I hope I am not the only one pissed off about the Quebec budget. Jesus... Quebec spending is 16 BILLION DOLLARS MORE THAN IN ONTARIO!!!  WTF!!!! Can someone explain this to me???

And before any of you blame the Liberals, keep in mind that a lot of the deficit was there when the PQ was in power.

Hmm... I should start looking for land near the border...

I move to Gatineau in less than 2 months

Quoted from Sparky

I hope I am not the only one pissed off about the Quebec budget. Jesus... Quebec spending is 16 BILLION DOLLARS MORE THAN IN ONTARIO!!!  WTF!!!! Can someone explain this to me???

And before any of you blame the Liberals, keep in mind that a lot of the deficit was there when the PQ was in power.

Hmm... I should start looking for land near the border...

This would make for a nice long conversation over a couple of beer........but it did not happen overnight and it will be tough to get out of it.  Quebecers will have to make tough decisions if they want to get out of it.  It's no one's fault but who will be the man or woman to fix it?

I am afraid it is not that much better in Ontario anymore.

We went from a Have to a Have-Not province, under 'careful' guidance from Liberal Mr.McGuinty.
Breaking promises since the first day he is into office. Spending like there is no tomorrow.

Health tax was introduced a few years ago. Long waits in hospitals.
Over 1 B lost with the eHealth scandal.
Harmonized Sales tax coming-up, where we will pay the provincial sales tax
on a lot of items which used to be exempt, starting in July...
Plus lots of waste at federal and municipal levels too.

Don't get me wrong, we live in a great place, and the tax system is needed to support
all kinds of useful programs including our health system and our safety net.

However, I am disgusted with the no accomptability and the waste at all levels...

Cheers,
- Sylvain.

Not really a great place for political discussion, McGuinty's Liberals didn't do the damage by themselves, Harris f*ck'ed Ontario up pretty good on his own - we would have been better of with a Liberal continuity I think (but who knows).  Our town is still reeling form Amalgamation.  And the recession pretty much made any chance of recovery zero to none.  HST is a huge mistake, it will plunge us further into a recession.  The alternative, though, is a dictatorship, so take your pick of evils.  We still live a lot better than Europeans and Americans.

This is what we get for having an entity run by lawyers. Take any company and have it run by lawyers, and it is guaranteed to go bankrupt within months. And THIS comes from one of my buddies... who is a lawyer.

BUT... we are just going to take it right in the keester and just lightly complain about it just like every other Quebecker. we truly are all bark and no bite when it comes to dealing with the government. All we will do is vote PQ at the next election and the same crap will happen with them as well.

Then people wonder why the voting percentage is almost under 50%.

I should do like Peter Griffin and declare my own country.

Welcome to the Republic of Sparkistan.  

Quoted from sylvain

We went from a Have to a Have-Not province, under 'careful' guidance from Liberal Mr.McGuinty.
Breaking promises since the first day he is into office.

100% agree with you!!! I hope we, as voters, remember all the broken promises and the damn HST come election time.

Duane

Quoted from Sparky

I hope I am not the only one pissed off about the Quebec budget. Jesus... Quebec spending is 16 BILLION DOLLARS MORE THAN IN ONTARIO!!!  WTF!!!! Can someone explain this to me???

And before any of you blame the Liberals, keep in mind that a lot of the deficit was there when the PQ was in power.

Hmm... I should start looking for land near the border...

Well Liberals can make all the decision they want, they have no real opposition! PQ and ADQ aren't near to take the lead (anyway they wouldn't change anything, used to be member of PQ and active in the party but I quited when I see they had no real vision).

And peoples can complain all they want, but when more than half the population didn't vote and nobody really protest in the street, government can do all they want the way they want!

I'm moving to QC just for the health care benefits!    ... that is, I would.. if it weren't for all the damn French people  

(Donning my flame retardant suit)

CANADIAN POLITICS SUCKS!



Scandals, spending and crap.

