Everyone knows that if you picked a random DE game and a random Williams game from the 90s, odds are you'll probably prefer the Williams game. But there's no doubt that Data East produced a few hits that compete with the best WMS games. I've owned 4 DMD Williams games at some point (Shadow, TAF, WH20, and T2) and will hopefully be getting my second DE soon (first being GNR).

This got me thinking about what people thought was their favourite DE? I say favourite and not 'best' because as we all know it's purely subjective.

Currently, my favourite is GNR The playfield layout, the music, the multiball, they all just seem to 'click' for me. I also happen to really get a kick out of the captive ball. I love it when I lightly tap the captive ball and it bounces around for almost an entire minute!
The only thing I would change is to get rid of the 'multiball is ready' at ball 3. Multiball should be earned damn it!

JAY PEEE!!

Quoted from machine.slave

JAY PEEE!!

It might be my favourite soon too, we shall see!

I likw quite a few DE games just haven't had the oppertunityt o buy any of them.

But I would own:

GNR
Tommy
or TFTC

Being a Trek fan: ST25th

Gotta love the transporter effect. I love the original voices too.

GNR is my favourite. Great band, great music, and decent rules. Fun game.

JP was one of my kids favorite. They loved the pinball chomping Dinosaur.

Personally, I thought the MB lit at ball 3 was brilliant and should be used by Stern. It gives newbies, the majority of location pinball players, a fighting chance to start MB.

With JP, they took it one step further and I was really impressed with this feature: smart bomb? or something like that. Basically, you have one bomb and can use it once to get everything that is lite. This really introduces some interesting strategy to the game. Since you can only use it once, you don't want to waste it. Wizards will use it to max their points. Newbies can use it to get a guaranteed multiball since MB is lit on ball three.

This one feature made JP the absolute hit at every birthday party. Once shown how to start MB, the kids would line up to play it. In fact, I had several kids ask what button to press to start MB on other games !

Duane

TFTC.

I found TFTC really fun with a very good DMD animation,IF you like horror theme of course.
I think it's a good Fun to $$$ value,usually go for +/- half of GNR and like all DE of that era the modes are basly the just the same.
I think its a question of personal tast,since you play one DE youv've played em all!!  

back to the future?

i would love GnR if i owned one

G'nR 1st then TFTC 2nd.

Here is my list
1)GNR Love the music and the playfield is layed out perfect i find
2)JP I owned 2 of these games and I miss it but to easy for me but I still love it.
3) Tommy or RABW Hard Tie between them I love both games about the same.
4)Laser Wars Dam it's fast and simple and fun.
5)Robocop sentimental first pin.

I wouldn't mind a Tommy Proto...

D

Quoted from TwilightZone

..
Personally, I thought the MB lit at ball 3 was brilliant and should be used by Stern. It gives newbies, the majority of location pinball players, a fighting chance to start MB.

With JP, they took it one step further and I was really impressed with this feature: smart bomb? or something like that. Basically, you have one bomb and can use it once to get everything that is lite. This really introduces some interesting strategy to the game. Since you can only use it once, you don't want to waste it. Wizards will use it to max their points. Newbies can use it to get a guaranteed multiball since MB is lit on ball three.

...

That smart missile is pretty neat. I wonder why they never brought it back. So far I've just been playing JP in vpinball, and I've been using the smart missile to either start CHAOS multiball (hit smart missile after getting a jackpot in M-ball), or if I'm having a crappy game, hit it just before the ball drains on ball 3, which will start multiball and save my sorry a**.

I enjoyed Rocky and Bullwinkle a lot but the 'wizard' is kinda anticlimactic. Star Wars was always worth a few quarters.

Jurassic Park IS the BEST ... EST.

"Go, go ,go, go, go, go, gooo!"

With the exception of T2, TAF, and TZ, it also seemed to me that DE got the best licenses. Apparently WMS stood up Slash on the chance to do GNR.

DE did Star Wars and Jurassic Park. Both arguably the biggest licenses of the decade. (Jurassic Park sat at the top of the all-time box office until Titanic came along)
Then there were others like Robocop, Back to the Future, Batman, TMNT, Star Trek, WWF, and The Simpsons that were all really strong licenses at the time (and still today). What did WMS have? Congo! Demolition Man! Puhleaze! No doubt WMS games were great, and their original themes were awesome, but if you're gonna pay for a license, buy a good one!

