MAME / Arcade Questions
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TGlover
October 3, 2009, 8:19am Report to Moderator
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I know very little about Video Arcade Machines or MAME but I want to attempt to build one from an old computer I have.  The computer is a P4 Celeron, 2.4 Ghz, 640mg Ram (+/-).  I have a standard TV with S-Video connection.

1) How large a Hard Drive would you suggest I should have?  I currently have a 40 gig HD.

2) I want to have a 27" monitor.  I was told by a friend that I could use my existing Standard TV with a (conversion) card that changes the signal to cga/vga (by the way, what format are standard CRT TV's in?). Can I use a standard TV this simply?  

3) Would it just be easier to use a standard computer monitor? that I assume would be plug and play from my computer?

4) I understand that I could lose authentic picture quality (i.e. over res.) if I use a newer Computer monitor.  I want it to be as authentic looking as possible.

5) and lastly, I also want to add an optical gun to my Mame.  Will any of the above monitors work with this, and where would I buy Gun attachment?

Thank you for any advice to can offer.
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The Loafer
October 3, 2009, 4:36pm Report to Moderator

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1 - That depends on what games you want to run? Seeing your motherboard/CPU combo, you can rule out any of the 3d games and probably most of the hard drive image games. I think a full mame set minus the chd games (the hard drive games) is under 20 gig, so if that's all you will run, 40 gig is probably plenty.

2 - Not sure if I fully understand your question. It all depends on how "authentic" you are shooting for:
A) if you use a TV, then you might be underscanning, because a TV cannot properly do the low resolutions of the older arcade game
B) if you use a PC monitor, then yeah, many/most older games will look too sharp.

If I understand correctly, the only way you can have the games looking at the correct/perfect resolution/ratio, is if you use an arcade VGA along with an arcade monitor.  I've no experience with this, but that's what I understand.

3 - yes and IMHO, I don't really care if a game looks a little sharper myself (see commentary at the bottom)

4 - see #2

5 - There are lots of options, many depend on the monitor you are using. There is only one option that works for all and it is not a perfect one (at least, not yet) and those are the guns that use an LED bar(s) that sites around the TV/monitor.  I own the LCD Topguns (necessary as I have an LCD monitor and only LED guns work with those) and the guy I bought them from had a heck of a time using them, so do a lot of people. Because of the LED's, which are sensitive to heat, many have problems calibrating them, probably due to a local heat source/vent that's fooling the gun.  Myself, I've found it works adequately but the biggest pain in the butt with them is you have to stand 6" away for a 19" monitor (larger the screen, greater the distance).

Ultimarc (them again ), have just released the innards of a new type of LED gun that works a lot better, but as it's only been released a month ago, there's seems to be a few issues that need to be ironed out. Also right now, there is no gun shell available.  What's so good about these guns? You can stand 2" away from the monitor, pretty impressive.

http://www.ultimarc.com/aimtrak.php

Their tech seems very impressive and it allows an upgrade path to just about anything. For that reason, I'd recommend you wait on the gun and keep an eye out to see if their software matures along with their hardware, also research other guns as well.

There are other guns that you can use, depending on if you're using an arcade monitor but I have no experience/info on them.

Commentary on the video / look of the old games:
Keep in mind you are:
- running these games through emulation and thus...
- there are emulation bugs, both visual and audio
- you are probably playing game x with a non-standard controller
- button layout might be a bit different than the original

I've read many a thread on arcadecontrols.com where some people are, imho, maybe expecting too much as far as accuracy and it's become a borderline obsession. The onky way you are guaranteed 100% authenticity is if you play the dedicated version of your favourite game.  The moment one jumps into "mame" or other emulation, I suspect we get more fun if we lower our expectations a bit.  Nothing wrong if you want to get as close as possible, just don't forget the reality of emulation.