The liberals had all the plans to make things "work right" and when they got in, they realized that the conservatives had effed them hard with their own budget shortfalls adding up.  Amalgamation closed lots of hospitals, thus longer waits.  McGuinty tried to "fix" things, but his idea of fixing isn't all that great, and its gotten worse.  I agree he got the short end of the stick when he got the job, but he's had it for a while and things aren't getting "better"

I don't know much about how the quebec political machine works, but here in Ontario it is broken.  Toronto wants its fair share, being ontarios "economic engine" and in some cases that is right.  but outlying communites are getting the shaft as well, and don't even get me started about Northern Ontario.  THey get so little say in how things go at queen's park, that forming a seperate province is always being proposed... and i can't disagree with them.  Northerners are pissed at the south, small towns in the south are pissed at Toronto, and Toronto feels unloved and underfunded and wants to form it's own city-province as well!!!!

Now i am pretty left leaning socially, but about center when it comes to my finances.  and there are other parties that i think serve my thoughts better than liberals or conservatives, but they WILL NEVER WIN.  EVER.

Alternative parties are the rallying point for young and idealistic people. but younger people in general turn out very poorly at the polls.  End result being that "Gray Power" tends to vote in the politicians that win.I can probably count on one hand the friends of mine who regularly vote in electrions. and i have a lot of friends. just most of them  say "politicians are all the same... meh" and stay home on voting day.

Things will change, but it takes a long long long time, which i guess is a "safety" built into the political machine. unfortunately, that long gestation time of political change means that debts tend to pile up, and nobody gets enough time to make the changes they think will help us out of our rut.

(Removing flame retardant helmet)

Is it safe now?

Well gentlemen, you make some strong points but I don't see anyone bringing solutions forward.  Beside, I propose to start a national party, we could be the PIN party, I am sure we could fix many problems after all it is hard to do worst. (in my humble opinion)

Keep on playing brothers

We get the government we deserve. I have a friend running for public office (city councillor here in Ottawa) and he's having a hell of a time. He's going door to door and hearing nothing but non-sense from voters. According to him, voters care more about what church he goes to than what his platform is. (He doesn't go to church, he's an atheist) If he doesn't win, I highly doubt he'll put himself through this again. The political process therefore weeds out any smart and talented people since there are much easier and lucrative ways for them to spend their time. All that's left are the egotists and liars.

As for why Quebec spending is greater than Ontario? More social services, obviously. Do you guys enjoy your free day care (that's just one example)? And the federal Liberals want this for the whole country?

Quoted from axe

(Donning my flame retardant suit)

CANADIAN POLITICS SUCKS!



Scandals, spending and crap.

The liberals had all the plans to make things "work right" and when they got in, they realized that the conservatives had effed them hard with their own budget shortfalls adding up.  Amalgamation closed lots of hospitals, thus longer waits.  McGuinty tried to "fix" things, but his idea of fixing isn't all that great, and its gotten worse.  I agree he got the short end of the stick when he got the job, but he's had it for a while and things aren't getting "better"

I don't know much about how the quebec political machine works, but here in Ontario it is broken.  Toronto wants its fair share, being ontarios "economic engine" and in some cases that is right.  but outlying communites are getting the shaft as well, and don't even get me started about Northern Ontario.  THey get so little say in how things go at queen's park, that forming a seperate province is always being proposed... and i can't disagree with them.  Northerners are pissed at the south, small towns in the south are pissed at Toronto, and Toronto feels unloved and underfunded and wants to form it's own city-province as well!!!!

Now i am pretty left leaning socially, but about center when it comes to my finances.  and there are other parties that i think serve my thoughts better than liberals or conservatives, but they WILL NEVER WIN.  EVER.

Alternative parties are the rallying point for young and idealistic people. but younger people in general turn out very poorly at the polls.  End result being that "Gray Power" tends to vote in the politicians that win.I can probably count on one hand the friends of mine who regularly vote in electrions. and i have a lot of friends. just most of them  say "politicians are all the same... meh" and stay home on voting day.

Things will change, but it takes a long long long time, which i guess is a "safety" built into the political machine. unfortunately, that long gestation time of political change means that debts tend to pile up, and nobody gets enough time to make the changes they think will help us out of our rut.