Quoted from jonny_eh

With the exception of T2, TAF, and TZ, it also seemed to me that DE got the best licenses. Apparently WMS stood up Slash on the chance to do GNR.

DE did Star Wars and Jurassic Park. Both arguably the biggest licenses of the decade. (Jurassic Park sat at the top of the all-time box office until Titanic came along)
Then there were others like Robocop, Back to the Future, Batman, TMNT, Star Trek, WWF, and The Simpsons that were all really strong licenses at the time (and still today). What did WMS have? Congo! Demolition Man! Puhleaze! No doubt WMS games were great, and their original themes were awesome, but if you're gonna pay for a license, buy a good one!

I agree... but the only problem I have with DE is that once they became Sega, they became obsessed with licenced themes, and they generally were lackluster. Although respectable, Apollo 13, Independece Day, Twister and Last Action Hero can hardly match the licences you mentioned. A bit like today. Stern's licence choices, other than Indiana jones, are just OK. Nothing fantastic...

Quoted from Sparky

I agree... but the only problem I have with DE is that once they became Sega, they became obsessed with licenced themes, and they generally were lackluster. Although respectable, Apollo 13, Independece Day, Twister and Last Action Hero can hardly match the licences you mentioned. A bit like today. Stern's licence choices, other than Indiana jones, are just OK. Nothing fantastic...

Other then IJ?

Errrr....

Lord of the Rings?
Simpsons?
Batman?
SpiderMan?
Family Guy?

All those licenses I personally think are WAY better (besides Family Guy) then IJ.  I'm not talking gameplay either, I'm talking just the license.

Quoted from Vengeance

Other then IJ?

Errrr....

Lord of the Rings?
Simpsons?
Batman?
SpiderMan?
Family Guy?

All those licenses I personally think are WAY better (besides Family Guy) then IJ.  I'm not talking gameplay either, I'm talking just the license.

Family Guy... long past it's prime, was even cancelled once.
Shrek... forgettable. FG re-hash anyways.
Wheel of fortune... 30 years old
CSI... 10th season. Yawn.
Sopranos... long past it's prime
24... again, long past it's prime... 9th season
World Poker Tour... not the best
Batman... DARK KNIGHT... movie based... not really comic based. A bit forgettable pin-wise.
POTC... done too late. Should have been done at the first movie.

And then... good themes, bad pins:

Harley... enough already...
Nascar... boring

Granted, Spiderman, LOTR, and TSPP were well done. Heck, even Elvis. But they are a minority.

I like my Maverick... but I had to play  other DE to tell if it's really my favourite.. DE had very interesting license. the reason I like the DE pinball, you can find great cool looking pin for a good price...  maybe not the greatest gameplay, but I'm not the greatest player neither so we do well together

It seems only the past year and a bit Stern has gone a little soft on licenses. WoF, CSI, 24, lame! LOTR, TSPP, BDK, S-M, and FG are all great licenses. The only good license Sega got was South Park. It's still pulling in the bucks on route! Drives me crazy thinking of why Sega never bothered to make a Sonic themed pinball machine. Especially considering there was a Sonic Spinball video game already that was a relatively successful.

Quoted from Sparky

Family Guy... long past it's prime, was even cancelled once.

...

Batman... DARK KNIGHT... movie based... not really comic based. A bit forgettable pin-wise.
POTC... done too late. Should have been done at the first movie.

...

FG was cancelled because the Fox execs were morons. It became so popular during reruns and DVD sales, they were practically forced to resurrect it, and it get great ratings now. Star Trek was also cancelled, but don't tell me that it's a weak theme. FG was by far the most popular pin at the PHoF when I was there a few weeks ago.

The Dark Knight was the most popular movie last year, won an oscar, and was very close to breaking all time box office records. I consider it a very strong theme, but terribly wasted (unfinished software, sound unalike actors, toys that had nothing to do with the movie)

PoTC didn't become a super popular cultural phenomenon until the 2nd and 3rd movie came out. Each one doing better than the previous. I think Stern had great timing with it! It was won of their best selling pins too, so that says a lot.

But in terms of getting good licenses, you can't beat DE in the late 80s early 90s.

Other than Laser War and Time Machine, what other unlicensed DE games were there?  They pretty much did nothing but after that point, no?

Frankly, Sega missed the boat with a Sonic the Hedgehog pinball machine.. like, HELLO MR. OBVIOUS?

