of you used a Mac for more than 5 minutes in a store somewhere? If you haven't used one for at least enough time to make a proper comment base on experience you should refrain from any comments as is the case on most of these debates. If you have the experience and still prefer a Windows machine (not a PC because they are both technically PC�s) then good for you.

I have recently visited my buddies at the Applestore here in Laval and they have pointed out that at least 30% of their customers are Windows converts

I owned quite a few Apples over the years. My company was up to 18 people at one point. All had employees had PCs but the 2 graphic guys. The Apples were a pain. Hardware and software MUCH more expensive than PCs. They had as many, if not more, crashes -- they were especially prone to problems when updating the operating system. And the biggest selling point of the Mac converts -- Macs are so easy to understand -- is bogus. The Mac environment, like Windows, takes time to understand.

At the end of the day, I treat a computer like a tool. I buy the most popular tool with the greatest support. I really don't think Macs are any better than PCs. At the same time, I don't think PCs are better than Macs. BUT PCs are cheaper with more support (software, etc), so at the end of the day I'll stick with a PC and nod off every time a Mac zealot starts going...

Duane

I have used both world and supported them on a technical area.
I love the mac i always liked it but you always needed apps like conflict catcher and apps like that to keep your apps from running correct and in a proper maner.
But with mac OSX that s a thing of the past and allot more stable it is very solid and also has a unix background that makes it fun.
If I could afford a mac I would get one but I cant and on applicatiuon point of vue I would be sol.
Equally pc is great also has allot to offord and can do many things because microsoft or bill gates was better able to market the pc dos and windows then mac was ever able to do.
Also a high end pc can be had for allot less then a mac one same for the low end so that never helped mac.
The mac clones was a good ideas they should have stayed on that path.
When they did it was almost to late for them and almost had to close and then Steve came back then Imacs started they saved apple then they started with another slope and well ipods iphones you name it but atleast they kicked microsoft a** on one market.
But I use a pc for following reasons i Play games I have allot of apps that mac does not have and emulations mac has some but nothing as near as pc.
For me mac and pc are the same just tools but one is missing allot of the key things you need to make it praticall to all users.
Mac has to get application support much higher then it is to survive hell look at the OS os2 warp was good and strong failled due to no app support.
On another note vista does suck

Quoted from 1

Question, How many of you used a Mac for more than 5 minutes in a store somewhere? If you haven't used one for at least enough time to make a proper comment base on experience you should refrain from any comments as is the case on most of these debates. If you have the experience and still prefer a Windows machine (not a PC because they are both technically PC�s) then good for you.

I have recently visited my buddies at the Applestore here in Laval and they have pointed out that at least 30% of their customers are Windows converts

That is an other thing. My experience with computers is quite the opposite. Always issues and only issues for me on the windows side. Thing is it's not all cut and dry. IF you are a savy Computer User you will be able to do well with both. If not, then you have to rely on the tech support and so on. I sold both PC's and Mac and my Mac users hardly ever called me for tech support. But this could be the complete opposite for an other sales rep so there is no real answer to this ever ending debate. It all comes down to the individual and thier preferences.

Your Software angle is not so true- I have always found software for Mac to do anything that you can do on a Windows machine. As far as games go, the Windows machines wins hands down for shear quantity. Quality games is another thing altogether. The Big names tend to be available on both platforms.

Mac being Easy to understand - It depends from what of the tracks your on. If your a die hard Windows user of course the learning curve will be a little longer. Habit is a hard thing to break. From a newbie point of view I think it would be easier to use a Mac.

Quoted from 1

I sold both PC's and Mac and my Mac users hardly ever called me for tech support.

That's because when it "stopped working",  they just bought a new one

Quoted from 1

Mac being Easy to understand - It depends from what of the tracks your on. If your a die hard Windows user of course the learning curve will be a little longer. Habit is a hard thing to break.

Same can be said of to a Mac user  

At the end of the day, we will agree to disagree. You cann't sell me your religion which is what it is. There is no logic to say one is better than the other. It's merely a belief...in the case of Mac users...normally a very, very strong belief.

Duane

Quoted from TwilightZone

other. It's merely a belief...in the case of Mac users...normally a very, very strong belief.
Duane

this also goes both ways.

Quoted from 1

Question, How many of you used a Mac for more than 5 minutes in a store somewhere? If you haven't used one for at least enough time to make a proper comment base on experience you should refrain from any comments as is the case on most of these debates. If you have the experience and still prefer a Windows machine (not a PC because they are both technically PC�s) then good for you.

That would be me.  I like Macs, for some things, I used to worship them (and Apples before that), then Amigas blew Macs out of the water (computing power wise), and PC's (still the generic term for MS-DOS through to Vista OS computers...) were less expensive, more easily configurable, a larger range of hardware options, faster processors in some cases, and just had more of the software and infrastructure that both I and my clients needed and so I mostly switched.  I will agree that the Mac OS Software engineers got it right, developed a great intuitive GUI and then MADE 3rd party software developers stick to it (no going around the GUI).

Quoted Text

I have recently visited my buddies at the Applestore here in Laval and they have pointed out that at least 30% of their customers are Windows converts

But this particular argument couldn't fight it's way out of a paper bag since statistically there are so many more PC users than Mac's it's very statistically probable that many more shoppers in a Mac store would have been PC users than the other way around.

However the argument is forever settled by this clever little set of parodies: http://tinyurl.com/35sqzx

P.S. Dell's experience and build quality on Desktops is much better than on their laptops.  You pay for what you get.

A couple more good ones: http://tinyurl.com/39bsfn

http://tinyurl.com/38javz

Getting even better (I play games while I wait for my Mac to shut down): http://tinyurl.com/2shvfs

DIversions: [url]http://tinyurl.com/3e5h4e [/url], [url]http://tinyurl.com/3y4r7f [/url], [url]http://tinyurl.com/2jeobj [/url]

...it goes on and on, you get the idea.