(Removing flame retardant helmet)

Is it safe now?

Best analysis I have seen. And I agree with you. I have been voting for Smiling Jack and the NDP on the federal level for years, but he has no chance of wining. But EVERYONE says he would make an excellent PM and that he has great ideas... but then those people go vote for Liberal or Conservative just because they have a chance of winning.

You may win an election... but you lose socially.

I vote that we all buy a shitload of lottery tickets when a jackpot is high. And whoever wins in the group has to buy an island somewhere down south, and we create our own state.

Quoted from Sparky

Best analysis I have seen. And I agree with you. I have been voting for Smiling Jack and the NDP on the federal level for years, but he has no chance of wining. But EVERYONE says he would make an excellent PM and that he has great ideas... but then those people go vote for Liberal or Conservative just because they have a chance of winning.

You may win an election... but you lose socially.

Everyone? Not me. I think he'd be a disaster, but that's just my opinion. I don't want to get into a flame war, but I can't have you going around speaking for me

Quoted from jonny_eh

Everyone? Not me. I think he'd be a disaster, but that's just my opinion. I don't want to get into a flame war, but I can't have you going around speaking for me

Right there with your Johnny, no way I want the NDP in power, so EVERYONE does not think the NDP would do a great job.  

Quoted from Vengeance

Right there with your Johnny, no way I want the NDP in power, so EVERYONE does not think the NDP would do a great job.  

Yup .,. I remember when Ray got in here at the prov level ... nope no thanks ... next ...

Quoted from jonny_eh

He's going door to door and hearing nothing but non-sense from voters. According to him, voters care more about what church he goes to than what his platform is. (He doesn't go to church, he's an atheist)

Umm... maybe the residents think he's a Jehovah's Witness or something...they're pretty much the only ones going door to door (that and charities and roof salesmen).  He should have a big button that says "I am NOT affiliated with any church.  So now let's talk politics!"

I think the problem with the Liberals is McGuinty, he was a bad choice.  They've been making bad choices for leaders at both levels (and the other parties not much better).  Political success depends mainly on the charisma of its figurehead.  That's about all voters tend to see.  I just wish that Bob Rae hadn't got shafted when it was his turn at bat.  

Quoted from jonny_eh

Everyone? Not me. I think he'd be a disaster, but that's just my opinion.

OK... then who???? Now THERE lies the problem.

It's like buying from 3 different pinball sellers in the past and having been screwed by all three, but they are the only source of pins even remotely close to you.

what do you do?

Quoted from Sparky

OK... then who???? Now THERE lies the problem.

It's like buying from 3 different pinball sellers in the past and having been screwed by all three, but they are the only source of pins even remotely close to you.

what do you do?

I'm not getting into it because there is no point, debating about politics is like debating DMD over EM, everyone has their own personal view and nothing that will be said here is going to change what anyone thinks, so I say we just leave it at that and move on.  

Quoted from Sparky

OK... then who???? Now THERE lies the problem.

It's like buying from 3 different pinball sellers in the past and having been screwed by all three, but they are the only source of pins even remotely close to you.

what do you do?

Simplified you choose the one that least disgusts you ... for some that will be orange, for others red or blue .. but there is no right answer.

Quoted from Vengeance

I'm not getting into it because there is no point, debating about politics is like debating DMD over EM, everyone has their own personal view and nothing that will be said here is going to change what anyone thinks, so I say we just leave it at that and move on.  

One could say it's like arguing about what goes best on a pizza.

EM for Premiere -  all the way yay!

Our biggest problem its to think in a local way when the real solution is supra-national... example why we don't increase tax on rich people or big corporation ? because an other province or country will come just after you and offer a better deal to stole the business. We got a good example of collusion here in Québec with construction , country should do the same Canada-US-Mexico... government must make treaty about minimum imposition fee and on non concurrence on the tax rate. I believe in concurrence, it really important in our system but let have the fight on the imagination, education, infrastructure field not on the country/region who can suck your c**ck for the cheapest price. That will be a beginning, after that kick the a** of the little friend of the system and bring a real concurrence in the bid process for government contract.

