Here's why I can't reccomend Apple..
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machine.slave
March 1, 2010, 1:35pm Report to Moderator

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So the video card on my almost 2-year-old Mac Pro just died.. fair enough, it happens.  Also, it being almost 2 years old, naturally the warranty is over.. fair enough, that also happens.  Here's where it gets fun..

Having used Macs professionally for over 12 years now, I've had to replace my share of parts, but haven't had to do so recently other than a hard drive, but those are simple enough.. and thankfully not proprietary.  You see, in the old days almost every part used in a Mac was proprietary, meaning you had to buy the part from them or you simply couldn't buy the part.  That made more sense back then since Apple's core architecture was nothing like a PC.. but these days, Macs are simply PC parts in a fancy case, so I figured it'd be a matter of throwing any 'ole PCI-E card in there and off I go.

Not so much.

After an hour and a half of Google, I came to the conclusion that there were actually only 4 video cards natively supported by my Mac Pro: all of which you can only buy from the Apple store, because they need to be flashed by Apple to work on their systems.    Now it is apparently possible to buy a number of different PC cards and flash them yourself from a PC, but I simply didn't have the time or means in this case.. so off I go to the Apple store at Sherway.

Unfortunately, the salesman regretfully informs me that because my Mac is "so old", they only have one of 4 compatible video cards in stock.  The 2nd most expensive card available..    So, $450 later and of course, having agreed to void the warranty of the card because I wanted to install it myself, here I am up and running.  By the way, the card is an ATi 4870 - 512mb ... street price in PC land is about $120 if you can find it (it's obsolete).

Pain in the a**.. but thankfully my choice wasn't limited to the most expensive of the 4 cards, as that card is in the $2k range in PC-land (or a downpayment on a house if you buy the Mac version)

The price you pay for no viruses, I tell ya..  


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jonny_eh
March 1, 2010, 1:39pm Report to Moderator

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That really does blow. No defence from the peanut gallery here.


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websherpa
March 1, 2010, 7:16pm Report to Moderator

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Oh 4870, yes that is a sad story indeed....  

However, consider this, if you had a PC, the first video card you put in would have died an hour or two into use, you RMA it and get another.  It dies too.  Then someone mentions that either your power supply isn't strong enough or your system is overheating.  OK, so you upgrade the coolers, and RMA another board.  It works great!  Then you get this lame-a** idea (as a PC user) that you MUST overclock the board (afterall it's working so stable now)...  skip back to step one and start over EXCEPT that in the 4 weeks it took you to RMA a couple boards ATI or NVidia has created another 10 generations of video cards which are only incremental improvements of each other, and in the process your original board is now obsolete and impossible to find except on eBay.  And then you realize that the eBay seller might have decided to sell his (soon to fail because he overclocked it) video board....

... the drama can continue on and on....  


Wayne (webSherpa) "WEB"
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OTTOgd
March 1, 2010, 9:29pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from websherpa
Oh 4870, yes that is a sad story indeed....  

However, consider this, if you had a PC, the first video card you put in would have died an hour or two into use, you RMA it and get another.  It dies too.  Then someone mentions that either your power supply isn't strong enough or your system is overheating.  OK, so you upgrade the coolers, and RMA another board.  It works great!  Then you get this lame-a** idea (as a PC user) that you MUST overclock the board (afterall it's working so stable now)...  skip back to step one and start over EXCEPT that in the 4 weeks it took you to RMA a couple boards ATI or NVidia has created another 10 generations of video cards which are only incremental improvements of each other, and in the process your original board is now obsolete and impossible to find except on eBay.  And then you realize that the eBay seller might have decided to sell his (soon to fail because he overclocked it) video board....

... the drama can continue on and on....  


... or you do your research and get great information and opinions from the people on http://www.hardforum.com, visit Infonec and have them put together you solid, well-priced PC to enjoy for many years, not having to dabble in over-clocking, enjoying great software and games well before Mac-Lemmings, and know virus-free surfing with the help of various free/cheap programs.  

  


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machine.slave
March 1, 2010, 9:47pm Report to Moderator

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Well that's an extreme though, Wayne.. I'm an average techie guy, I know my stuff (probably quite a bit less in fact, then I did 10 years ago -- using a Mac has really dumbed me down!), and I'm the type that if I want to upgrade my video card, or heck, HAVE to replace the card then I'd love to just go to my favourite computer store and buy one.. and I love having 20 different cards to choose from.  Unfortunately though as a Mac user that's just not an option.  In my case, I have a choice of 4 cards, all of which are 2 years old.. now to a lot I don't think that'd really be a problem, but as a "power" user I don't see these options as upgrades.  One thing I did notice while looking around at my options, the biggest complaint is that as new software software is released in the A/V and print media world (less so in the latter), the lag becomes much more noticeable which is why a hardware upgrade such as a new, more powerful video card may be necessary.  However because has their hardware so locked down your choices are to spend money on more powerful yet non-current technology, or buy a new Mac all together (this is also why people in the industry rarely buy used Macs).  It's a frustrating business model.. Apple sells some of the most powerful computer equipment on the market, to some of the most straining industries.. but extremely limits its scalability.

