Is it a good deal?
http://montreal.kijiji.ca/c-ac.....e-W0QQAdIdZ227382805

Hurry up!

$6500 seems pretty high for a CV...

In fact, I've never seen any go for more than 5K...


Steph

Quoted from Steph

$6500 seems pretty high for a CV...

In fact, I've never seen any go for more than 5K...


Steph

Some guy look the value on ebay and think that's the price  

definitly too high!

i only remember one or two with a cv in quebec... now could this be the same guy that used to sell everything very high?

May be a bit pricey but then again it isn't like they come up often FS up here and bringing one up from the states never costs you in the end what the guy in the states is selling it for once you get it here.

coming from St Nicolas its always TOO pricy!!!

Quoted from powerslave

Is it a good deal?
http://montreal.kijiji.ca/c-ac.....e-W0QQAdIdZ227382805

and to say you could of had one for about  half that!

My answer in French: Non!

Well well well... if it isn't our buddy RS... well... I will let you figure it out.

I guess he graduated from 5000$ Playboys to 6500$ CVs. Pattern seems to always be the same. A 3000$ mark-up.

Hello All, I'm pretty new on Maaca but not on pinball collecting. So I'd like to drop my two cents if you don't mind. CV is a great game, no doubt about it. It's a game I qualify of "near perfect balance" which is pretty rare in the pinball world. By "balance" I mean that gameplay, feedback and art make a coherent, extremely entertaining whole.  But it's way too much asking even if it's a rare occurence on the market. 2010 price guide quote it at 4 475$. Well that's a pretty precise estimate , but we all agree that the price guide does not reflect real market value,especially in Quebec / Canada. Still, I'm ready to put a few extra hundred bucks on a pinball than what the price guide may say, but 2000$ more is just ...well I'll keep my real thought to myself on that.

My point is...and that's the real reason of my post: Why do (some) peoples keep on trying to make money out of pinball. Pinball industries is not what it used to be and should be considered as is: A great fun hobby to where you are lucky to not loose money while enjoying it (when you actually manage to buy responsibly ). Pinballs do get value through the years but some people seems to think that they may actually make a living out of it; based on the time, add ons, restoration they may have put on a machine.

Finally, my answer to Powerslave: I would never pay more than 5000$ on a CV, and it's condition should be pretty awesome. Still, for this price I could get 2 pinball machines, which combined, would beat the CV gameplay

But you would still have two of something else and not one of CV if that is the title you want to own.

I'm down to really deciding when not if I will buy a CC. Sure I could buy a lot of other games for that money but if I want a CC what's the point in having the other games that I don't really really want?

For games you really want, it's worth it to possibly lose a little in your investment.

People around here are so hung up sometimes on paying a little more than book price.  I am concerned with this, and I’m not saying I’m made of money, or that I am willing to always pay more, however for the titles you are *really* looking for, who cares... Buy it if it feels right, you only live once.

There really isn’t another hobby/interest out there that ensures return on your investment like these machines do.  Buy a new tv, car (even classic), and you will be losing money right away.

With pinball machines, you literally get to have your cake and eat it too.

Aaron

Quoted from Dreg

My point is...and that's the real reason of my post: Why do (some) peoples keep on trying to make money out of pinball. Pinball industries is not what it used to be and should be considered as is: A great fun hobby to where you are lucky to not loose money while enjoying it (when you actually manage to buy responsibly ). Pinballs do get value through the years but some people seems to think that they may actually make a living out of it; based on the time, add ons, restoration they may have put on a machine.

If you knew the history of this seller, you would understand. He has been banned from this group for unethical selling practices. He buys from people, complains about the product once received in order to get some sort of partial refund, and then turns around and sells it (or at least tries to) at an extremely high price.

He pissed off a lot of people here, and I even know for a fact that one or two are considering taking legal actions against him.

Quoted from necro_nemesis

But you would still have two of something else and not one of CV if that is the title you want to own.

I'm down to really deciding when not if I will buy a CC. Sure I could buy a lot of other games for that money but if I want a CC what's the point in having the other games that I don't really really want?

