I logged some time on South Park yesterday and found it to be fun. I've played WPT a few times and find it to be fun too. I've played many Sterns, even the ones that collectors generally think are stinkers, and while some are obviously better than others, they're generally all fun.

John Q. Public doesn't care if Spider Man has more or less flow/toys/ramps/targets or worse artwork than a Williams machine. 98% of the general public have no idea what the differences are between Stern games and games made previously by any other maker. Heck, 98% of the public has no idea that Stern is the only pinball manufacturer left. Nor do they care.

They do know that pinball is supposed to be fun and as long as Stern continues to make games that are fun on some level and have some kind of marketable theme, they will continue to sell in spite of what the collector community thinks.

I'm sure Spiderman, to some degree, will be fun and its theme will provide for some decent sales figures no matter what.

And say what you want about Stern, if you trudge through the RGP archives from a few years ago you'll find just as much bashing (and not just Monster Bashing) about Bally/Williams themes, gameplay and artwork as you do about Stern today. It's fashionable to criticise, it seems.  

Like I have said before... Stern doesn't have to give a crap what collectors think. As long as they sell an X mnumber of machines to distributors, they are happy.

It is not how many people play a pin that makes it a success or flop. It is how many pins the distributors buy. Even if they sit in a distributor warehouse, Stern made their money. Spiderman is guaranteed to be a hit, even if you had a lame playfield layout, or cheesy art. It is popular RIGHT NOW. It will sell bigtime.

I must admit that I do find the criticism on MAACA and RGP VERY entertaining... it can be funny as hell! I read one last week from a guy complaining of a color on one insert...   . And Elio... please, no offence, I understand where you are coming from, but Doc.Ock/Doctor Octavius/Otto Octavius? The thing is most if not all distributors (who buy an estimated 90-95% of the games) don't care about those details.

Besides, if you were Gary Stern, which of these two guys would you pay attention the most? :

"Hey Stern... Spiderman?... popular theme... I should make money on a route with that. Looks good? Yup, I see the pics, pretty decent. OK Gary, I will take 30 of them."

or

"Hey Stern... I am So-And-So on RGP... I think your pins suck a** compared to the late Williams, but I am interested in that Spiderman pin... I don't like the color though... and why is there no reference to the original cartoon? You guys made it strictly based on the movie, I am not impressed. I tried it at a local distributor, and I thought it was ok, but there was this ... and that too sucked ... and I would have done that this way ... and your flippers are clunky ... Wheel of Fortune??? WTF ... is that show still on? ... why always licensed themes ... that damn pixelated art ... I hate the photoshop translites ... Monty who? ... blah blah blah... OK, I will buy one and one alone, but you guys should get your mess straight."


THIS is why I will never buy pin-rights if I ever win the lottery or something. I would hate to be in Stern's shoes.

With this being said, I just like to play pinball, man. I don't care what it is. I am just glad that Stern is still around. And if you think that the rulesets are too simple on the Sterns, go play an EM!  

TwilightZone & Sparky: Ok, boys, I won't complain again, Geez, Doc Ock, ok, soooo cool.  Like you re-emphasised Sparky, it is the operators purchases that make a Pin successful and not what a player or potential collector thinks about the graphics.

MrMikeman:  This has been beaten to death many times already.  Stern still uses a screening process for the pf..  Yet they are doing photo realistic pictures.  Pixelization/dithering is inevitable.  If they went to "cartoon-like" artwork like Wms/Bally had in the late 90's then they pf colors would look much brighter/nicer.
No, that is not all true.  You can use different (but yes, a bit more expensive) printing to get small graphics like those on Slingshots not to be pixelated.  Furthermore, I went to see the Family Guy Pin and a lot of the plastics which are indeed "cartoon-like" are very pixelated (go see for yourself if you can find one near you)....

Have fun.  

Quoted from 80s.fan

Like you re-emphasised Sparky, it is the operators purchases that make a Pin successful and not what a player or potential collector thinks about the graphics.
  

Trust me... I am on your side with the whole cheesy graphics and cutting corners idealism (yes, even for lettering such as writing Doc Ock instead of the full name), but it seems to be a reality of the market today.

I think it is what killed Williams as well. They maybe made their games TOO good and TOO complicated, which made them pricey to buy and upkeep. It is cheaper to replace clear plastic parts (like we see all over POTC and FG... that is the only thing I REALLY dislike) than molded and painted formed plastic. ... but then again, didn't Williams try to revolutionize it all with P2K by making an easily-converted pin? Well, they were probably pricey as well...

