As a Hunter It looks ok.
As a pinhead

Good grief!
I dont know where to start, so I wont. I was praying this title was going to vanish somehow because I had a hunch just how distasteful thing was gonna be. What a tacky pin. I predict failure of the multiball deer...the one strapped to the lumber...nice going there...and not only failure but breakage, there'll be antlers everywhere.
Not gonna get my buck...get it? Buck?!

Stan

wow, what a turd !

This should be in the vote for the badiest games and desiner deatmath pools.

Genesis may be ugly but it is at least a fun pin

Thanks but we could have been spared revisiting this horror.

http://archive.maaca.org/s107351202.onlinehome.us/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1262264365/s-all/

BBH and the "hair private" BG. I think it's about time Gary needs to hire some talent back in house.

http://archive.maaca.org/s107351202.onlinehome.us/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl?m-1262561475/

hopefully Iron Man will be better.... but it will still be John Borg so don't expect miracles

Stern is effin Silly!


The few Pinball enthusiasts that are left... are we clamouring for a BBH themed pin?!?!?

DId ANYBODY, EVER want a bbh pin?
  I guess it will look nice in a Bar in Sudbury, next to a BBH machine, both broken with out of order signs, but otherwise?

NBA was a bust for me, since i don't like b-ball and was less than impressed with the pin.  And all these movie tie in themes... I guess they are hoping for guaranteed tie in sales. but meh.

I would think much higher of Stern if they just switched to reproducing system 80 stuff.  they could buy Ni-wumpf boards and just thrown em together cheap.  I won't say pinball is dead, but it is on life support, and the orderlies are keeping an eye on Gary Stern when he walks by the plug....

I guess that Stern's marketing people (if there are any) possibly don't do their homework well. You need a theme that will appeal to as large a population as possible. And this is not a new concept.

For the longest time, Gottlieb made card-themed and later on billiards-themed pins. Why? Because EVERYONE played cards and billiards then. It was popular, and needed no licensing, thus cheap. Bally? Their best themes were non-licensed, or cheaper licenses when they were probably more affordable. Williams? For the longest time in their early SS era, everything they did was non-licensed sci-fi themed pins... and they sold great.

In fact, many popular pins were not licensed... even recent ones. Attack From Mars/Revenge from Mars is a fantastic non-licensed series. High Speed single-handedly jumpstarted the industry in the mid-80's.

Stern retains the mentality they got from Sega... EVERYTHING must be licensed. Very few licensed themes do well with time. LOTR is one that probably saved Stern in the short term...

Marvel Comics-based pins? Sure... bound to work sales wise because like Spiderman, people associate it more to the comics (durable theme) than a movie, even though everything on it graphics-wise is based on the movies. But they better release it with the IronMan 2 movie. But the cost of the license must be murder...

Quoted from axe

The few Pinball enthusiasts that are left... are we clamouring for a BBH themed pin?!?!?

I hate to tell you, Axe, but Stern can't build pins solely for enthusiasts.. they'd never make any money.  They build pins to attract people when they're at a bar, the same way the BBH and Golden Tee games do.  I understand why they did it, but perhaps a Golden Tee pin would've been a better move (and less offensive to some).

Gotta love the shotgun shells and whiskey bottles..    I'm sure it's a stinker of a pin, but rednecks will eat this up.. at least I hope so.  Stern could use the boost.

For a company that puts out a small number of titles per year, and needs to sell 2500 units per title to break even...

they have a limited market with this one.

You would think they might try to appeal to a wider audience.

Mind you, I heard the licensing cost bupkis on this one.

Sumbitch! Ah can't beelieve it! First came out Nascar, and now this!!! Holeee sheee-it! Now all's we need is a Dukes of Hazzard pinball machine.



THE SOUTH WILL RISE AGAIN!!!!

I had never played a Nascar 'till the last tourney, but I actually enjoyed it.  The theme did nothing for me, mind you.

Doesnt hold up to titles like LOTR or TSPP. Aside from playability, the ruleset isnt as deep.

Quoted from wbradley

Doesnt hold up to titles like LOTR or TSPP. Aside from playability, the ruleset isnt as deep.

Why are LOTR and TSPP always used to set the Stern standard? Aren't POTC, RBION, WPT, FG, SM, RCT, WOF etc. decent games? I just find it odd that LOTR and TSPP are the only Sterns that repeatedly get honourable mention. I must say anyone of these titles appear far more attractive than the last few offerings.

Quoted from machine.slave

I hate to tell you, Axe, but Stern can't build pins solely for enthusiasts.. they'd never make any money.

That's thier biggest error. The limited revenue a game will make on location these days has to be offset by collectors buying the game for decent money at the end of it's commercial cycle. Not accounting for this will be thier demise. The revenue isn't there anymore so they have to look at the whole cycle like a car lease and that lease is based on residual value of the machine. Your used machine market is the collectors.

Quoted Text

The revenue isn't there anymore so they have to look at the whole cycle like a car lease and that lease is based on residual value of the machine. Your used machine market is the collectors.

