So Sparky, I guess I'll be keeping my Stern side rails & coin door..  I'd rather pile up the "junk" than see it get destroyed for the fun of it..  

Mike

I gotta disagree.

I couldn't get over the price of the machine, it seemed and felt like to me anyway he was just fishing for some un-informed person to pay his over inflated price.  

To me it just totally seemed like he was taking a machine at best worth $1000 - $1200 and charging double just to see if he could get it.  I don't agree with that type of buisness pratice.

Ethically I would never do something like that and have never done something like that and personally I couldn't not say something.  His past dealing and his collection may have been great but his actions in his auction and that thread were enough for me to think that were better off with him not around.

IMO

Quoted from Vengeance

... I think the reality is, even if I could use it, I wouldn't drive to Ottawa to get it and it appears you just want to get rid of it so it's not like your going to hold onto if for me, so really in the end do what you want

BUT I would be willing to drive it when I visit you next or drop it off for another collector. And MAACA provides a forum for us to make arrangements that way. I'm heading up to TO for Thanksgiving. I could take small parts and drop them off at Adam's -- not talking a pinball here forks   Honestly, when I saw the Checkpoint playfield, I thought, "Damn that could have been useful to someone. Hell, I would have stored that." Again, not calling Craig out. He's a good guy and we've shared a few laughs. Just keep a perspective when you think about thrashing things. For example, I spent an entire day taking parts from an RX7. The 7 was destined for the trash, but I knew there were good parts on it. I don't need them now, but maybe 10 years from now I'll be damn glad the lady was kind enough to let me at it before it went to the dump.

MAACA has done great things, brought alot of collectors together, we're all helping each other out. All the guys involved deserve to be proud of what has been accomplished. Let's keep going with the positive.

Duane

Quoted from Vengeance

I gotta disagree.

I couldn't get over the price of the machine, it seemed and felt like to me anyway he was just fishing for some un-informed person to pay his over inflated price.  

To me it just totally seemed like he was taking a machine at best worth $1000 - $1200 and charging double just to see if he could get it.  I don't agree with that type of buisness pratice.

I agree with you on the price, but see my very first point. He made a mistake. And my second point who are we to judge him on the price? Maybe it is worth that to someone that HAS to have the EM version of EK. I don't know. I think it was waaaayyy overboard the way that was handled. Yes, it was greed. So what? I would bet $100 that no one would buy it at that price. So who would have gotten hurt? No one. What was accomplished? Nothing, but ill will.

Now, for the folks involved, don't take this the wrong way. I've met most of you and enjoyed a great time at Cooke's last year. Words were exchanged and the situation esculated too quickly. No one is to blame...but we can and should learn from the situation.

I bet if everyone was in a room and not behind a keyboard it would have been handled better. Like I said, I've met a number of MAACA folks and we're all (in general decent folks that occasionally get crazy behind the keyboard  


Duane

I'm with you buddy, I'd have loved to see those things that were destroyed used for something positive, even something smple, like the playfield being used for test touch up's or something.  

But it comes down to effort and time I guess and if your at that point that your willing to completley trash something you most likely past the point where you willing to wait for another day or week or even a few hours for someone to come and take the crap off your hands.

Not saying I agree with the trashing of stuff, just trying to see their point of view.  

Quoted from TwilightZone

BUT I would be willing to drive it when I visit you next or drop it off for another collector. And MAACA provides a forum for us to make arrangements that way. I'm heading up to TO for Thanksgiving. I could take small parts and drop them off at Adam's -- not talking a pinball here forks   Honestly, when I saw the Checkpoint playfield, I thought, "Damn that could have been useful to someone. Hell, I would have stored that." Again, not calling Craig out. He's a good guy and we've shared a few laughs. Just keep a perspective when you think about thrashing things. For example, I spent an entire day taking parts from an RX7. The 7 was destined for the trash, but I knew there were good parts on it. I don't need them now, but maybe 10 years from now I'll be damn glad the lady was kind enough to let me at it before it went to the dump.

MAACA has done great things, brought alot of collectors together, we're all helping each other out. All the guys involved deserve to be proud of what has been accomplished. Let's keep going with the positive.

Duane

Quoted from Vengeance

Call me a liar then

I keep old cracked ramps, old coils, everything, I even have a bag full of old used light bulbs that I keep just in case, I can't think of a single thing I've ever thrown out

But what you do with your own crap is your own porogitive.  When I first saw the stuff being destoryed my initial reaction was, DAM mabye I could have used some of that stuff, but then the more I think the reality is, even if I could use it, I wouldn't drive to Ottawa to get it and it appears you just want to get rid of it so it's not like your going to hold onto if for me, so really in the end do what you want

Adam,

aren't you pretty much in Ottawa already ?

Squid

I'm not going to go much further with this as it much easier to debate this stuff over a beer rather then on a board as things don't allways come across the way you want them to but anyway here goes...

Quoted Text

He made a mistake.

See I don't see it as a mistake, take this as a post from him as an example:

Quoted Text

The reason why I listed it 2000$ was to see if there was interest....if there isnt I will list it at 1300$ and then 1000$.

That line right there to me says he is just looking to get the most money possible instead of trying to get what it's worth.  That to me seems like a dilberate attempt to screw someone out of their money on something that isn't worth what your charging.  

