Quoted from JD3

this TZ has one of the most quietest clocks i have seen.

hey you're right ... forgot about that one.


NO OIL.
EVER IN A PINBALL  !!

got LEDs in it.

Quoted from ALJO

Why??? Has it been oiled?? No but really, why?

Because he never turns it on.

Quoted Text

I've had it for 7 years, and play about 10 games a year so time to move on with life.

If I count well, that makes $50/game. Talk about inflation...

Soooooo, what's replacing TZ?

Quoted from ALJO

Sorry, but leds do not make the clock quieter. I have leds in my clock and it is as noisy as it gets.

OILS DOES MIRACLES!! in a pinball, you should try before judging.

What the heck are you using oil on?

Why?

Quoted from ALJO

First I want too add that you do not use just any oil when doing what I do, you use an oil that will leave no gummy residue, an oil that completely dries in 1 to 2 years.

I oil the coil plungers, I've done this for years and if you use the right stuff, the coils stay nice and clean. I know what everyone says, NEVER OIL THE COILS! but I've tried it (one drop is enough) and it works great.

Quoted from ALJO

First I want too add that you do not use just any oil when doing what I do, you use an oil that will leave no gummy residue, an oil that completely dries in 1 to 2 years.

I oil the coil plungers, I've done this for years and if you use the right stuff, the coils stay nice and clean. I know what everyone says, NEVER OIL THE COILS! but I've tried it (one drop is enough) and it works great.

I'm on pins and needles, which oil are you referring to?

I've used oil in the past as well, used it on my TZ clock gears to make them more quiet.  It is a teflon based oil, you can buy it at Radio Shack, it isn't supposed to attract and trap dust the same way regualr oil does.  I haven't had any problems with using it on my TZ clock.

But I don't think I'd use it on every coil, there is no need.

WOW!!! and here I am buying cases of Castrol 10w40!!!

tartagliag

sorry Claude, I didn't mean to say the LEDs made it quiet, I'm just saying the clock has leds.
no comments on the oil  ( or the castrol ... wonder what you'll end up doing with those now! )
I've made another clock quieter with the teflon ( or 3/1) oil but never as quiet as mine ... it rules

ok stop it .. you'll make me regret it

Quoted from tartagliag

WOW!!! and here I am buying cases of Castrol 10w40!!!

What you do in your bedroom is your own business...  no need to brag ....



Steph

Super Lube (PTFE = Teflon) http://www.super-lube.com/ on metal to metal contact only, like spinners, and kick-out plunger pivot points, and sometimes on plastic to metal like drop targets (where recommended by the manufacturer), and that sort of thing.

I keep waiting for someone knowledgeable to chime in on this thread, but so far no takers, I know a little but not much, what I do Know is that you never put mineral oil on gear plastics, they are almost always nylon (Self lubricating)
oil will attack the vast majority of plastics chemically.
See here for more info-
http://www.devicelink.com/mpb/archive/98/05/001.html
The attached jpg shows some plastic that was cleaned with a mineral based solvent.
Also- I think we have all seen acrylic plastic glasses and dishes after they have been exposed to harsh detergents.
It's just a matter of time before all the gears in that nice quiet TZ clock are completely destroyed and it fails.
Take it apart and rinse all of that oil off ASAP, while it still works.
Tim

that poor BBB plastic..  

Quoted from ALJO

Sorry, but leds do not make the clock quieter. I have leds in my clock and it is as noisy as it gets.

OILS DOES MIRACLES!! in a pinball, you should try before judging.

Claude, there is a shitload on info on this on RGP. Oil is for metal on metal, period. Never to be used on any coils, even with aluminum sleeves.

And some teflon lubes are not mineral based, thus safe to use. But even then, problem is that as oil lubes, it also traps any metal dust and dirt there, and soon enough you end up with a big mess.

Listen to AlienAgent... he is dead-on. Never use oil. The pins ran for years without oil, so they don't need it. Just clean all the parts thoroughly. AND DON'T USE CONTACT CLEANER TO DO SO!!!

Quoted from Sparky

Claude, there is a shitload on info on this on RGP. Oil is for metal on metal, period. Never to be used on any coils, even with aluminum sleeves.

And some teflon lubes are not mineral based, thus safe to use. But even then, problem is that as oil lubes, it also traps any metal dust and dirt there, and soon enough you end up with a big mess.

Listen to AlienAgent... he is dead-on. Never use oil. The pins ran for years without oil, so they don't need it. Just clean all the parts thoroughly. AND DON'T USE CONTACT CLEANER TO DO SO!!!

When the oil dries, anything that "could" of stuck to it, goes away. I've done this for years and never had the slightest problem.