Agree 100% Alot of collectors make the comparison of "oh that game is too much...you could have 2 blah blah". If you want and can afford it, go for it. No two games are going to replace a game YOU WANT. I had a CV, enjoyed the hell out of it for a few years, sold it for a fair price to a MAACA member who is now enjoying the hell out of it....and bought two games instead ! Point is when I wanted it, no two games could match it. Once I was tired of it, it made sense to sell it. The irony is that I bought two games. I had intended to only buy one and bank the rest....somehow that didn't happen.  

Duane

Quoted from MAGNETO

and to say you could of had one for about  half that!

Yes and I don't know why  

I think 4 out of 5 dentists would agree that $6500 for a CV is too much...and the 5th dentist is just being a crapweasel.    As usual, the discussion took a philosophical turn, becoming a debate over whether indulging in an overly-expensive pin that someone really wants is a "bad" thing.  You can forget about having that question answered.  There is no answer.  As to the original question, I assume no one would buy a CV for $20K even if they really wanted one.  On the other hand, everyone would buy a CV for $100.   So obviously, the "that's too expensive" number is somewhere between $100 and $20K, and it will be different for different people.   If you defend $6500, be reminded that it's a slippery slope.  If you are okay with paying $6500, why not $6600 ? And so on.  At some point, everyone reaches their limit.  
So while it is not posible to "prove" that $6500 is too much, it is possible to show that it is excessive even if you really want the game.  If you are remotely patient, the game can be had fore less.  

Now somebody help me down from this soapbox.

Glenn-

Your philosophy background is quite evident.

A friend of mine bought a CV and a TOM from Treasure Cove. It cost him near $20 000 (freight, tax, duties, exchange rate). Do they worth it?? It depends of what you're looking for. If you live in Quebec city and you are looking for a CV, you will wait a very very long time until someone ''give'' you his pin. Forget the fu...pinball book, if you are not able to find what you are looking for = YOU HAVE TO PAY.
It is not a matter of making money, it's a matter of offer/demand. (All of us want a CV)

Some people want a pin and some people want a specific pin. The first kind will always find the price too high, the second kind will be happy to find his specific pin even for a little higher price than the market. I'm the second kind, sometimes i pay higher price and sometime lower price than the market but more important, i have the pins i really wanted   And when you don't like a specific pin, you will always find the price too high.

very very good comment!Maxim .when did love have paid

Quoted from Holy_Pickle

It is not a matter of making money, it's a matter of offer/demand. (All of us want a CV)

I believe that's what you call an oxymoron .
(...not the person, ... the statement... )

---

Of COURSE it's a matter of money.

If you think there is a demand, then obviously you will want more money.

Your statement makes no sense...

As for $6500, ...if there is a buyer for that, I've got a stellar TZ ( 9+ ) for sale for $6000 !



Steph

Finally a thread that is discussing pin pricing rationally on MAACA!  MrNiceGuy and HAL have summed it up perfectly.

D

Quoted from Holy_Pickle

It is not a matter of making money, it's a matter of offer/demand. (All of us want a CV)

Not me
Few week past someone offer me CV at very nice price,I gave the deal at another guy

Quoted from HAL-9OOO

Some people want a pin and some people want a specific pin. The first kind will always find the price too high, the second kind will be happy to find his specific pin even for a little higher price than the market. I'm the second kind, sometimes i pay higher price and sometime lower price than the market but more important, i have the pins i really wanted   And when you don't like a specific pin, you will always find the price too high.

Totally agree with this comment. I'm the one who wants a specific pin too.

Don't forget the ''shape'' of the pin, i'm ready to pay $6500 for CV IF (AND ONLY IF) the pin is MINT. Unfortunately, MINT doesn't mean the same for each people too.

About the IJ at $9500 on Ebay. I can't affort it but it WORTH it!! That is a piece of ART!! I know, i know, someone will tell me: ''i found i mint IJ for $152.50 bla bla bla''

We can all sit here and debate whether something is too much but I have seen folks sit on the sidelines and struggle about getting something they really want whilst some guy more free with his spending goes and snaps up the machine.

So what's the right answer? Likely trying to work the price down to what you think is reasonable and hoping a guy that has the money to pay asking doesn't show up.

