Hi, guys.

I've just base coated one of my machine cabinets ( the splatter job is excellent I might add - ha, ha ), and I have a stencil set from Pinball Pal for it, and I'm ready to go. The last time I did one of these re-paints it didn't go so good. The adhesive on the stencil pulled some base coat paint off the refinished cabinet when I removed it. Any ideas or tips how to keep this from happening?

I was considering waxing the entire outside of the cabinet, applying the stencils, then removing the wax in the "to be painted" areas with Isopropal Alchohol. Does this sound like it would work, or does somebody have a better idea?
I've also thought about using a clear coat between colours, trying to seal the base coat, keep the possible flaking sealed somewhat. Let me know what you guys think.

Thanks in advance,
Dan

I'm assuming you're using oil paint of course, how long did you let it dry Dan?  I'd give it a week to "cure" and pick a dry day to do it. you're in luck, since it's dry season.

Also, peeling the stencil 180 degrees away from the cab will reduce your chances of that dreaded "lifting" greatly.  (instead of pulling the paper off at a 90 degree angle)

Does that make sense?

Craig

Yes, the instructions with the stencils mention to peel back at 180 degrees ( or as close as possible ) so that does make sense to me. I'm not sure if the spray paint that I used was oil based. I used Krylon spray as recommended by Clay's site. I don't remember it being advertised as oil... is that a bad thing? I did use wood filler, for nicks and such, sanded it smooth where required and used primer coat to conceal the original designs before I finished it.

Anyway, the paint should be pretty dry, I think it was completed last Saturday. I will make sure it is totally dry before I continue the job. I'm probably going to do the first stencil colour on Sunday so that'll have been about a week or so.

Thanks for the tip, Craig.

Dan

I may post some pictures if all works out.

Did you strip the old paint off the entire cabinet first Dan? ... I mean with paint stripper, or sanded bare?

I have done a few re-stencils before, and about the only way the base paint won't lift, is if it's applied directly to the wood. It's not usually the paint that you put down first that lifts, it's usually the old paint underneath that let's go & takes the new paint with it.

Also .. be carefull if you used spray cans for the base coat. Areosols act very strangely with one another.
I have botched the odd repaint by using them. I stick solely now to non-spray cans ... ie: canned paint with a paint gun. No more problems with chemical reactions. If you intend to use areosols, wait at least two weeks before laying down a new color on top. This will give the base time to bleed off all the propellants.
It will actually tell you this on the side of the can. "Re-coat within xx mins, -OR- after xx days"
If you don't, you get a real ugly bubbling affect..... especially if you mix brands of spray.
Try to stay away from spray cans if at all possible, IMHO.

Awesome Dan, well I'm afraid I couldn't offer much news, looks like you already took every precaution possible.

Sometimes you can just get unlucky too, sometimes I've painted a cab and 100 percent stuck well, and cured properly, other times, with the EXACT same type of wood, paint,primer and even rollers+sprayers
, it's sunk to 90%, with a few patches of abberation....

Nature's law I guess, not mine

Hope to see pictures of the before+after

Craig

Thanks for the info guys.

No, I did not strip the cabinet to bare wood. It sounds like maybe I should have...

I sanded down the original paint a bit, to get the imperfections out with wood filler and such, and to give a good base to paint over. I think I'm probably too late for stripping it now. I'm about five cans of spray into it - plus the labour spent. I'm not too worried about the paints reacting with each other, as they are the same brand, and I've used them together before for touch ups.

I'll experiment with some techniques using the stencils and let you guys know how it worked out. I'm thinking of making some cardboard versions of the stencils as a back-up plan just in case things go very wrong and I have to start over. If I do have to start over, I'm definately going to strip the whole thing, absolutely.

Thanks,

Dan

Another thing you can try, if your worried about the stencils pulling the base paint, (and likely ruining some expensive stencils!) ... put a few small strips of that green painter's masking tape down on the cabinet, in places that will get eventually covered-over by stencil color paints, leave them an hour or so, then take them off.
If they lift the base paint, it's not worth wrecking your stencils over.
That green painter's masking tape (from Home Depot and others) has around the same sticky-ness to it that most stencil adhesives do.

Good idea!

I was thinking of trying the front of the cabinet first, as that stencil area seems to be the easiest to cover up a mistake, it's a pretty busy area with not much of the base coat showing through.

Another idea I had was to make the stencil adhesive less tacky. I was thinking to stick it to a comforter or blanket first, it would take up some fuzz, making it less sticky. I used this technique once on a cabinet head. It did work quite well.

Tommy, you're right about me not wanting to wreck an expensive stencil set, at about $120 each - you just don't want to screw it up!

I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Dan

If it's for an older EM machine, clean stencil edges may be too clean, some of that under splatter was present on all of the original EM paint jobs.  Basically they put a stencil on and sprayed vertically on to the surface, so some splatter always seemed to go under the stencil.  Gives it a soft edge effect.  Your mileage may vary. The resist idea may work too.

