Quoted from Sparky

Then pardon my brashness, but why the hell are idiots paying in excess of 3500 for an IJ if it isn't all that??? another perfect example of overinflated prices simply due to pinball social status...

Yup collectability = $$$$ not necessarily playability. I've never understood why IJ and TAF command the money that they do (especially since Mr Niceguy kicked my a$$ at the last TOPL tournament on IJ) but then again it comes down to what you like

Quoted from Monkeybug

As opposed to $4500+ for a GNR?  

In that context, IJ seems like a steal!

I guess I'd say GNR is alot more enjoyable to play than IJ so at the same $$$ value I'd take GNR in a heartbeat

I do believe Gn'R is more unique in that it a band based game and the only one that the band provided the music for. There are many licensed movie/tv themed games, some true to the theme; some good themes and some really shitty ones. The fact remains this tv/movie type license is common place, especiallly in todays new pin market.

Re-releasing an IJ by Stern I think to some extent hurt the IJ pinballs allure in that it no longer was "the" IJ pin, however dull that new release may be.

On Gn'R you do have to play the modes to get a good score. It is as lucritive as the multiball so once started you do want to play the mode. They made it easy to start modes and more difficult to play the mode vice difficult to start the mode and pointless to play it.

Next debate Popeye vs Raven.

Quoted from SquidVicious

Yup collectability = $$$$ not necessarily playability. I've never understood why IJ and TAF command the money that they do (especially since Mr Niceguy kicked my a$$ at the last TOPL tournament on IJ) but then again it comes down to what you like

Thanks Dan for bringing the discussion back to the actual pinball machine rather than continuing the debate over whether Dizzy  ( whoever that is ) was actually the 6th or 6.5th or 6.8th member to join the band.  I was about to tell all you guys to get a room !  

Also, thanks for mentioning your butt kicking on IJ.  Trust me, it doesn't happen very often so its nice to get some props when it does !

I'll take up the IJ Flag.

I find IJ to be a way better game for a number of reason.

Theme integration, the voice calls and theme integration on IJ is one of the best, it fits very well with the movie and the dot animations are great as well.

Modes, the variety of modes means you never have the same game twice, and all the modes are very varied and different which I find adds quite a bit of variety.  Also IJ has 3 of the best video modes in all of pinball.

Multiballs, the multiballs in IJ are all very fun, the main one is a little easy to achieve but harder to do well in.  I love the idea of locking balls to raise the overall value of the jackpot.  I also like that Ij has physical locks rather then virtual ones.  The feed from the idol to the flipper is also very nice and well done.  The well of souls multiball is a frantic 6 or 7 ball multiball which is great and the captiva ball 2 ball multiball is a chalenging multiball as well

Toys, IJ has some of the best toys in pinball as well, the POA is a great toy and very well integrated into the machine with a nice variety of using it between modes and on it's own.  As mentioned earlier the physical lock mechanism is very cool and then something as simple as the narrow escape just adds another layer of fun to the game.  

I really like playing IJ and look forward to getting mine up and running.  I find with GnR the modes are lack luster the multiballs are the same old, same old and it's crappy attempt to incorporate magnets into play is just pathetic and honestly quite stupid, why the hell are the magnets even there??  I mean at least in TAF it made sense for the magnets to be there, in GnR there is no real point other then to copy TAF and then they did a shitty job if implementing it.  

The only inspired piece that I like on GnR is the ability to double your mode bonus by hitting the inner loop, but I have yet to find a single GnR where that shot flows well.  I find the overall flow on GnR very clunky and not that enjoyable.  

The only thing GnR really has going for it is theme and sound, the price tag on the machine made sense when it was sub 3K the crazzies turning down $4500 and paying over $3K for it are just that crazies.  

Quoted from Bally Boy

and Paul Stanley was the starchild....... not Ace. Ha, ha..

Doh!!! You are right. How the hell could I goof up Space Ace....but you know what I mean

Quoted from Bally Boy

Truth be told I didn't really like them that much in the day.... but Appetite for Destruction was/is an awesome album, it's hard to dispute that. I've come around to that fact.

I guess that's where we differing...I was a fan back in the day and LOVED AFD, plus Use Your Illusion I & II. I saw them during the UYI tour and it was great.

BTW, Mr Niceguy.... !

Duane

I remember too when IJ could be picked up for $2500. In fact I know of one that went for $1500. It's probably the same argument for most any game that has risen in value over the last few years. Why did some go up far greater than others. IJ I am sure is a very fine game. People tend to get highly critical when games get pricey. Just look at all the verbal beating MM gets. If you could buy one for $2000 bucks people would be telling you the sky's had parted and God himself created the game.

Quoted from necro_nemesis

I remember too when IJ could be picked up for $2500. In fact I know of one that went for $1500. It's probably the same argument for most any game that has risen in value over the last few years. Why did some go up far greater than others. IJ I am sure is a very fine game. People tend to get highly critical when games get pricey. Just look at all the verbal beating MM gets. If you could buy one for $2000 bucks people would be telling you the sky's had parted and God himself created the game.

For some maybe it's the dollar figure .. for me it's based on what I find enjoyable to play LOTR>GNR>IJ. Same goes for titles my CV that I find very enjoyable or NF which I also really like but then again budget does come into it in some ways as I'd like a MM but would rather have CV + NF (and maybe have a few bucks in my pocket). Another comaprison for me is I like TZ but don't like TAF (basically same price and similar designs but one I find fun and the other not so much.

Quoted from necro_nemesis

I remember too when IJ could be picked up for $2500. In fact I know of one that went for $1500. It's probably the same argument for most any game that has risen in value over the last few years. Why did some go up far greater than others. IJ I am sure is a very fine game. People tend to get highly critical when games get pricey. Just look at all the verbal beating MM gets. If you could buy one for $2000 bucks people would be telling you the sky's had parted and God himself created the game.

Hell, I remember when GnR was a $1,600 game and that seemed about right to me. $3,000 plus for the game just doesn't work for me, but I understand the price is determined by the market.

Duane

Quoted from TwilightZone

Hell, I remember when GnR was a $1,600 game and that seemed about right to me. $3,000 plus for the game just doesn't work for me, but I understand the price is determined by the market.

Duane

Prices were different when it looked like pinball had a bright future. Wait 4 months and Williams was going to bring out the next best thing in pinball. The writing is on the wall to say that we pretty much have what we have, so pick and choose wisely from what is out there and be prepared to pay for it.

Thankfully the restoration market for parts has improved immensly for some machines. Therein lies one of the other issues with Gn'R value. You have to be willing to pay for a reasonable condition one because restoration is out of the question with whats out there for parts.

Oh yeah Duane you should have bought three... and I should have bought a dozen NIB MM's and CC's.

IJ sucks. GNR sucks. Classic Sterns rock, and for the money you will spend on either one of these two pins, you can end up with a complete arcade.

'nuff said.

This being said, it is to pint out the lack of seriousness of this debate. It is more fun than serious, kind of like the Deathmatches. It comes down to personal tastes which cannot be debated.

Case in point? I rather own a Genesis than an IJ or GNR, and no one can convince me otherwise. Both are OK but both are ridiculously overpriced because of the theme. Buy a BSD instead... they are cheap due to a dated theme, but the game rocks and has nice toys on it.

Quoted from Sparky

Buy a BSD instead... they are cheap due to a dated theme, but the game rocks and has nice toys on it.

Or buy both like I did