The early bird gets the worm, but it's the second mouse gets the cheese?!

Let me add my two cents here.  But first I must precise I know the guy who sell the pin and I am perfectly aware that there was some issues with members on this forum.  I make many efforts to stay away from the crowd.  I know that common passions can bring peoples to do stange things and you can have a good example of this with davidc last tread.  Some MAACA peoples know me in the Quebec region and can testified that i am neutral and I want to stay this way.

I have personnaly played on that pin and I can tell you something this pin is near perfection!  It looks like an HUO and I am not kidding.  He might sell it what you consider a unreasonnable price but it really worth it... IF YOU REALLY WANT ONE!  If you really want this pin you know the value of it and he know's it too.  In my philo, you should always be able to sell something at the price you want.  If you were right you will sell it and prove that you were wise.  If not, you will be stuck with it and prove that you made a bad decision.

My point of view.

Quoted Text

If you are remotely patient, the game can be had fore less.  

I (respectfully of course ) disagree with this somewhat.  I have been here now, actively, for 6-7 months, and there has not been one TZ for sale in Ontario, only one in Alberta, only one Addams, which I bought, no CV, no MM, no MB, one TOM, , I think one IJ, no no no....!, just a lot of C and D titles, and some B’s here and there.

Then, if something has come up, it is snatched up instantly by more or less the first person that sees the add, as we are all looking for the same list of A titles.  And most that do acquire these, get them in unlisted arrangements.

I was thinking of getting an EM at one time, but watching all of these flood MAACA, kijiji and craig’s list makes them all look tired and unappealing to me.

I had to go to MPAmusements to get my TZ, and while I likely paid a little more, and there was some hassle with them to get them to cough up the parts needed to make it what it should have been, it was well worth the little trouble, and I have a perfect TZ, and I’m likely going to *have to* go this route again to get another pin I want.

“Good things come to those that wait” sounds like “two wrongs don’t make a right” and other incorrect things you tell your children.  Good things come NOW to those that willing to pay a bit more.  And the little more will be in the return when you wish to sell, as supply and demand will dictate this.

What kills me are the people flooding the wanted section asking for a MM, IJ, AFM TAF TZ etc, with the message “willing to pay reasonable prices”.  The list, and that comment DO NOT go hand in hand.

I can think of two games I have purchased in the last several months where there was a debate on and on here about whether they were overpriced. So, for about $300.or $400.  more per game than many people would pay here I bought a perfect Tommy and a perfect GnR. Now, granted both machines had some small issues when I got them, but I was able to fix them easily and the additional dollar outlay was relatively minor.

On the other hand when you are talking about 1-2K above typical market price that's a whole lot more cash for something you really want. Can't blame the seller for asking, after all he just might get it. He might not win a popularity contest here, but so long as he doesnt misrepresent the product he can do whatever he wants, more power to him.

I think the reason a lot of "A" list machines dont go up for sale on the board here is because others may have expressed interest to the previous owners if they ever consider selling. So, the seller knows who to contact and the sale is quick and easy. Oh, and there's no open debate about a fair selling price  

A-List pins are still available, but the price has gone up, and most people that say that can be had for less have not tried to buy them recently and live in the past. Most A-List pins that are sold do not even make it to For Sale list, they are traded among guys in the community.

What should a TZ sell for these days? I would say an average routed one is worth $3500-4000 shopped and based on condition. I would also say that most people that own one now would not sell theirs for that.

I have a mint TAFG that I would sell for $7000 and there is a small market for it, like there is for a $6500 CV. Recently I have bought back the B-List games that I enjoyed playing and each one cost me more than what I sold my original pins for. Prices have gone up guys and it is supply and demand. Older EM's and SS games will always be available, but A & B list games will become harder to get and the price will only go up.    

Quoted from Atomicboy

I (respectfully of course ) disagree with this somewhat.  I have been here now, actively, for 6-7 months, and there has not been one TZ for sale in Ontario, only one in Alberta, only one Addams, which I bought, no CV, no MM, no MB, one TOM, , I think one IJ, no no no....!, just a lot of C and D titles, and some B’s here and there.