I will be an happy tax payer when this will happen until then i feel rape each 2 week.

I vote Tglover for Premiere.  I am sure he can sell our natural resources and talent abroad for a nice profit and reduce our debt!  

Quoted from jonny_eh

One could say it's like arguing about what goes best on a pizza.

Steak, pepperoni, mushrooms and lots of hot sauce.

(great...w e are setting up for another mindless thread. )

Quoted from websherpa

We still live a lot better than Europeans and Americans.

Huh?  Based on what metric?   European labour laws far exceed any of those our federal or provincial government have.   Their cities are well planned with community atmospheres, and less emphasis on big-box concrete jungles.  

If "a lot better" is based on size of house and amount of chineese gadgets one has in their house, then maybe I'd agree.   But those aren't the metrics I judge living standards by, nor why I would elect a politician.  

Off topic, but related, Hersey's in Smith Falls is an example that made me think over the past years.   Ontario could not provide an environment to make Hersey stay.   Hersey had access to a workforce and excellent dairy, but could not make chocolate in Canada profitably.   Smith Falls is an example where local companies based on labour are leaving the country (forestry, machining, chocolate, ...).   I'm sure there's more examples.   To me, I want the government to change this somehow.   Not sure how, but that's what I'd like.  
  

I always feel sorry for Bob Rae. First Bill Davis...who did a great job until the latter part of his political carreer...leaves a huge pile for David Peterson to clean up.

Which he doesnt. Then poor ol Bob Rae comes in and has a huge mess to clean up, which he spends 4 and a half years doing. Of course he gets no credit for the job hes done because he's still taking crap for the old messes left by previous governments. So they hrow him out of office and Harris gets elected...and guess who makes it look nice and easy with a clean office and no messes to clean up? Harris of course, until eventually all the hard work done by Bob Rae is used up and Harris all of a sudden doesnt look so good.
Long story short, politically, the public has no friggin clue. they vote like sheep and they really dont know the real issues. They vote for their favoutire colour, or if they like the candidates suit. Or they vote foe the same party their father voted for and his father voted for, despite the issues. Massively misinformed people vote for these governments. And its typical.

As far as the Federal liberals are concerned... they missed the boat and should have elected Rae leader. Dion was a horrible choice, Ignatieff...I think I saw him in a Star Trek episode captainning a Romulan warship. Actually I'm starting to like him and hes NOT an easily likeable guy. Still, they missed the boat on the most qualified and intelligent candidate...Bob Rae. But opinions...NOT intelligence, make for votes.

Quoted from Pinballed

Long story short, politically, the public has no friggin clue. they vote like sheep and they really dont know the real issues. They vote for their favoutire colour, or if they like the candidates suit. Or they vote foe the same party their father voted for and his father voted for, despite the issues. Massively misinformed people vote for these governments. And its typical.

Couldn't agree more on that, most people don't have any ideas of the big picture.  When your source is only TV news you can't have a idea of what happenning.  
Also it's hard to have a real debate or simply talk on politic, people get angry very fast and preffered not to talk about it

I hate politics. They dont mix with pinball.

PM to Sparky...

Quoted from Sparky

I should do like Peter Griffin and declare my own country.

Again? mess just when I thought the Cdn dollar was coming back.

Hahaha, fun thread.

lately i have been wanting to buy some land outside the city (maybe near P-boro so i can go and play pinball with McMean and Bish) and build a utilitarian hovel and escape the world.  I doubt any politicians would come to my door if i lived in an off grid Cob house.  I can come back when everything is fixed... think i'll be staying there a LONG time.

Only being in my mid 30's i was a little younger when Bob Rae took over... the only thing anyone ever says about him is "#^%&% Rae days"  I don't remember Rae days ruining my life, but again, i was young and stupid and probably drunk.


I guess its like customer service, nobody remembers the good stuff, just when the waiter forgot you side of gravy.

As far as pizza, i think everyone can agree that it is ALWAYS best with Pesto sauce, sun dried tomato, roasted chicken and a little cheddar cheese on top of the mozzarella.... and that ALL pizza shoiud be thin crust.