on advice from my wife i stayed off the computer for any pinball related stuff.  really i stayed off for everything except alittle facebook.  spent the weekend with eve and erin having loads of fun.
  haven't read all the post yet or emails.  but just wanted to thank all for caring.
  the pin is still not working.   but that wasn't the only problem.  deal was a two parter and guy i was dealing with came back with a reply that he had my item now and felt its not worth what was a done deal.  so he ended up selling my pin to another before we even traded.
so my pin became money in his pocket and i ended up with a machine not as described and not fuctioning.  plus out another machine all together.
  i am trying to work with seller.   its not and hasn't been easy.  i really wanted out.  just keep four or five pins, a jukebox, one kids ride and the  mame.
  well read all now and update soon enough.

Wow, that sounds REALLY rotten to me. I wonder what this guy has to say in response, if he's even around.

Quoted from Mrhide

You traded off a machine that was worth more then what you get? that sounds exactly like when you traded me that beat up Solar fire (without a playfield glass on top of that) for my clearcoated pinbot...  Did I ever complain about it?!(until now!) nope. I've just learned to be careful and to never accept anything without pictures from anybody.

  hey phil.
   if you remeber the whole thing with solar fire.   you didn't even have to asked about the stuff on the pf.  i told you that the pf looked to have a clear coating done on it and it wasn't nice before deal was done.  you didn't believe it and you said that didn't matter, that you should be able to fix it.  i sent you pics of it and told you it wasn't worth it.  as i have done with other machines.   then brought it up to you in person and you saw the condition.  it was a machine you really wanted bad and couldn't find you told me.  that is why you traded it for the pinbot which you were more then bored with.
   yep i ended up with your pinbot that look wonderful but had minor flaw to locking area.  that was back in the days when i didn't really know anything about pins.  minor things are never a problem.  almost every machine i picked up has minor issues.  but usally are as described and sometimes they are better then that.


   its not about price or money.  its getting what is listed in ad and getting what your told.  also the fact he has my end of the trade and i don't have his end.  let alone the other part of the deal i ended up with something that wasn't as described and not as pictured even.

Quoted from machine a boule

It means when you buy a machine, look, touch and play.

It's not complicated

stop putting the blame on the back of everybody

nobody break your arm to buy I think

it's always you who reveins with such stories

I do not cry

  thats all well and good.  its kind of hard to look touch and feel from a big distance.  if you were there that saturday at the auction you would have seen how more then busy i was.  let alone trying to get all done in time to make it back for a baby birthday with my daughter.  i did 5 deals that day.  all were stand up trades except this one.
   i stand behind my machines.  if they are not what i described or there is a issue then i will fix it.   as it turned out that the machine i brought up were so good that not one stayed in the orginal persons hands.  they traded it or sold it that day with quick profit being made in front of me.  all i said that it was good and wow, how  much?

  i kind of trust others when dealing with this group.  sorry i feel that most of us are more then great people.  we are great pinballers.   people who stand up for other pinballers when something wrong happens.  i didn't bring anything out and just posted i wasnted out due to a bad deal that happened.  people vent and thats kind of what i did.   wife told me to take a break and think about it.  so i did.  still have a pin that doesn't work proper.  reset all the switches so they work and game is playable without display.  but also don't have anything for the other part of the trade and then they said the other part makes up for the whole deal and that the pop machine was ugly (loads of pics and described it so).  orginal listing is up still.  i didn't take it down to hide anything.  unlike their orginal post of royal rumble.

  i don't have time or space for repairs at the shop.  we do it anyways.  but i try to have just working pins.  things get minor issues that i can't fix i usally trade them off and i tell all flaws when doing so.  shoot i will even tell you if a machine sucks due to gameplay and that its not worth it.  did so with a few members here even.  sorry, i am not trying to make others live up to my standards.  i am just trying to get them to live up to their own.

Quoted from MrMikeman

If he was closer I could take a look at it..  I find that brand/model of pin easy to work on..  AND I had that title a few years back..

