I just wanted to bring my whole issue to a close and to warn people not to buy from jvegas if you do not physically see and check out the machine yourself.  Or at least have someone you know and trust go through the machine.

He is not a technician - yet you will see things like "needs only this and thats it", "plays excellent", "no errors", etc, etc.  These statements are very misleading and if you happen to be a newbie like me you may give them much more credibility than they deserve.

jvegas has said to me that I am not the first one to say I did not get what I expected from him.  He has said that he will no longer sell to someone who has not seen the machine.  I am not sure if this is true or not but I thought it would be only prudent to warn people on this forum that what you get may not be what you expect if you have not seen the machine yourself.

Sorry that he was unable to help me - even in the least - with the extra expense I have suffered as a result of "the machine has no errors and works great" when clearly it did not.  No one should have to go through what I have.  Please heed the warning...  

I would add that you shouldn't buy a used machine from ANYONE unless you see the machine yourself, are willing to gamble, or unless the seller is a professional pinball restorer. And that last criteria is debatable to me.

Another item of importance:
ALL machines, even new, will sooner or later develop a problem.

It is therefore important to either become educated about machines and electronics/maintenance,
or to find a reputable knowledgeable and affordable tech...

Edit: With all of the documentation and parts now available on the web these days,
it is easy to fix the most common issues with pinball.
When I started in this hobby nearly 27 years ago, there was really not much out there !
You guys have it easy now

Good luck !
- Sylvain.

always look at a game! when I bought my first game it was great everything worked so I thought. then I had a Friend with more experience come to look at it and found a whole bunch of little things (no big deal fixed em up). then a month later something failed on the power board I was in a panic. since I was a newb and really knew nothing, I looked up what the problem saw the fix on clays pages.  bought the parts replaced them and I was back in business. The long and short of this hobby is that what ever you buy new old it doesnt matter be prepaired becuase as I told many "they break, they break and did I mention they break?" moving can do it, heat can do it looking at it the wrong way can do it, having guests over to show them new toys will defnately do it. I have not blamed the previous seller ever cause it is me who agreed to buy it and after it leaves its former home it is all my problem. I know there are many on this forum who went thru the same we all learned the lesson. sorry you had a bad experience, but before the forum it was much worse there wasn't too many places to learn or voice your opinion at least this side of the border. just a quick word not the best idea to dismiss people in public because it doesnt matter there may be a game you want from a buyer and will not be able to get it think about it.

I totally agree with Sylvain. 4 years ago I bought my first machine and didn't know anything about pinballs except my son enjoyed playing one while I looked at a Ms Pacman game in a retail store. A few pinballs later  , I taught myself how to use a soldering gun, repair boards, restore playfields and feel totally comfortable buying any machine with issues to fix. Clays repair guides are amazing and if you know how to look you can even fix games with specific issues based on comments he's made about other games (ie IJ POA controls are similar to Shadows battlefield). I find I enjoy fixing and restoring almost more than playing now and nothing is a better feeling than starting with a game that has major issues and getting it 100% working knowing you did it yourself (with Clays and MAACA advice of course! )

Re buying sight unseen, I have bought games from Texas, Georgia and locally and I will tell you that pictures never show everything even when you try to take a picture of an issue and shipping can cause anything to happen. One of my first games was delivered across town and it left working (I was playing it before myself) and when arrived flippers wouldn't work. I won't even go into what happens from Texas to Ottawa .

Moral of the story - either learn to fix the machines yourself (it really is a lot of fun ) or if it isn't your thing, find a fellow collector to help or find a reputable technician who actually knows what he's doing without charging you like it's a Ferrari.

Have fun. It's only pinball.
My 0.02 worth
ME

Sounds to me like you've had a blinding flash of the obvious. As with anything else is this world, buying sight unseen is never a good idea. Would you buy a car without test driving it first?

What you learned is what a lot of people seem to learn in this hobby, if you can't or won't work on your machines yourself, it's a *very* expensive hobby. Don't rag on a seller because *you* didn't do proper research before laying out your cash. And don't expect to go back to a seller to cover repairs, especially when you got hosed on them. (Which I feel you did) If a "Service Tech" overlooks something as simple as putting a chip in backwards when there is a problem after removing/replacing said chips then he's not much of a tech. That's the first thing you should check, anything that was unplugged or changed which in this case was the chips and cables.

