I have to ask to all of you experienced buyers and sellers.  What is going on with the difference in price for the DMD made by Williams over the one made by Gottlieb in early 90's. I have been shopping just to see what I would like to buy but cannot help noticing the difference in price for similar conditions machines but made by different companies.  It may be happening with other brands but I find Gottlieb to be quite noticeable.

Am I wrong?  Any expert (or not) opinions?

tks

I wonder what difference you're noticing...can you explain?  Are you saying Williams or Gottlieb is more expensive for similar years, features etc? Because I have found prices to be pretty fair for both if you look long enough and avoid gougers.

Stan

I get the feeling Gottlieb are usually cheaper over Williams for similar features.  I may be totally wrong but that is why I am asking.  

tks

Simple...

Supply and Demand

Williams titles are more in demand and thus have a higher value

Gottlieb titles are in less demand and thus have a lower value

**EDIT**

I just looked up on the IPDB every game made by Gottlieb/Premier from 1984 - 1996, not even one of those games is on my personal list of games I'd like to own.  Looking at the list I can't even see a single title where I think, yea that game was fun to play.  I personally have never found a Gottlieb/Premier game that is really all that fun to play.  

**EDIT2**

but if you go back further they have some better titles with things like Haunted House and Black Hole, both of those are fun games and command better prices then games of a similar era.  So like I said it's all about supply and demand.  

Play them and you will understand the difference. DMD games by Gottlieb are just not as fun as Williams/Bally. Gottlieb did make at least one really decent game. I'm thinking Stargate and if you look at the price of the game, it's on par with B title Williams games. I find most "cheap" DMD games are cheap due to the game play -- and Gottlieb has a bunch of cheap DMD games.

Cheers,
Duane

Quoted from Vengeance

I just looked up on the IPDB every game made by Gottlieb/Premier from 1984 - 1996, not even one of those games is on my personal list of games I'd like to own.  Looking at the list I can't even see a single title where I think, yea that game was fun to play.  I personally have never found a Gottlieb/Premier game that is really all that fun to play.  

Actually their pre-DMD games aren't that bad and there are a few gems games. I do find the quality less than Williams and wouldn't pay the same dollar as a Sys. 11, for example. But games like Tag Team, Silver Slugger, and Title Fight are pretty fun. Again, not as good as Williams games of the same era -- hence they sell for less.

Duane

Hmmm! I guess I will have to try some of the machines and experience it for myself.  Hard to do since not many are buying early 90's Gottlieb!!!  As for the comment made about early 80's Gottlieb I fully agree, HH is quite good and my Volcano is also quite nice to play, I like it a lot.

However, it is still puzzling me a bit.  I guess I will dig a little deeper.  After all, the goal here is to play pinball isn't it.

tks

Gottlieb was run on a much tighter budget than Williams. Their mechanicals, playfield designs and programming were simpler than Williams. The themes were not all that great either for the most part. BUT... simpler does not mean necessarily bad. Actually, there are still A LOT of Gottliebs out on route today. Their electronics were fantastic when it came to System3 DMD pins.

Alas, today demand is dictated by the collector market, not the operator market. And being simpler in design hurts the demand on that front. I know an operator who stated to me that 60% of his pins on route were DMD Gottliebs. Apparently people in locations such as campgrounds and such (therefore not catering to a collector crowd) still pump a lot of money in them. And being simpler in design = less costly to maintain.

Quoted from gmaranda

However, it is still puzzling me a bit.  I guess I will dig a little deeper.  After all, the goal here is to play pinball isn't it.
tks

What's puzzling?  It's simple economics, more people like Willams/Bally games, there is a limited supply of those games and as such the supply available does not equal the demand of the market.  As a result a higher value is placed on the machines

Gottlieb/Premier games are not as popular and not as highly sought after.  As a result the existing supply of machines is meeting the demand of the consumer so they hold a lower value.

It's no different then anything else that is bought or sold.  

Quoted from Vengeance

Simple...


but if you go back further they have some better titles with things like Haunted House and Black Hole, both of those are fun games and command better prices then games of a similar era.  So like I said it's all about supply and demand.  

I just had a chance to play spirit last night ... now that is a really nice Gottlieb of the same vintage of BH and HH.

Quoted from Vengeance

What's puzzling?  It's simple economics, more people like Willams/Bally games, there is a limited supply of those games and as such the supply available does not equal the demand of the market.  As a result a higher value is placed on the machines

Gottlieb/Premier games are not as popular and not as highly sought after.  As a result the existing supply of machines is meeting the demand of the consumer so they hold a lower value.

It's no different then anything else that is bought or sold.  

A bit passionate aren't we?  Just so that we undestand each other I know very very very well about offer and demand. I was stating puzzling because I want to make an opinion for myself.  As many others it is a matter of opinions and now that others have shared theirs I will simply dig a bit deeper and find out for myself.

Being still fairly new I like to ask others then see if my opinion matches theirs.  Simply stating offer and demands does not increase my level of knowledge in this hobby.  However, why some titles are more sought after is helping me.  Things such as reliability, ease of finding parts......tidbits of info.

tks

Quoted from gmaranda

A bit passionate aren't we?  Just so that we undestand each other I know very very very well about offer and demand. I was stating puzzling because I want to make an opinion for myself.  As many others it is a matter of opinions and now that others have shared theirs I will simply dig a bit deeper and find out for myself.

Being still fairly new I like to ask others then see if my opinion matches theirs.  Simply stating offer and demands does not increase my level of knowledge in this hobby.  However, why some titles are more sought after is helping me.  Things such as reliability, ease of finding parts......tidbits of info.

tks

Well yea, that's completely different, why games differ so much in value is an easy thing to figure out, what games you like is of course a personal thing and something you will have to figure out on your own.  

I personally don't enjoy the Premier/Gottlieb games as I find them very clunky and cheap feeling.  I find the rules very uninspired and the theme integration has never really been done very well.  I've also always found that whatever sound system the use is pretty chessy.  I'm not sure how hard or easy it is to find parts or repair them as I've never owned one.