Glen, I believe you just hit the nail on the head.

[quote=191]

Why are LOTR and TSPP always used to set the Stern standard? Aren't POTC, RBION, WPT, FG, SM, RCT, WOF etc. decent games? I just find it odd that LOTR and TSPP are the only Sterns that repeatedly get honourable mention. I must say anyone of these titles appear far more attractive than the last few offerings.


I think that you have to add SM to your list ...

There’s more animal toy in this pinball that on a Fisher Price farm.
Love the cow…imagine the sound coming out of this junk.

I think TSPP and LOTR are the ones that get the biggest mention cause they are the big sellers.... and mostly because of their license tie ins...  Simpsons fans will buy a pinball if they are hardcore enough... even if they aren't pinball people. same with LOTR fans.

I understand that license tie ins are easy money, but only to a point.  As was said, routing a machine doesn't get much cash. Hell last time i was in Dave and busters, i'll bet that the crane/redemption machines made more in a half hour than every pinball machine in the place does in a day.  Bars i've been to with a pinball machine, they never seem to get touched... Golden tee at least gets people playing now and then, most of the pinballs sit lonely and forgotten.

I think we'll see a drop in the number of these people willing to buy a machine to route, then who is left?

Sure they always have a movie tie in pinball at Famous players... but they usually have ONE, not a bank of 6.  and it's usually not being played anyways.  I think complicated pinball machines are too much maintenance for arcades in malls and movie theaters, where they don't even have a person on site for change anymore, let alone maintenance.

They have pinball at Dave & Busters???  Geez I keep telling the kid no but that will change.

Quoted from axe

...  I think complicated pinball machines are too much maintenance for arcades in malls and movie theaters, where they don't even have a person on site for change anymore, let alone maintenance.

Hmm... operators don't care if a pin has lots of toys or not... in fact, they would rather see a simpler pin with less to maintain.

Could it be that collectors are just too damn difficult and we always want new toys?

I know... this is another discussion. But I just see new Galaga/Ms.Pac machines still raking in the cash today and cost a lot less to purchase and maintain than a newer simulator-type vid.  I gues that raises the P2K debate again... virtual toys instead of mechanical ones. Maintenance is much easier and the wow-factor is there.

If you ask me... pinball is not aging well, or should I say, just not evolving at all and getting real old real fast. And I don't see Dollarama-bought toy animals and antlers changing much for that.

Gary Stern needs a serious evolution, or someone else needs to step up to the plate. If someone comes out with a pin that is much easier to maintain, less expensive to build and to buy, and retains a good attractability factor for the clientele, Stern is dead. The market is ripe for the picking... too bad an idiot owns the Williams rights and a lawyer owns the Gottlieb rights.

What's wrong with lawyers?

Nothing, if you are one!

Quoted from Dr.Who

Love the cow…imagine the sound coming out of this junk.

The cow is in there for hunters who can't aim. It's stationary so you have lots of chances to hit it with the ball.

Squid. I did put SM in there.

Quoted from wbradley

Glen, I believe you just hit the nail on the head.

When Ops go to bail on this machine and are raked over the coals for price they won't be in a position to re-invest in the next Stern. Maybe that's when Gary will realize we count.

Quoted from necro_nemesis

When Ops go to bail on this machine and are raked over the coals for price they won't be in a position to re-invest in the next Stern. Maybe that's when Gary will realize we count.

Call me crazy but, stinker or not, I still think this pin will do better than most expect..

Only time will tell.  

Quoted from machine.slave

Call me crazy

Yep you are..

Mike

Pinball was advancing with the time, they named it pinball 2000 but Williams pulled the plug.  

The game has no flow! Do you think those dead end shots are going to be satisfying? The one orbit goes around the entire perimeter and would take about 15 minutes to make it's way around. The wide long ramp anouther 20 minutes. You want long ball times shoot those two shots.

Quoted from Sparky

I know... this is another discussion. But I just see new Galaga/Ms.Pac machines still raking in the cash today and cost a lot less to purchase and maintain than a newer simulator-type vid.

i think that nails it.

Early vids have a simple charm that is hard to resist.  You blast the aliens, you eat the pellets.  early pins were similarly simple. but as both got older, Vids got better adn better graphically, but not too much more complicated (Karate champ-Street FIghter- SFII-SFa-Tekken/Soul Calibur) though they did get a little more complicated.

Pinball couldn't get better "looking" it WAS reality!!! so it got more complicated.  to be honest, for the most part, i play pinball like an 8 year old.  I hit start, and try to bounce the ball around.  Complex rule sets aren't really big for me, and when i manage to get something like multiball it is usually a surprise instead of a plan.  but i think newer pins have gone too far with toys and complicated rule sets.  
For example Shrek.

Lat time Bigwig and i were at SB, we ducked out early and played a little pinball before we left. I really liked the shrek machine's theme... but all the toys and things pissed me off.  I didn't want to try to get the little playfied going, i didn't care about starting modes or anything.  I would put a shrek machine in my house if it was as simple as TMNT But as is? no way i am putting it in my house.  I found the same thing with LOTR. too busy.