Quoted from jonny_eh

DE did Star Wars and Jurassic Park. Both arguably the biggest licenses of the decade. (Jurassic Park sat at the top of the all-time box office until Titanic came along)
Then there were others like Robocop, Back to the Future, Batman, TMNT, Star Trek, WWF, and The Simpsons that were all really strong licenses at the time (and still today). What did WMS have? Congo! Demolition Man! Puhleaze! No doubt WMS games were great, and their original themes were awesome, but if you're gonna pay for a license, buy a good one!

You forgot the WMS games: IJ, SWEP1 (its still Star Wars), CFTBL, MB, Dr Who, Shadow....

Of course DE also licensed Playboy , LW3, Hook (good game though), ABC Football, WWF, Baywatch and POTO (a musical!).

I really don't care, but figured I would point out that both had their share of winners and losers.

Quoted from machine.slave

Other than Laser War and Time Machine, what other unlicensed DE games were there?  They pretty much did nothing but after that point, no?

Frankly, Sega missed the boat with a Sonic the Hedgehog pinball machine.. like, HELLO MR. OBVIOUS?

Torpedo Alley
Secret Service
Time Machine

Quoted from Monkeybug

You forgot the WMS games: IJ, SWEP1 (its still Star Wars), CFTBL, MB, Dr Who, Shadow....

Of course DE also licensed Playboy , LW3, Hook (good game though), ABC Football, WWF, Baywatch and POTO (a musical!).

I really don't care, but figured I would point out that both had their share of winners and losers.

True, IJ and SWE1 were strong themes (despite SWE1 movie sucking balls), but CFTBL, MB, Dr Who, and Shadow are all weak themes. Dr Who would be considered only strong in the UK. I wouldn't even consider MB to be truly licensed theme. I know they payed Universal, but they didn't have to. Dracula, Frankenstein, werewolves and mummies are all public domain, they just paid a little for their movie likenesses.

Of the crummy DE themes you listed, I would argue that the WWF license was quite strong. Nowadays it's not so popular, but back in the 80s and 90s it was huge! Nowadays people seem to only care about UFC. Maybe Stern should do that!

Laser War fan (because I can).  

Quoted from Monkeybug

Torpedo Alley
Secret Service
Time Machine

Checkpoint

rocky and bullwinkle is in my collection and its a blast.
  fastest machine i still have ever owned or play was Laser war.  that is a excellent machine.
     hook wasn't that bad and i owned it for awhile.
       did enjoy royal rumble but didn't have it fully working to know the whole game feel.
         tftc was fun and a great machine.  loads going on.
          jp was great also.

With all this DE love on this thread, it is to bad they made such poor quality games. They might be a little more collectable.

Low quality in what respect?  Maintenance wise, they're like any WMS pin.  The only criticism I have about DE pins is the sucky playfield art.  In listening to Joe Kaminkow (cofounder of DE), he mentioned a tiny bit about the playfield art and what they had to do to survive as a business.  Made sense.  

Quoted from HP5P

With all this DE love on this thread, it is to bad they made such poor quality games. They might be a little more collectable.

you got to admit it ,most of their PF look like they were drawn up by 12 year old kids with Crayola crayons!!

Hmm... low quality? ... I don't know...

The term I would use is "different". Anyone who plays a DE notes first off that the flippers feel clunky compared to a Williams. But then again, I feel that williams flippers, unless in perfect condition, became weak quickly.

And let's look at electronics... basically, System 11. Solid systems. In fact, until they became Sega/Stern, I even found that DE pins had BETTER DMD animation than Williams. Sound? They started stereo sound in pins. Any complaints on GnR on this point?

I believe that DE falls in the same category as classic Stern pins. Often too easily overlooked, and often underappreciated.

This being said... anyone ever play Torpedo Alley? I found one cheap...

Quoted from Sparky

I believe that DE falls in the same category as classic Stern pins. Often too easily overlooked, and often underappreciated.

Nothing wrong with that.. keeps the prices low.  

Quoted from pinsRfun

Low quality in what respect?  Maintenance wise, they're like any WMS pin.  The only criticism I have about DE pins is the sucky playfield art.  

if you ever strip a DE playfield/game, there is a world of difference in the build quality.. i fully understood the corporate mentality that they did what they had to in order to stay afloat. afterall a pin was only supposed to have a 2 year life span (even less) but a little too flimsy for my tastes...

I concur that playing a DE feels 'different' than a WMS. Does that mean lower quality? I suppose in some areas maybe, but I think in most cases it's just a matter of what you're used to.