Then, if something has come up, it is snatched up instantly by more or less the first person that sees the add, as we are all looking for the same list of A titles.  And most that do acquire these, get them in unlisted arrangements.

...

What kills me are the people flooding the wanted section asking for a MM, IJ, AFM TAF TZ etc, with the message “willing to pay reasonable prices”.  The list, and that comment DO NOT go hand in hand.

Both mistakes in my honest opinion. For an A-list title, you CAN'T wait for it to come to you. You have to look hard and be active on the market. Looking in the Classifieds and waiting for a machine to pop up, or merely posting a WANTED ad won't work.

If you REALLY want one, you have to be quick and tough. Contact people. Develop connections and a network of eyes and ears. Put up a finder's fee. and don't be too discriminate. The more finicky you are on the condition, the more you will wait and the more you will pay. I personally also believe that if you say you want a machine but always lowball on the price, you don't truly want that machine.

But... this being said, that price for the CV IS insane. But RSSS knows very well that there is always a fish out there that will bite for an overpriced A-list pin.

The mess's just not around in abundance anymore. Debate all you want but your better to negotiate with a seller than debate if you want a machine.

There likely are more collectors than there were operators. Do the math. How much do you think there is to go around?

Quoted from HP5P

A-List pins are still available, but the price has gone up, and most people that say that can be had for less have not tried to buy them recently and live in the past. Most A-List pins that are sold do not even make it to For Sale list, they are traded among guys in the community.  

I still stand by my statement that a CV can be had for less than $6500 if you are patient.  There are members on this board who have purchased A-list titles for good prices recently because they were patient.  Of course, that says nothing about condition.  If you want an HUO-looking machine, then the price may not be out of line.   If you do nothing but check on MAACA once in a while, and if you are unwilling to drive or have other restrictions then it will be much harder if not impossible to find what you want.   But the more flexible the buyer is, the more prospects will come up.   For example, there is a CV in Tennessee for an asking price of $3600.  Even after exchange, gas and taxes, it's a decent deal if you are satisfied with a working non-minty sample of the machine.   The same goes for other A-list titles.  You also have the option of esstablishing yourself on any number of smaller pinball/vid forums and finding machines that way before they are put on the market.   Almost every time I pick up a machine in the U.S., I have the option to buy another one ~ either from the guy's basement or from a friend of his.  Especially in the U.S. , there are tons of A-list titles sitting in people's basements who are getting squeezed more and more each day by the lacklustre economy. They are holding onto these titles until the very end, but I believe that more and more of them will be hitting the market over the next few months/years.

I just want to add that the price of pins, especially the more coveted titles, will likely continue to rise ( at what rate, who knows ) but eventually, the collectors who fondly remember the days when pinball arcades ruled the world will be 6 feet under and an army of ungrateful offspring will sell off their father's ( mother's ? ) collections with an indifference that will be hard to measure.  

I don't know, I think in the coming years, A and B list games are going to start to skyrocket, and C and D’s will increase proportionately as well.  Pins are unique (news to you I’m sure).  Everyone that comes to my place to play them, whether they have played some before, or never have, love them, and are immediately enthralled by them – glued to them for hours.  They don’t get old like video games.  I mean a well lit, and properly working pin is much more exciting to even my kids and their friends over xbox/PS/Wii games.

As time goes on, more pins will die off, get parted out, be victims of flood and fire damage, however the desire for collectors will stay the same, and will drive these things through the roof.  Look at how many people are on kijiji/craig’s/here looking for their first pin, and we all know where that leads, compared to those that are “getting out”.

These things are money in the bank as far as I’m concerned, except the money isn’t in the bank, being enjoyed as a figure on your bank slip, it is in your home, waiting to increase in value, while you play the hell out of it.

Ok, I’m pumped, someone send me a price on their overpriced A or B list game!

What will a CV be worth 30 years from now if it no longer works, no parts can be found for it and hardly anyone on the planet knows how to fix it ?   I would like to think that my pin collection will keep appreciating in perputuity, but unlike money in the bank, the value of a pin can depreciate very quickly as soon as it becomes non-functioning.  But of course, who cares about 30 years down the road ?  I'll let my kid worry about that !  