Mike

  me too mike.  i do have mcmean and bish working on the pin and expect it will get up and running perfect again.  but thats not the issue.  seller didn't stand up and pin wasn't as described.  but again, that was part of the deal.  he left me hanging on the other part of the deal telling me he would fix it and all would be great and fine in the end.  well he ended it with i have your ugly pop machine up here and here is the new deal.

Quoted from Sparky

Oh man... this just gets worse and worse... this last member had a 4th account (Carole) claiming to be in Ottawa when selling that Time Machine pin a while back... he was based in the Quebec City area.

Jesus.... you are really not helping your cause my friend... that is afraudulent sales tactic. Lying about where the machine is...

May I just point out that if I find out that a group of people are engaging in such activities, they will all be no longer welcome here.

  this is why i tend to trust members on this site.  collectors that care.  we should protect each other the best we can.  that i usally why i do most of my trades and sales through maaca.  

Quoted from ethous

1. He is a good guy has sold maybe about 200 to 300 pins if not more and had about 3 or 4 complaints that i know of.
Also questioned tactics but hey we all want a deal.

2.This person never ripped anybody off always worked with you to make sure it was working from what i understand that was offered.

  in responce to that.
   i too have had over 200 pins in the past few years.  but this wasn't about getting a good deal and using tactics.  i was trading a tftc for a royal rumble.  all the profits were in his fav.  he had the machine listed at $1800 and in such excellent shape that it was worth that price.  i told him the flaws to my tftc and we traded.  he had my tftc flipped when we made the deal that is why he traded he stated that to me.   he dropped it off the day we traded.  didn't fix any of the issues i told him or anything.  just past it onto another person and then told me he had to go back and fix a couple of issues.  very minor issues and the new owner is very happy.   he stated to me he played royal rumble 50-100 times and it played fine with a couple switchs having issues.  well the ball couldn't roll over more then half the toggle switchs and some switches were missing pieces.  fuse right out in the open missing and a fuse on the flipper board with acid on it and the board.  cleaned and fit that.  he stated his tech went over everything on the machine.  i asked how they miss they rumble fuse missing right out in the open?  no answer on that or other questions.  all i get is what do you want?  yes, he is trying to kind of work it out (NOW).  but in the long run (more then 2 weeks now) i haven't been getting real answers to my questions.  so i was more then alittle pissed.

Quoted from gorydeath

  as it turned out that the machine i brought up were so good that not one stayed in the orginal persons hands.  they traded it or sold it that day with quick profit being made in front of me.  all i said that it was good and wow, how  much?

Not intentionally though I did not even have plans of selling it...but the parking lot swap meet is always an adventure.

But yes I do have to side with Greg here, we had multiple discussions about various trades, at one point I wanted his skee ball, I sent pics of my layout etc.  Gory wanted my Gorgar, BUT at one point told me flat out thta he did not think the skee ball would fit down my stairs...there by ending the gorgar trade. He wanted it BUT he was honest in saying he did not think it would fit; even though it "may" have meant loosing the Gorgar he did not care.  That is a STAND UP GUY move in my books.

Sorry you got screwed Gory, I do know that the guys you traded with generally have buyers before they make trades so it's too bad you can't get it back...

I am not taking sides here, just stating facts as they pertain to my own experience. I have ALWAYS had great dealings with Gory, and I have never actually had dealing with the other party involved.

Quoted Text

Sorry you got screwed Gory, I do know that the guys you traded with generally have buyers before they make trades so it's too bad you can't get it back...[

Hmmph.  I guess this thread is teaching me a thing or two.  Here I was, naively thinking that MAACA would be a good place to pick up a pin for a fair price and keep it within a community of caring / sharing pinballers.  With people flipping machines for profit, I  might as well buy any future pins off eBay , Craigslist or Kijiji.  

OK... I have been getting lots of PMs so I thought I would give an explanation here.