I agree that some DE artwork is hideous (see Playboy translite), some is decent, and some is quite awesome (GNR translite and cabinet rocks, IMO). WMS has some really crappy art too, ahem, High Speed.

I also really like the TMNT backglass. It's like a really seedy version of TMNT that doesn't match the TV show, movie, or even the playfield. I love it!

Quoted from HP5P

With all this DE love on this thread, it is to bad they made such poor quality games. They might be a little more collectable.

Spoken like a true Williams snob.  

I like Back to the Future. And, as much as I hate to admit it, I think LW3 is quite a fun game, although the "OK, OK, OK" gets annoying really quickly. I found the original DE Star Wars to be a dreadful disappointment, in spite of the winning theme and the cool toys on the playfield.

And not to contradict what Duane said, but I always thought it was really silly how DE gave away the multi-ball on ball 3 on many of their games. It's like they don't have any faith in the player's ability to actually work towards an objective. If pinball is supposed to pull quarters from people's pockets, why would they ensure that there's nothing new for the player to see or work towards after the first game?

I've played G'n'R a bunch of times and, I gotta say, I don't see the appeal. It's a good theme but the gameplay does zero for me. Perhaps I just need to spend some more time with it. Tommy is the same... good theme but gameplay... ??? Maybe I just don't get it.

The only thing I have to add to this thread would be the cost of replacement DE parts.  If anyone has EVER worked on a DE and replaced even the simplest of flipper parts you'll know what I'm taking about.  I'm sure this issue crosses over to other mechanical DE parts as well.

For a specific reference, the spring bracket on a flipper pawl is a simple and common part.  The WMS version of this part is cheap, like under $1 cheap.  The "same" part for a DE flipper cost me over $8!  You heard me right.  I even called the supplier thinking the price they had listed on-line was a typo, but it wasn't.  This is a wear and tear part, especially on DE games due to the design / material. (I've yet to see a WMS version of this part to wear through like the DE part does)

So, even though the games may be cheaper to purchase over a Bally / WMS game, don't be fooled because at some point you'll have to replace parts on it and you'll be paying a lot more for those parts.

D

I end up having to do a heck of alot more work on my Williams games and my Data East games are rock solid. Heck, even the MNF I just picked up in what was described as dead condition...I got that working in a matter of hours. Why? Because of all the experience from working on my Williams machines! Certainly not from working on the DE games, theres not much to do...because they work.

As far as DE replacement parts...I replace whatever I can with the Williams parts I have here. Its all pretty much the same stuff. And the boards are like system 11 boards...easy as pie to suss out and work on.

I just dont get the knock on DE games in that regard. And this is coming from a Williams system 11 fan!

Stan


btw... Love Tommy, GnR, Robocop, and this MNF is surprisingly addictive and fun.

Gn'R has a lot going on. Magnets, multiball modes, add a ball mode, and quite of few tracks from Appetite for Destruction, arguably there best album, to unlock. The biggest aspect of this pin is the music as it is the original music by the original artists at the height of the bands career and it's integrated into the game. I can't think of a single other game that has all this off the top of my head with all the modes.

As Doug said though parts supply just plain sucks.

Just to argue....

Quoted from jonny_eh

I know they payed Universal, but they didn't have to. Dracula, Frankenstein, werewolves and mummies are all public domain, they just paid a little for their movie likenesses.

Of course.  Thats where brand recognition comes in to play.  Compare Monster Bash to Sega Frankenstein.  Which one is more recognizable and will stand the test of time?

Quoted from jonny_eh

Of the crummy DE themes you listed, I would argue that the WWF license was quite strong. Nowadays it's not so popular, but back in the 80s and 90s it was huge! Nowadays people seem to only care about UFC. Maybe Stern should do that!

WWF was strong.  It just dates the machine.  DE has a similar problem that Stern has now...too many licenses that get dated easily.  I guess Bally/Stern had the same issue in the late 70's/early 80's.  Maybe they do it on purpose to build obsolescence by theme?  Imagine how dated a machine would look, 1 year after the movie was released on video?   Many of the WMS games were non licensed so they would fit into an arcade for a much longer period of time (FT, TOM, FH, NGG, RFM, TOTAN, HS2, Wh20.....).  I think it was said in the Tilt movie that WMS were victims of their own success.  Games built in 1992 didn't look out of place 10 years later.

I prefer WMS but I think DE are great machines and are extremely affordable.