If you have no desire to learn how to work on your machines, be prepared to shell out a fair bit of cash to have someone do it for you. If you do want to learn how to work on your machines, my advice to you is buy a multimeter and learn how to use it. Spend a lot of time reading the online repair guides, and don't be afraid to ask lots of questions. As you have seen by all the advice you got on your "No sound" thread, people are more than willing to help you sort out a problem if you are willing to help yourself. The fastest way to learn (IMHO) is buy a older, less complex machine and learn on that.

*steps down off his soap box*

I gotta say I disagree completley with the general sentiment that it is the buyers responsibility to ensure he is getting what is advertised.  Why is pinball the only hobby where the buyer is blamed for the sellers mistakes or down right lies??

I have no idea the details of this transaction and I've never dealt with Jim myself so I can't offer any opinions related specifically to Jim or this transaction but the sentiment that the buyer is responsible kinda sickens me.  Yes things break in pinball, wires fall off, things happen but generally the machine should be in as advertised as shape.  Igonorance is not an excuse in my book, if you don't know the condition of something you are selling, don't claim to understand its condition.  If you buy a machine as 100% working with no errors, that is what you should get and if problems begin to pop up the same day you receive a machine then the seller should take responsibility.

This opinion that you should have to see a machine yourself is wrong, if you want to make sure then yes see it yourself but if a machine is advertised as 100% working that is what you should get.  I know in every machine I have sold I have fully disclosed every thing with the machine, I don't try and hide it with pictures.  If there is a problem I want the buyer to know so their are no suprises when they get the machine.  I've only sold 5 or 6 machines but I've never had a buyer come back to me with problems because they knew what they were getting.  

Here is an example, if you bought a used car from a dealership as in great shape and working 100% and as you were driving it off the lot the rear axl falls off the car or the engine craps out or something to that nature.  Would you respond with opps, sh*t guess I shoulda gone over it better sucks to be me, or would you be royally pissed off that you just got hosed buy a crappy seller?

I have to agree
If you dont see the machine in person try it or test it in person then you should not buy it.
Because hay I have done a few buy and always inspect because i got burned first time.
I purchased a few things myself from Jim I Also worked for him for abit you really have to try his machines and inspect.
because games from ebay can be really scary trust ME.
You IJ was nothing compared to a Fun Popeye I never saw somany hacks in my life.
Yes i got a good price on it but machine in the end was worth more then in the book.

Hmm... I find this discussion a bit funny. Although I agree 100% with the given statement that you should check the machine before you buy, I don't see why Jim should be pointed out in this.

This is just my 0.02$ worth:

Jim likes to buy pins off of the web. No secret there. Now, where I have a problem is that some expect that the machines are perfect. Jim deals with the same info as any of us off of the web, which is emails and pics. And thus, if you buy from Jim BEFORE he receives the machine, the risk is just as much yours as it is his. I can honestly say that I bought one game from Jim as well, and yes, my cabinet was rough. Who cares... I knew that Jim had little info on it. So I went and got it. Hell, it goes both ways too... even I have sold a pin or two which never had a problem when I had it and developped problems later... doesn't make me Satan... and I have always tried to disclose as much as I can see. I even remember selling Jim a Meteor on which I forgot 1 leg and the sound got all screwy when we set it up at a meeting at the warehouse. Jim's answer: it happens, no worries.

Am I dissappointed? Not one bit. Jim does us all a favor by bringing in many games. In fact, I am thrilled. The game has an excellent playfield and works. The rest I can deal with it. I even feel like crap due to Jim lowering his price (hey Jim... the FULL amount will be coming your way...)...  He doesn't have to, but does it anyways. As for buying pins with problems, it happens. Even in HUO pins (like that TSPP discussed in another thread).

So before anyone bites the hand that feeds them, look closely at the situation. Jim rarely makes money on his pins... he just likes the thrill of buying them. We all have that rush. So when Jim gets sick and tired of getting bashed on, you can go and buy the pins yourself off of Ebay and Mr.Pinball and bash on the direct sellers instead.

Either that, or go buy whatever pins you can find locally. I am sure that you would much rather get a Hollywood Heat that you can see for yourself anyways...