/rant off
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CheffoJeffo
October 4, 2009, 8:56pm Report to Moderator

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I pretty much agree with what The Loafer says, *although* with the introduction of LD games into the recent builds of MAME and your desire to support gun games, I might want a bigger HD (It would be nice to see some ALG games in MAME and the CHD files for LD games are *BIG*). Then again, since we don't know what the CPU requirements for some of those games will be, you may need to upgrade more than that anyway, so it would be a wait-and-see.

I was happy to see Andy release the Aimtrak, particularly at the price point that he has attained, but am still holding out hope for Nanotech's OptiGun (it is ever becomes available again and at a price that I can afford to try out). I'm going to let the dust settle a bit before I make a choice for a MAME-based gun cab.

As far as video goes, the easiest thing to do (other than using a standard computer monitor) is just go with a 27" TV and a video card that provides a decent component video out. There are a ton of other options, most of which are detailed in the BYOAC wiki:

http://wiki.arcadecontrols.com/wiki/Video

There are MAME builds that allow you to make changes to the video so that a computer monitor produces results that look more like an arcade monitor. It's not the same and I can tell the difference, but most people can't and it may be close enough to make you happy. Don't get caught up in the authenticity trap -- if you are happy with how it looks, then be happy with how it looks (I have a feeling that I was a participant in some of the BYOAC threads that The Loafer refers to).

Be warned that some lightgun solutions (namely the ones that don't rely on sensor bars, like the Nanotech or ActLabs solutions) aren't compatible with all of the monitor options. Don't make a decision on lightguns without understanding the relationship vis-a-vis the monitor. Also know that some lightgun solutions don't work well with particular combinations of OS and MAME (in particular, some combinations don't allow two simultaneous guns).





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TGlover
October 4, 2009, 10:21pm Report to Moderator
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THank you both for your assistance.  I just got my Cab today, I am downloading roms running on MAME32, and I am picking up a "FREE" 27" TV CRT tomorrow.  

Question:  I have seen MAME opening screens give a joystick seletion of games rather then Keyboard.  I have also see ones with custom art behind (like a recent TRON MAME on ebay from the US.)  It had a picture of TRON in the background and a listing of games you picked from a joystick/fire button.  Can Mame 32 be set up to select games via joystick, and can this be down right at startup, so I don't need to ever touch the keyboard when I power-on or select different games?

Thanks
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The Loafer
October 5, 2009, 12:23am Report to Moderator

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CheffoJeffo: Forgot about the LD games, you're 100% right.

In saying that hard drives are cheap. Even if you don't need the HD space now, you might later. For example, I mentioned the dreamcast emulation, some of those games are around 1 gig in size so more space wouldn't be bad.  if you just want to run the old classics for now, then you'll be ok HD wise but sooner or later...

Onto your question, sounds like you're discribing different front ends than Mame32/UI (which is Mame with a built in front end).  There are many good ones.  AFAIK, it doesn't matter, most front ends and I think MameUI can handle navigation/input either by joystick or keyboard (arrow keys).  If you're using the IPAC as a keyboard encoder, that's basically what you're doing: mapping your keyboard to buttons/joystick positions so you don't need to use a keyboard.

Speaking of encoders, some keyboard encoders like the IPAC also allow you to use shift keys for all the mappings by holding one button down so ALL other buttons can have a secondary use. For example, you could have the player 1 button 1 also act as one of Mame's admin buttons or other important keys (such as "P" for "pause", hardly arcade authentic but important when needing to use the loo ).  Anyway, this is pretty useful if you don't want to have 32 buttons on your control panel and needs to be considered for your CP now, before you get too far ahead.

For joystick control, you have the option to use the IPAC or you can go for joysticks that are seen as "joysticks" in windows like the U360. I have these and they are GREAT multi-purpose controllers, can act as analog, as 4 way, 8 way or even a rotated 4-way for Qbert.  But remember what you've heard in this thread, if you go down the "multi-purpose" road, make allowance and accept that it won't be 100% perfect.  Playing Pacman with an 8 way or the U360 is very playable for some, but it's certainly not the same, though it's good enough for me.