I think if Stern (or Sparky!) put out a simple pin, with a cool theme that doesn't get too crazy, it would sell. Big buck hunter could have a 2 level playfield, withthe top half being a "hunting lodge" and you could fill it with dollarama toys.. but hey, what do i know.

Quoted from axe

I think if Stern (or Sparky!) put out a simple pin, with a cool theme that doesn't get too crazy, it would sell. Big buck hunter could have a 2 level playfield, withthe top half being a "hunting lodge" and you could fill it with dollarama toys.. but hey, what do i know.

I believe Breakshot was an attempt to do just that. It is a very attractive game, proven theme, that played like an older game. It's fun to flip around but not deep enough to hold onto IMHO. AFAIK it didn't do so well.

Quoted from necro_nemesis

The game has no flow! Do you think those dead end shots are going to be satisfying? The one orbit goes around the entire perimeter and would take about 15 minutes to make it's way around. The wide long ramp anouther 20 minutes. You want long ball times shoot those two shots.

Probably not satisfying to you or I, no, but to the bar crowd who normally plays the BBH video game I'm sure they'll enjoy it.  The layout is simple, the rules are probably just as simple.. I'd be willing to bet most new pins don't do well on route because they're confusing to the casual gamer.  They're trying to rope people in, not scare them away.. and a simple glimpse at Simpsons or LOTR would scare most away without even giving it a try.

Hey, I don't disagree that the pin will suck.. I'm just saying that the whole thing feels more like an experiment than just Gary Stern being his usual self, making poor decisions.

Truth be told, it could be a double-edged sword in that if successful it would inject some much needed cash into the industry, but at the same time would steer it in a different, more simplified direction* (no good for us enthusiasts!)

*kinda how the whole redemption phase started in the first place.. it doesn't get much easier than popping a quarter in and pressing a button

Quoted from axe

...I think if Stern (or Sparky!) put out a simple pin, with a cool theme that doesn't get too crazy, it would sell.

Don't tempt me. unfortunately, I don't own any right to anything and the patents that are in my name have very little to do with pinball.

... and I have no money. That doesn't help...

Hmmm, no patents worth a damn.... no money....  

You sound like Gary Stern!!!

I am hoping that the Lost Vegas project manages to scrape up some new pinball life.

Quoted from machine.slave

Probably not satisfying to you or I, no, but to the bar crowd who normally plays the BBH video game I'm sure they'll enjoy it.

Ok, so what is a hunter more likely to do; pick up a plastic gun and start shooting at things that look like rendered deer or try to get a steel ball in some way to simulate picking up a gun and shooting Bambi?

My bet is if you put BBH pin beside the video game the BBH vid wins out. Costs probably half is much to manufacture and does twice as well. Where's the business case to build this? You build pinball for people who like to play pinball.

...sorry guys but I had to do it.

are they really pins at dave and busters. The one at 400 and highway 7 right??

There was a bank of them when i was there a while back... but certainly not a lot....

and considering how crazy the redemption games were compared to everything else, I am sure there will be nothing but crane machines by now

Well I would give it a try......who knows I may enjoy it! But again I still enjoy playing with a "slinky"..........give me a fridge cardboard box and I will build you a castle  

All this to say the fun is a personal thing. At first glance I don't believe it is the best looking machine but if it were alone in a corner at the airport or a bar I would put a few $$ in.

Keep on playing bros that is all that matters.

Gilles

Quoted from necro_nemesis

Ok, so what is a hunter more likely to do; pick up a plastic gun and start shooting at things that look like rendered deer or try to get a steel ball in some way to simulate picking up a gun and shooting Bambi?

My bet is if you put BBH pin beside the video game the BBH vid wins out. Costs probably half is much to manufacture and does twice as well. Where's the business case to build this? You build pinball for people who like to play pinball.

Completely agree.   In better times, just reusing existing inventions for target-shooting like Hyperball or the ST:TNG guns would have been included.

Quoted from Tuborg

Completely agree.   In better times, just reusing existing inventions for target-shooting like Hyperball or the ST:TNG guns would have been included.

That would have been cool... instead of a Stewie pinball, make a mini playfield with a single ball that you shoot at 5 lit targets with a turret controlled by the flipper buttons. Easy enough. Heck... they could eliminate the whole trough system and install a rotating cannon in the drain hole and use that for a skill shot.

So many ideas...

No... I got it... let's put a cheap dollar-store deer figurine that goes across the playfield and gets pounded during a multiball.  

Quoted from Sparky

No... I got it... let's put a cheap dollar-store deer figurine that goes across the playfield and gets pounded during a multiball.  

Don't forget to raise your prices while you're at it.  

B!tch, B!tch, B!tch!

All your B!tches do is B!tch.  

Let's see what you have to b!tch about when there aren't any more new machines.

then you'll all most likely b!tch about how there aren't any new machines.  

That's what an internet forum is for Adam .  I'd like to give it a chance but I have to admit, there's not much to attract. I think this game will need to rely on a great deal of humour to be successful.