But I'm wondering about your statement :   As time goes on, more pins will die off, get parted out, be victims of flood and fire damage,..
Who are these people who will have their CVs crap out or get destroyed while your CV enjoys a surge in value ?  The trick will be to make sure that your machine doesn't become a statistic and that's where the risk lies, I suppose.

Quoted Text

But I'm wondering about your statement :   As time goes on, more pins will die off, get parted out, be victims of flood and fire damage,..
Who are these people who will have their CVs crap out or get destroyed while your CV enjoys a surge in value ?

Well, first off, I don't have a CV, and obviously in general, as time goes one, this will happen, right?  There isn't a game out there, i'm sure, where there are still the same amount produced still floating around.  Fires happen, floods happen, people put axes through them at times (youtube rollingstone pinball).  And it's not like anyone is making more of them, well unless you include that great MM venture haha.

As for the 30 years from now comment, i don't know, what are those rare woodrail pins worth now from 50+ years?  I believe most have more than held on to their orignal value.

In the end, I firmly believe we will not see a massive downswing in the trend int eh coming years, and this will only swing up, as again demand is rising, and supply is slowly dwindling, and being hoarded (yes I'm looking at you Wayne!   )

Quoted from mrniceguy

What will a CV be worth 30 years from now if it no longer works, no parts can be found for it and hardly anyone on the planet knows how to fix it ?

Ah, there is where you have to look at what is out there. Guys are running parts for Williams/Bally and if they are making parts they make a batch and sit on the extras. This is partly why your paying relatively high prices for these replacement parts now. The guy may make a batch of 500 knowing he will likely sell a 100 in the near future, but the price for 500 vs 100 per part makes it worthwhile to build more and charge for it up front.

CV is likely a bad example for parts. Premier, DE etc. games would be a better example as they are not getting the licensing or the love. Just look at desireable jukes. They still have many parts in production for the desireable units. Jukes to me defy logic in that the devices technology has been improved upon a 100 fold in the digital age and yet people still want them and parts are still available as such for the more sought after models. I see collectable pinball being no different and in fact unlike jukes really do not have a new an improved replacement. This to me paints an even better picture for pinballs future than jukeboxes.

Stick with the collectable pins and you won't go wrong in the long run.

Quoted from necro_nemesis

Stick with the collectable pins and you won't go wrong in the long run.

Yea but what is collectible and wasn't isn't is fickle.  CV was being blown out the doors when Williams closed their doors because no one wanted them.  Their recent upswing to the collectible side of things is another trend that just as easily as it is currently going up, could just as easily go down.  No one has a crystal ball, stop worrying about what they will be worth and just enjoy them for what they are now.  

Quoted from necro_nemesis

Jukes to me defy logic in that the devices technology has been improved upon a 100 fold in the digital age and yet people still want them and parts are still available as such for the more sought after models. I see collectable pinball being no different and in fact unlike jukes really do not have a new an improved replacement. This to me paints an even better picture for pinballs future than jukeboxes.

True.

However, the market for restored collectable jukes has come down quite a bit in the last 10 years.
Many people believe that, as the current baby boomer population ages, and the younger people
have never been exposed to these devices when they were young, thus the desireability and
collectability falls (and the price), as less people want the older things.

I also think the same will occur with pins in 20 years from now - less people will want them in my
opinion, again only due to age/generation/exposure... I cannot see prices going up much further...
But this is only me...

Cheers,
- Sylvain.

Quoted from Vengeance

CV was being blown out the doors when Williams closed their doors because no one wanted them.

Ops didn't want them but with Cameron Silvers upgrade home software the collectors saw the merits of the game.

I don't want to get down to opinions of a game. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one but I will look at the vast majority of collectors out there and the vast majority, myself included love CV with the home roms.

I've moved around games mostly for the fun of enjoying them fully and I have been served well not to lose my shirt by sticking to titles that had some interest. Whether it was Sys 11, B list or A list Williams WPC there has always been a market and that has always meant that selling them meant you weren't stuck with a boat anchor. Luckily it seems the games I like are the ones that others like. Coincidence, unlikely, they are just fun games. These forces of nature will not change. If a game is good it's good period.