UPDATE

I have done the first color stencils. All turned out great! I used the blanket lint method. It worked VERY well. No paint lifted at all. It did make it hard to remove the backing though.

Quoted from Bally Boy

I have done the first color stencils. All turned out great!

Good show! Keep it up.

Would like to see some before after pics when done


not to hijack but,

Does anyone have some recommendations for the materials needed to create your own stencils.

I've made my own adhesive stencils before, it's difficult depending on the game, but it can be done.

I actually used regular self adhesive shelf paper from Zellers, Home Depot, some place like that. It comes in rolls and is very easy to work with, basically cut and stick.
The only real problem that I saw with using it is you don't have a clear backing piece to keep the stencil all together when you're applying it. If you're artistic at all, read ARTISTIC, then you might be able to pull it off pretty sucessfully. I don't recommend doing a complicated three colour job with it, like say Capt. Fantastic, but it should be fine for repair work or simple cabinet designs. If you use white shelf paper - you can actually trace the original outline of the pattern right on the paper you are going to use for the stencil.

I got the idea from my years of making my own die-cut decals for my bicycle.

Dan

Thanks for the tip .. I'll buy a roll and test on some scrap first.

I'm going to attempt a pinbot in coming months, but still need to prep the cab.  I will post in a separate thread once the work starts.

thanks

Quoted from Meat Popsicle

Thanks for the tip .. I'll buy a roll and test on some scrap first.

I'm going to attempt a pinbot in coming months, but still need to prep the cab.  I will post in a separate thread once the work starts.

thanks

I will be doing my Nitro Ground Shaker machine soon.Thanks for the tips.I will also try to post some pics in another thread

Quoted from Meat Popsicle

Would like to see some before after pics when done


not to hijack but,

Does anyone have some recommendations for the materials needed to create your own stencils.

Check how I made some here: http://www.mikesgamesroom.com/Pinball/lwshop.htm

Good luck!

Mike

My cabinet job is finished ( just in time for winter playfield work ). I wanted to thank those of you who helped me out. ToMMy definately had some good ideas ( especially about the paint reacting with each other and stuff ). I actually put the machine back together last weekend and I think it looks pretty good, except for the playfield, but that's the next job. I have a playfield overlay, but I'm going to try and retouch the original first, just to see if I can save it and I may do a clearcoat job after it's done to protect the work. We'll see where that goes.

I'd like to post some pictures of my work so far, my camera took high resolution photos through the stages of restoration and I loaded them on my computer, but when I tried to post them on this thread the files are too large. I'm not that great with computer stuff - is there anyway to reduce the sizes of these things? I tried to stretch and skew in paint, it makes the picture view smaller, but the size still too large ( the file size seems the same ). Any ideas?

Thanks,

Dan

Quoted from Bally Boy

is there anyway to reduce the sizes of these things? I tried to stretch and skew in paint, it makes the picture view smaller, but the size still too large ( the file size seems the same ). Any ideas?

Photoshop, Microsoft Picture-It, probably some freeware's around the net too. Somebody here once mentioned a site or two you can load them to & download them back reduced also.

I'm still waiting patiently to see what Bally title it is you're pimping out !!   

Paint  from Windows accessories,  in Image have option Stretch/Skew... put 50% in vertical horintal stretch and save it. I do  this to put picture here.

Don't get too excited, it just an old Bally Captain Fantastic, although it does look quite new now...
It was quite a task for my first full cabinet job - I don't think it was a wise choice to start with such a complicated pattern.
As for the photos - I did try to reduce them in Microsoft Paint using stretch and skew, but the files seem to stay the same size, way to big for posting. I'll try some other ideas... and post some photos soon. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out so far.

Dan

Finally I have reduced sized pictures...here are some of them.

more... then the finished product.

I still have to do the playfield, but overall, I'm happy with the finished product. To overlay OR not overlay... that is the next question. Ha, ha.

Thanks again to all who helped out. Special shout out to Sylvain, he helped me get a player 3 score reel problem straightened out, now this machine is really working well and looks great in the lineup.

Dan

Sweat!  Very nice.   I'm rather new, but I have learned to hate overlays.   They really affect the sound and feel of the ball - especially on these old games where the sound of the ball rolling across the wood is half the nostalgia.   My two bits....   ...don't even know where you guys find the overlays.  

For home use, its not going to get much play - and waxing should be enough - or so I'm told.

Yeah, I'm starting to think the same way about my playfield.

I've done most of the touch up work ( these Capt. Fantastic machines always seem to have wear by the drop targets in the blue paint ) but I haven't repaired the inserts ( some are a little lower than the playfield surface, although they don't seem to effect the play much ). I'm considering disassembling the entire top of the playfield and clear coating over my work. That should be fine overall, saving the old playfield, and keeping the game looking new. I think either way, overlay or no overlay, it's going to be about the same amount of work.

Anybody need a Capt. Fantastic overlay? Ha, ha.

Looks nice...........I hope my ground shaker turns out that good

Looks awesome !!!