My grandfather use banana and butter to replace oil engine, this works great for many years !!

Ian, how did you react to the guy that said quote " there is no way in hell that this PF will clean up", you tried anyway and you are so happy with the results that you posted them on MAACA, well, I did exactly like you, I don't care what other people say, I tried, I am happy with the results and I want to share this with other MAACA members too.  One more time, you don't just use any oil to do this though.

"Gummy coils" that RGP are talking about are the results of someone who has not used the right product.

Quoted from HAL-9OOO

My grandfather use banana and butter to replace oil engine, this works great for many years !!

Did you try it on coils???

Interesting discussion!
To each their own I guess.

However, I only use oil in pinball machines in metal to metal pivots.
After repairing & shopping 100s of games and seen/fixed too many hacks
over the years, I can honestly say that oil previously used on coil plungers,
WD40 used on EM steppers, or contact cleaner used in EM relays, only create
problems later down the road, and even attracts more dirt, making any future
repair or shop work more tedious, and often requiring more parts to be replaced.
Plus, it probably depreciates the value of the machine, as it does not look clean
inside, and often makes the operation of coils/plungers sluggish (over time).

Here's what Clay Harrel has to say about oil in a pinball machine
http://www.pinrepair.com/bally/index1.htm

"Pinball machines, for the most part, do not require any lubrication. Most parts run "dry". Far more damage can be done to a pinball machine by over-lubricating, than by under-lubricating. As a rule, if in doubt as to lubrication, don't do it! Throw that WD-40 away, it won't be used here.
The only parts that will require any lubrication are metal-to-metal moving parts. There aren't very many in a game. Only ball eject and slingshot hinges. 3-in-1 oil also works on these if needed. But try and keep that lubrication in the tool box and away from the game.

If some prior person did lubricate the game, the lubrication has probably now congealed with the infamous "black pinball dust" to form a thick, black mess. This is unrepairable on coil sleeves, and new parts will need to be installed."


Cheers,
- Sylvain.

The problem here is that we are seeing and describing the effect of "ancient" organic technology lubricants that are subject to breakdown over time, solidifying, and readily pick-up dust.  Newer synthetic lubricants are less subject to this, and some, like teflon based DRI-LUBE lubricants resist "gumming" and dust pick-up because the lubricant is not "suspended" in a thick silicone or grease base.  Even silicon base lubricants are more resistant to guming and dust pick-up. Top that with the fact that home use machines see an aweful lot less use, which results in less "black soot" (carbon arcing).

Oiling coil sleeves is largely unnecessary because new sleeves quickly "self-lubricate" as the plunger slightly abrades against the sleeve and releases minute metal particles which act to lubricate the sleeve much like graphite (its possible that the carbon arcing soot is drawn in there too and also acts like a lubricant if it stays "dry").  Eventually the sleeve itself breaks down due to wear caused when the coil heats up, the plastic sleeve expands and contracts, and the plunger scrapes too hard on it, causing the plunging action to be impeded.

A good experiment might be to replace the sleeves on two flippers and put graphite into the sleeve of one of them and see if it has the same effect that ALJO describes as "oiling" (lubricating) the coil sleeve.  Perhaps what ALJO describes is a "dry" lubricant without a significant suspension base (or a fast drying one).

One thing I have learned is to "never say never".

Quoted from websherpa

The problem here is that we are seeing and describing the effect of "ancient" organic technology lubricants that are subject to breakdown over time, solidifying, and readily pick-up dust.  Newer synthetic lubricants are less subject to this, and some, like teflon based DRI-LUBE lubricants resist "gumming" and dust pick-up because the lubricant is not "suspended" in a thick silicone or grease base.  Even silicon base lubricants are more resistant to guming and dust pick-up. Top that with the fact that home use machines see an aweful lot less use, which results in less "black soot" (carbon arcing).

Oiling coil sleeves is largely unnecessary because new sleeves quickly "self-lubricate" as the plunger slightly abrades against the sleeve and releases minute metal particles which act to lubricate the sleeve much like graphite (its possible that the carbon arcing soot is drawn in there too and also acts like a lubricant if it stays "dry").  Eventually the sleeve itself breaks down due to wear caused when the coil heats up, the plastic sleeve expands and contracts, and the plunger scrapes too hard on it, causing the plunging action to be impeded.

A good experiment might be to replace the sleeves on two flippers and put graphite into the sleeve of one of them and see if it has the same effect that ALJO describes as "oiling" (lubricating) the coil sleeve.  Perhaps what ALJO describes is a "dry" lubricant without a significant suspension base (or a fast drying one).

One thing I have learned is to "never say never".

I could'nt of explained better.