In the final analysis I do not care so much what my games that I will keep are valued at. Likely this will be a concern to my children as I will likely leave this planet with a healthy gameroom. I know myself and I still drive the same Mustang I have had since 1975 which means I tend to keep the same opinion of what I own regardless of the changing times as it is important in how it makes me feel vice how others feel about it. What was of importance was not to get stuck with a game in process of acquiring my gameroom of choice and on that note I say stick to the classics as you will be served better by those titles in moving though this pinball adventure.

Your right Sylvain. Many kids today don't know what a pinball machine is, does that detract from whether or not it's fun no. Who knows maybe the rest of the world will tire of just playing video games and start to look around at previous forms of entertainment. Pinball is certainly something to consider.

Williams blew out everything WPC95. They built too many titles at a time when the market couldn't absorb them. It has little to do with the quality of the game, but for an operator yes I would have picked MM over CV to put on a route at the time too.

Quoted from mrniceguy

What will a CV be worth 30 years from now if it no longer works, no parts can be found for it and hardly anyone on the planet knows how to fix it ?

People were saying the same about early SS pins in the 90's. Today, we have repro boards and lots of parts are still available. I am somewhat not too worried about that.

With the jukes though, in my opinion, this is somewhat like the vids, they can be replicated for cheaper for essentially the same thing or better.  An Ipod, the web, and a stereo sounds much better then jukes playing 45’s.  You can download a 12,000 game plus mame to your computer for nothing.  These things are true nostalgia for those that collect them.

With pins, there is nothing like them that is better than the actual thing itself, and there is by no means nothing cheaper.  Even the STUPID pin2000 which I got to play at Starburst last week for the first time costs a ton.  The Wii pinball classics plays much better at a fraction of the cost.

And even if you overpay say $6,000 for a $4,000 game, sell it in 4-5 years for only say $4,500, which most would say would be a huge loss they would never do, what have you REALLY lost?  What other entertainment on such a nightly scale do you do (sex excluded, well for some) that would cost less given frequency and duration?  Even if you only break even, that is how many hours of more of less countless FREE fun.

If this CV is overpriced what do you say about this:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Monster-Bas.....;hash=item19bf07068f

He just relisted it. He first put it up for $7800. He dropped it $900 and now is accepting offers.

Quoted from HP5P

If this CV is overpriced what do you say about this:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Monster-Bas.....;hash=item19bf07068f

He just relisted it. He first put it up for $7800. He dropped it $900 and now is accepting offers.

Hey when I see an MB FS even I get excited and hell I own one. I guess that's why I consider the game A list, it really peaks my interest.

Do you know who it is? I see Creech and TOM on the sides.

Getting back to it, as George Gomez once said, let me paraphrase, he liked designing toys and pinball is one of the biggest baddest toys out there. I don't think that aspect will change, what may change is the skill set not being around to fully enjoy them.

Quoted from Atomicboy

  And even if you overpay ... what have you REALLY lost?  What other entertainment on such a nightly scale do you do (sex excluded, well for some) that would cost less given frequency and duration?  Even if you only break even, that is how many hours of more of less countless FREE fun.

Couldn't agree more.

I'm just jealous that all i can afford right now are B and C titles.  

But I think I might be onto something when I say that from within the hobby, it is hard to be objective about how the rest of the world views and values these games.  I wonder how many people on this forum collect pinball machines but never played them growing up.  I would guess a very small percentage.   Nostalgia is such a strong driving force in the hobby, it's hard to forecast how pins will be valued once that aspect is gone or at least marginalized.  Maybe that's a reason to believe that only the A-titles will survive, since they offer more gameplay than nostalgia.  It's really hard to say.

But I still look forward to the day when I'm 75 and I roll up to all you CV owners in my wheelchair and laugh because your CV is now only worth $74 K.  Sounds like a lot, but by then, a loaf of bread will be almost $1K !  

Quoted from mrniceguy

I wonder how many people on this forum collect pinball machines but never played them growing up.  

*Raises hand*

I was a video kid, I grew up playing consoles and video games in the arcades, pinball was something I would throw a couple quarters in every once and a while.  But it defiantly wasn't my main draw, hell my first purchased coin-op game as a Street Fighter II and it grew from there.  