If I understand correctly that you're in the design phase, it's very important to get everything planned out first before you buy anything.  Otherwise, you'll likely be "upgrading" your CP/cab a couple of times (nothing wrong with that, I'm in the planning stages for an upgrade myself ).
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Mobstar
December 18, 2009, 2:44pm Report to Moderator

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Hey!
I've got a similar setup that you're about to have.

40Gigs won't be enough if you plan on installing all the CHDs and laser disk games.
I have an 80Gig and it's pretty tight. "although I do have all the other emulators and roms installed "NES/SNES/SEGA/TG16...

All you need is a good video card with VGA out. Using a monitor is the easiest but using a TV has a more retro feel. I bought a cheap Insignia TV from futureshop and ripped it apart to hardwire the power button and to hook it up to external speakers.
There's a lot of freebie front ends you can use out there to select your games with a joystick.
I used an IPAC controller for my joysticks along with the IPAC analog for my trackball. Originally I used a Keyboard controller however it was a pain to decode/configure.

If you do this well, you will be the envy of all your buddies. I built 3 cabinets so far and everyone that plays on them wants me to build them one.

Enjoy and Good luck!
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Tuborg
December 18, 2009, 8:16pm Report to Moderator

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Hey Terry, the guy that was selling the PC parts for NuCore can still get parts.   $280USD (shipped to Canada) for a motherboard, CPU, 4GB RAM and a 500GB disk.   You'd have to build that into your old PC-case.  Or just buy a basic $500 system @ FutureShop.   I think you'd like the performance gain and the games it would open up in MAME.   I'm not a MAME expert by any means, but I think some of those front-ends look like they would run smoother with more horsepower.

(Although I sent payment 3 weeks ago and still waiting for the parts...)
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Francis
December 22, 2009, 8:21am Report to Moderator

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1) How large a Hard Drive would you suggest I should have?  I currently have a 40 gig HD.

40 gigs is ok if you clean up some CHD. There is several clone of CHD that you can easily clean. And also remove the game CHD that  you won't play anyway.

2) I want to have a 27" monitor.  I was told by a friend that I could use my existing Standard TV with a (conversion) card that changes the signal to cga/vga (by the way, what format are standard CRT TV's in?). Can I use a standard TV this simply?  

You can use a standart TV with a computer and a S-video exit. But the Standart Tv as a really bad resolution and color quality. But its better if you want to install a light guns.

3) Would it just be easier to use a standard computer monitor? that I assume would be plug and play from my computer?  From my experience, better to have a computer 21 inches than a Tv 27 inches.  When I begin built arcade machine, I begin with 27" Tv, then I built one with a 21" computer monitor. Everybody that see the 2 machine side by side prefer the 21 " monitor. But the best I have seen is a reall arcade monitor. But you need a ultimarc video card, and the monitor are quite expensive (300$ at least + 200$ of shipping + 100$ of Ups of unjustify charges)


4) I understand that I could lose authentic picture quality (i.e. over res.) if I use a newer Computer monitor.  I want it to be as authentic looking as possible.
The Tv is less authentic than a arcade monitor


5) and lastly, I also want to add an optical gun to my Mame.  Will any of the above monitors work with this, and where would I buy Gun attachment?

The best thing to do is to have a playstation guncon2 and plug it into a tv. There is 2 driver on the net that you  can download,  the wingun and another one. the best is the wingun. I know that you can adapt the guncon with arcade monitor or a computer monitor, but I dont know how.
Don't buy an act-lab gun, because they flash every time you fire, and your head is gonna explode after 2 minutes of playing.  (guncon2 dont do that)
It is important to put the image as clear as possible with light guns.
you can make several computer  gun games work ok
house of the dead 1-2-3 and virtual cops 1-2 are ok
You must also know that several light guns game dont play well
Operation wolf 1 = ok
Operation wolf 2 = dont fire at the righ place
Terminator 2 = dont fire at the right place
area 51 is ok
aliens = dont work
jurrasic park dont play well
most of the little (boring ) light guns game are ok
steel gunners 1-2 =  doesnt work


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