I got PMs with a whole range of opinions, from me being a dictator for banning people, all the way to being a saint to do it. I can tell you all that both are wrong. I didn't ban sirtype because people got the idea that I don't like him (untrue... I have spoket to hima  few times... got along great) or that I believe that he is a crook (he has sold hundreds of machines, and as far as I know, there are not hundreds of complaints, but there are some).

I believe this situation was fueled by a few things... first of all, him being labelled as a reseller, which is second to Satan according to some here. Being a reseller always had a taboo against them... almost like being the enemy. If he chooses to make a living by reselling pins, so be it. But some tend to exagerate.

Other point is that there were a few sour deals. Since I am not involved in any of them, I cannot take position, nor will I. Sour deals can come from both ways... it can be from a seller not disclosing everything (which can be from questionable practices or merely from lack of knowledge) or it can be from a buyer with high expectations. Often a condition of a machine is an interpretation. And the only way to avoid this trap is for both parties to look at the machine(s) together. Now don't get me wrong... I am not trying to blame one or another in Gory's deal... I don't know 100% what happened so I won't comment on it.

One last factor I want to throw in is emotion. It is too easy to say or write really nasty things when subject to emotion. Best to let things quiet down before commenting. Gory's wife had the best call here. Take a step back. And this emotion can also spread... just read this thread and you will know what I mean. Gerry wrote snide comments under emotion and even sent me nasty words... but I don't hold it against him. But I did take the same action on him as well... I didn't ban them just to get rid of them... I did it in sirtype's case to protect everyone including him... best if people go their own ways when no one gets along. I have even referred people to his email in order to contact him. I even sent his email to all that PMed me about contacting him. I didn't label him as a crook. I just don't want MAACA to be involved in promoting bad blood. And as for Gerry, I think he got caught up in the emotion and probably didn't think that doing certain actions would have some consequences. Is he mad that I banned him? Oh yeah... justifiably. But he did say in an email that he was glad I did it, so he could get a breather since he found himself nearly obsessed with the site. Would I let him back in? Yes. Nothing is forever. We all have our rough patches... present company DEFINITELY included.

This being said, I will not lock this post... but guys, before you write any bad words, take 5 and think about it. A conflict is best resolved directly. And let's not forget...

Rudy says it best... it's only pinball.

I value friendship and family over pinball any day...

Quoted from mrniceguy

Hmmph.  I guess this thread is teaching me a thing or two.  Here I was, naively thinking that MAACA would be a good place to pick up a pin for a fair price and keep it within a community of caring / sharing pinballers.  With people flipping machines for profit, I  might as well buy any future pins off eBay , Craigslist or Kijiji.  

Careful... it is easy to stereotype. I have bought MANY machines through MAACA. As many others have, and didn't have a problem. Like I said previously... go see a pin before buying. You might be bummed out by the condition, like you could be amazingly surprised. I have had that happen, where a member told me a pin was a dead POS... when I saw it, it was MUCH better than let on to be.

And the community is like you just posted... like any family, once in a while a conflict happens. And unfortunately, that always gathers more attention than a member getting an AWESOME deal from another. I could go on and on on that end. Jeez... I buy pins from members like Mrhide without even looking! My standards are way lower than his, so a P.O.S. for him is great for me!

Quoted from mrniceguy

naively thinking that MAACA would be a good place to pick up a pin for a fair price and keep it within a community of caring / sharing pinballers.  With people flipping machines for profit, I might as well buy any future pins off eBay , Craigslist or Kijiji.  

Could not diagree with you more. There are a lot of fine people in this comuinity and many take great pride in their machines and I would buy from many of them blind based on their descriptions. But if you are naively thinking everyone is like that, you are wrong. And what is wrong with selling a pin for market value if that means you made a profit? Most collectors on this site put lots of value in their pins by shopping and restoring them.  

The reality is that these are pinball machines after all, with hundreds of moving parts and some are 20 and 30 years old now. To think you will not have issues or breakdowns is totally being naive. Educating yourself is the greatest thing you can do or find someone knowledgeable that can help you.