If you even remotely consider pinball machines to be an investment, you must buy low and sell high. So, it looks like RSSS is treating it as such.

Realistically, I see pinball machines at home as what appears to be an extravagent entertainment item but if handled properly it can actually be cheap entertainment. For example, I buy a machine for $3500, over time I buy somee parts, maybe do some repairs. Overall my cost might be $4100, say, but I had many hours of entertainment and enjoyed
tinkering and learning. Now, years later for whatever reason I wish to sell the machine and wind up getting $3500 for it. What did it cost me? Maybe around $125/year. Multiply that by 10 games. So, I spent $1250/year for entertainment shared with others, and enjoyed something I am passionate about.

So, should I be pissed if I lose a few hundred on a machine sale?

Oh, by the way it's not as though if the money had been invested in the past few years there would have been any return. In fact I'm almost sorry I didn't cash in my RRSP for "A" listers.

The laugh will be all mine, as I'll inform you once again that I do not have one!

And even if I do buy one, and I'm 75 and in a wheelchair, what the hell else could you do with your day given your state that would be more fun??

Quoted Text

Realistically, I see pinball machines at home as what appears to be an extravagent entertainment item but if handled properly it can actually be cheap entertainment. For example, I buy a machine for $3500, over time I buy somee parts, maybe do some repairs. Overall my cost might be $4100, say, but I had many hours of entertainment and enjoyed
tinkering and learning. Now, years later for whatever reason I wish to sell the machine and wind up getting $3500 for it. What did it cost me? Maybe around $125/year. Multiply that by 10 games. So, I spent $1250/year for entertainment shared with others, and enjoyed something I am passionate about.

So, should I be pissed if I lose a few hundred on a machine sale?

My previous point exactly.  What does the average bill cost  for the boobtube?  I'll lose more paying for that crap than I ever will on a bad pinball transaction, and given the fun factor there, i'm actually talkng myself out of paying for it anymore, and turning our theater into another pin room...

seriously, this thread is classic, we can all use it to show our wives as another form of justification

It is indeed a very sophiticated entertainment.  The best, you don't lose any money.  The rare, you make few bucks out of it.  The impossible, you make enought money out of it for a living...  Let's be honnest here; take all the time, the efforts, the tools, the parts you need and tell me it is a good investment...  I just don't beleive in pinball as a valuable thing to put your money in.  The only reason for me to invest in a pin is passion.  What else?

I don't look at pins as investments, but I do look at them as something that I enjoy that will hold their value.

I always like knowing that if I ever REALLY needed to get my money out of them I could.

At about the same time I started heavily collecting I could have equally gone out and bought an Audi A8 but instead opted for my POS Mazda Protoge. The way I looked at it at the time was the car didn't mean all that much to me and didn't bring me anywhere near the enjoyment the hobby and ownership of a bunch of pinballs would so I said to myself all I need is a reliable set of wheels.

Depreciation on that A8 would make it nearly worthless nothing now, beaten since I needed to drive the hell out if everyday, and I would be out looking for a new car. My pinballs are still here and in better shape than I got them in. This unconventional thinking in the end makes me feel my games owe me nothing for the enjoyment I got from them over this entire period. In my unconventional way of thinking I got more out the hobby than I would have gotten from the car, and they're still here! I don't give two craps if the neighbours or my co-workers see me with an expensive car. I have a private parking spot and like to point out the fact I likely have have the crappiest car in the lot parked in it. I don't get paid a dime extra for showing up to work in a nice car. In fact I don't think having a nicer car than others psychologically has any positive affect on people. If anything driving a POS makes you more accepted and not trying to demonstrate somehow your an elitist, but I will leave that to Glenn to analyze. I work in an industry where respect does not come from the size of your paycheck.

Sure having the car and the pins would have been nice but I just didn't have the money for both. We make choices and I still feel putting money into the games was the better one regardless of how much they are worth now.

Every pin has a different price in the mind of everyone.  Is $6,900 too much for CV?  Yes, but I can say that because I already own one.  ;  I didn't pay close to that but I would have paid more than I did given the rarity of the game in Canada.  At the end of the day each person will determine the price they are willing to pay for a game.