This being said, Jim, I look forward to my next purchase from you, no matter what it is!!! I promise to get that Heavy Metal all minty again, and you are welcome to come over for a beer and a mullet-experience!


Sparky

Quoted from Vengeance

I gotta say I disagree completley with the general sentiment that it is the buyers responsibility to ensure he is getting what is advertised.  Why is pinball the only hobby where the buyer is blamed for the sellers mistakes or down right lies??

Have you ever heard of "Buyer Beware"?  It applies to a lot more than just pinball, but it certainly doesn't exclude pinball either.  Be an informed consumer, check the machine thoroughly before you put your cash down.

I think the reason this applies more to pinball, than say - cars, is that given the number of yearly car sales as a whole, most times people aren't buying cars as a collector's item. They're buying it to use as transportation.  There are a lot of cars...even if a buyer was looking specifically at buying Nissan, Ford, or what have you...they're plentiful, and they're always in every city.

With pinball, most people here are now buying them for home use, and as a collector's item.  A specific machine usually isn't located where you live.  You have to arrange to pick it up, or have it shipped.  A lot of times, people are relying on digital photos, and the seller's reassurances that everything is as it should be.

I think the majority of sellers try to represent their machines fairly and honestly.  It's important the the buyer fully understands what they're buying, and that they should pre-negotiate repairs or compensation of any failures that occur directly after the sale.

Being remote in Calgary it gets hard to look @ pins.   For your next purchases, if you see them in Ottawa, Montreal or Toronto, ask a few local MAACA folks to look @ them.   I'm not qualified enough, but I'm sure there's others that would go willingly.    If I recall correctly, I think many suggested "The Shadow" in Calgary as it satisfied major criteria (1) you could see it first hand & (2) it was owned by a collector & (3) it was a good title.

You went in big with two nice machines - congrats!    Takes big ones to do that!    You had the guts to take out the chips & look @ stuff, too - and you resolved that on your own - so your on the road to doing it yourself.  

Quoted from Bish

Have you ever heard of "Buyer Beware"?  It applies to a lot more than just pinball, but it certainly doesn't exclude pinball either.  Be an informed consumer, check the machine thoroughly before you put your cash down.

Buyer Beware is usually used in refrence to when a seller has poor buisness ethics and thinks nothing of screwing people our of their money.  Buyer Beware doesn't apply to every single purchasing transaction as a consumer.

Quoted from Bish

I think the majority of sellers try to represent their machines fairly and honestly.  It's important the the buyer fully understands what they're buying, and that they should pre-negotiate repairs or compensation of any failures that occur directly after the sale.

I agree the buyer should try and be informed but the seller should also disclose any problems.  As an example, if you were selling a machine and you knew the drop targets wern't working, would you sell the machine as 100% working with nothing wrong or would you sell it as working but there is a problem with the drop targets. Or if you knew there was wear on the inlanes, would you hide it in the pictures and say playfield is in perfect shape or would you say the playfield is in great shape but there is wear in this inlane.  To me that is the diffrence between a bad seller and a good seller.  If you are not disclosing that iformation to the buyer so they can make an informed decision as far as I'm concerned you are a bad seller.  

Quoted from Sparky

Jim likes to buy pins off of the web. No secret there. Now, where I have a problem is that some expect that the machines are perfect. Jim deals with the same info as any of us off of the web, which is emails and pics.

That depends, I'm not bashing Jim, I've never dealt with the man so I can't say anything, I'm more disagreeing with the general statment that it's the buyers fault.  But lets use this as an example, if Jim buys a machine off eBay and you let Jim know you want it and he says, "Look this is what I've got for a description, these are the pics I got, I've got no other information other then that it's up to you if you want it or not"  Then yes I 100% agree that it is now up to the buyer to take responsibilty and find out what is wrong with the machine before ponying up the money.  But if Jim when selling these machines that he now owns is saying "Yes, this machine is great, works great no problems, I've seen it myself I've had a tech go over it and everything is working perfect."  I disagree, at that point Jim is now responsible for the machine regardless of where it has come from, I'm still paying Jim for it he is responsible for that machines condition and if he says it works 100% it should work 100%.  

I have no idea what the situation is again, I'm not bashing Jim I'm just using him as an example of what I would consider the diffrence between a good and bad deal is.