People often call Macs "appliances", like a DVD player or a microwave.. and it makes sense.  When it breaks, you're somewhat forced into buying a new one.  With a $60 DVD player or a $100 microwave, that's not much of a problem.. with a $3500 computer though?  You try convincing your boss you need to spend that kinda dough on a new computer after only two years.. especially during a recession!  


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Own
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websherpa
March 2, 2010, 5:25pm Report to Moderator

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Hey, I was a registered Apple Consultant for years, so you could say I am one of the "converted" (i.e. I went DOWN there to PC Hell).

The whole video card thing wouldn't be such a pain if there wasn't so much to choose from!


Wayne (webSherpa) "WEB"
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Tuborg
March 2, 2010, 7:20pm Report to Moderator

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And today on the news it seems Jobs thinks he invented anything to do with a touch screen and a phone as he complains of the HTC Google phone....
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Cobra99
March 2, 2010, 7:34pm Report to Moderator

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i am posting this with my android milestone .


My Collection




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jonny_eh
March 2, 2010, 10:31pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Tuborg
And today on the news it seems Jobs thinks he invented anything to do with a touch screen and a phone as he complains of the HTC Google phone....


The kind of touch screen used in the iphone was quite unique when it came out. It was the first phone with multitouch, glass screen, capacitive sensors, etc.

Patents are dumb when used for trivial and obvious things like Amazon.com's "one click purchase" button. For expensive hardware innovations they're more legit.

Of course, Apple could be full of it. The courts will decide.


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Cobra99
March 3, 2010, 3:27pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from websherpa
The whole video card thing wouldn't be such a pain if there wasn't so much to choose from!


Apple closed systems don't fare well when there is such a big selection.  This is why I WILL NOT ever buy an Apple product.  Same as the IPhone closed system-Not for me.  Cool device that changed the market but to fence people in, and everyone spoons it up like it Jello.  The time of the IPhone is over.  Most phone manufacturers have caught up and the Iphone hasn't changed in 2 years (besides the memory)  It doesn't even support flash....

/rant




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STTNG

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machine.slave
March 3, 2010, 3:37pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Cobra99
Most phone manufacturers have caught up and the Iphone hasn't changed in 2 years (besides the memory)  It doesn't even support flash....


In a way, the iPhone was behind in a few regards.. (ie. a camera)

Touch screens aren't new.. Palm and Motorola has been using them for years (long before the iPhone)

Don't get me wrong, iPhones are pretty slick.. I just wish they'd make one with a slide-out keyboard.


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THAT WAS EASY!

Own
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Gone
Fairy, Secret Service, Meteor x3, Title Fight, Eight Ball Deluxe, Bone Busters Inc., Seawitch, Starship Troopers, Strange Science, Arena, Hook, Pin*Bot x2, Time Warp, Motordome, Robocop, Black hole, Jurassic Park  , Wipe-Out, Pinball Pro: Challenger I, Swords of Fury, Stargate, Party Zone
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Tuborg
March 3, 2010, 5:06pm Report to Moderator

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A good read is this:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-vs-htc-a-patent-breakdown/

I doubt Apple invented all these.   Who can afford to submit patents grossly outweighs who invented the concept.  

Most of these high-tech patents are just changing nouns from patents 20-50 years old "Granted in 1999, this patent is surprisingly broad -- it flatly covers managing power in a digital camera device to a power manager that sends state information to a processor controlling the camera.".

A good read is this:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-vs-htc-a-patent-breakdown/

For example, this patent was commercially in use in the late 90's.  Nortel had a mobile phone that turned on/off the speakerphone based on the proximity sensor sensing when it was near your ear.  Maybe Nortel should sue Apple.  (And yes, the one remaining entity of Nortel will be the lawyers trying to milk the patents).
Quoted Text
Patent #7,633,076: Automated Response To And Sensing Of User Activity In Portable Devices

This was issued in October of 2009, and it's really quite specific: it covers a phone with multitouch input, a proximity sensor, and an ambient light sensor, which allows input when the sensors indicate one condition and doesn't allow input in others. In simple terms? It's how the iPhone shuts off the touchscreen when you hold it to your ear, a scenario that's specifically called out in the claims.




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