I am most probably wrong when I say that Stern doesn't listen to the collectors when designing a pin, but I simply doubt they take everything the collectors say to the bank. That would be corporate suicide.

And another thing Elio... NEVER stop complaining!!! If no one ever complained about Stern pins, they would be on their 10th run of Striker Extreme! My point being that criticism is what makes us challenge each other to do better every time. If no one complains about a product, it will never improve...

Hey Elio,

No offense was intended and hope none was taken. Just sharing an opinion. BTW, I agree w/ Sparky never stop complaining, but I think there is "fair" complaining and "whatever" complaining. Doc Ock vs. another name is "whatever". Doesn't effect the game at all. Personally I like Doc Ock vs the other names, so I don't really see the big deal. Also like MJ better than Mary Jane.

The pixel graphics, on the other hand, is a fair complaint. I often do graphic work for clients, so I'm familiar with costing print jobs. For brochures, posters, etc. the cost difference is really minor to do full colour vs spot, so I totally don't understand why their cabinets, plastics, etc.  are "pixalated". If there is a savings, it's very, very minor. On the other hand, from 2 feet away you cann't tell the difference and most ops wouldn't care either way. Still, I do think it's a shame they cann't improve that.

Duane

"Whatever", Duane....




Don't worry.  I know that we all have our 'fair' vs 'whatever' point of views.  I mean, besides Classifieds, there hasn't been too much action on this board (since the Summer heat started coming along)....

Quoted from Sparky

....THIS is why I will never buy pin-rights if I ever win the lottery or something. I would hate to be in Stern's shoes.  ...

This statement is the only thing said in this thread that surprised me.  Sparky I thought (2 years ago) you said that if you won the lottery you would buy WMS and bring mfg up to Canada.  Guess times have changed.    

Quoted from TwilightZone

.....the cost difference is really minor to do full colour vs spot, so I totally don't understand why their cabinets, plastics, etc.  are "pixalated". If there is a savings, it's very, very minor. ....

Duane

If I recall correctly the figure tossed about was a savings for $30-$40 per game.  It really comes down to penny pinching and that's $30-$40 more profit for stern.  I can't blame them as a business but it sucks for us collectors who on occasion care more about the esthetics of a game rather than the content of it.

Quoted from Meat Popsicle

If I recall correctly the figure tossed about was a savings for $30-$40 per game.  It really comes down to penny pinching and that's $30-$40 more profit for stern.  I can't blame them as a business but it sucks for us collectors who on occasion care more about the esthetics of a game rather than the content of it.

30 to 40$ x 5000 game production = 150000 to 200000$ ... pays a few salaries I guess.

As for the lottery/rights thing, I just noticed that people in the business get nailed a lot... I might change my mind!

i just can't wait to play spiderman.   i am like a kid in a candy store when i go into a arcade and i see stuff i have never played.  i always give it a try.
  always happy to hear new titles being down.  i think i mention awhile ago when we were talking about types of pins we would like to see done.  i thought i put down some weird ones:  rocky horror picture show and monty python (others also).  well good to hear python is being done.  it was mentioned that it might be 20yrs to late.   far as i know, python is still kind of hot.   spam the play is doing well and their is another play done by the guys about to start soon as well.  its still on tv quite a bit.  alot of people who play pinball are from that time period and good chance so are the distributor.  told my wife and she is very happy about it.  told friends who don't play too much expect when they are over.  loads are looking forward to it.   might have to get them all together for a trip once one goes out in location in toronto or closer.
   i really don't care is pf look isn't up to par with some machines from yestaryear.   i thought fg was a blast and looked great.  i am just glad there is a new machine to hunt down and play.
i enjoy collecting, but what i love is playing.

Quoted from Sparky

30 to 40$ x 5000 game production = 150000 to 200000$ ... pays a few salaries I guess.

... Unless you are taking a game like the Soprano's.

$30 to $40 x 500 games = $15000 to $20000  !

Quoted from Monkeybug

... Unless you are taking a game like the Soprano's.

$30 to $40 x 500 games = $15000 to $20000  

Monkeybug, good thing you don't build bridges for a living  . Sparky is correct. Your mistake was the number of games: 5000 (as Sparky said vs. 500 which you state).

Duane

Quoted from TwilightZone

Monkeybug, good thing you don't build bridge for a living  . Sparky is correct. Your mistake was the number of games: 5000 (as Sparky said vs. 500 which you state).

Duane

They made more than 500 Soprano's?