Quoted Text

And my second point who are we to judge him on the price?

Who are we, well nobody really but who better the judge him and his actions then us, his peers.  I'm not saying we are the end all and be all and our word is law or anything but you come to a place like this your bound to be judged at some point for your actions, be they positive or negative, he just happened to be judged at that time on his current negative actions.

Quoted Text

Yes, it was greed. So what? I would bet $100 that no one would buy it at that price. So who would have gotten hurt? No one.

Right no one was hurt, but just because someone didn't buy it doesn't mean I'm going to sit silent either.  I do the same thing in RL, as an example my other hobby as some know is reptiles.  If I'm in a pet store and I see someone looking at an over priced or un healthy animal I will usually step in and say, that thing is overpriced, or that thing is unhealthy, last thing I want is someone to pay for an overpriced animal or an unhealthy animal and be soured on the hobby as a result.  I would much rather that store lose a sale and that person be happy then help allow the crappy pet store to make money as a result.

To me this situation is no diffrent, I saw a crappy over priced product and spoke up and said that isn't right.  

Quoted Text

What was accomplished? Nothing

I wouldn't say nothing, mabye he'll put more thought into his next auction, mabye this will help someone make a more infomred decision, who knows what was accomplished or might be accomplished in the future as a result of that thread, mabye it will be negative but at least something was done which is better then nothing.

Anyway, I think the horse is sufficently dead

Yea I saw on Monday at my place you were still to scared to make it past the end of the 404 for fear of Polar bears and Ice Storms mabye one day you'll brave the artic North past the 404 so you can play a decent collection of pinballs

Quoted from SquidVicious

Adam,

aren't you pretty much in Ottawa already ?

Squid

Quoted from TwilightZone

"Damn that could have been useful to someone. Hell, I would have stored that." Again, not calling Craig out. He's a good guy and we've shared a few laughs. Just keep a perspective when you think about thrashing things. For example, I spent an entire day taking parts from an RX7.

Duane

Sok Duane, in fact you're quite right imho. Saving a playfield is the "logical" thing to do, destroying a complete playfield (with a complete set of nice plastics still attached)  and working boards like I did, is an "emotional" thing to do

I've shelled out for truck rentals "just" to go and get cabs that were about to be tossed, not because I needed 10 cabs instead of 9, lol, but because I thought I could save it or make something out of it,  and also prevent a few more metric tonnes of trash from poisoning the earth as a bonus. And we all know, there's no "money" in rebuilding a gutted cab, there just isn't.  

I removed, took pictures of, listed and sold playfield "wood" guards ( for 2 bucks) and shipped them to Pennsylvania just so I didn't have to toss them, not because I wanted 2 bucks, lol. I've taken apart playfields and arcade parts piece by piece and parted out lots of 150-200 hardware pieces "just" so they wouldn't go in the trash, not because I needed $20 for them.....we've all done the same I'm sure, or we have the "freebie" fridays...which I think is awesome, re-use, recycle!

Man, I've  had stuff posted for "free, just cover the shipping"....and have had schmucks from ONTARIO e-mail me and ask "how much" shipping would be, lol...Or for some ill-informed neanderthal who's never done a complete resto to give me lip about why the price of a cab I'm taking a loss on is "so high" lmao.

And it's not the "first" fellow collector that sends you into orbit and go ballistic, it's the 1000th, and last week was my 1000th customer.

Quoted from Teamatomics

And it's not the "first" fellow collector that sends you into orbit and go ballistic, it's the 1000th, and last week was my 1000th customer.

I hear you, Craig. We've all been there. I did a bulk buy...once...just once...and that was enough for me. In order to get what I wanted, the op wanted me to clear a load of crap out of his place. In the end it was worth it, but I had to sell cabs and crap for less than I paid. Sucked big time. Especially since I was storing the stuff and had all the usual questions -- like I'm sure you did. Took me an entire day to get all the stuff out. Of course, we had wet rain and snow that day. Of course, the damn U-haul we rented had bald tires. Of course, the place was in the middle of the country. Well, you get the idea. We started at 8 am and we were unloading crap until midnight at my office. That was years ago. Fun times  

Just phone me before you take a lighter to that Bagman project. I'm so full of stuff, but it would be a real shame to ruin that one.

Duane

Did I mention that the playfield I gently scrapped was a dead Phoenix playfield on which I practiced touch-ups and clearcoating products? I seem to be labeled as a premature destroyer of parts, but considering I have 16 other spare pfs laying around, there is so many playfields you can hang on your wall...

I did consider making my suspended ceiling in my basement with the playfields, but 1- too heavy and 2- pfs are not the right size.

At least I used it with good intentions before having fun with it. But sincerely... I just don't get it... Even I know when to try to recycle/fix or when to trash. For example... I had an old arcade game 3 years ago that was completely dead. The bottom was moldy and rotting out, but even then I stripped it and even gave all the hardware parts to friends that needed them. In the end I had a completely empty cab... not even 1 screw left. I smashed it with a sledgehammer and put it to the trash. Does that make me a, as stated, questionable collector?

Case #2, my old Discs of Tron. I never got it working. Even a professional repair guy told me not to waste my time, it was useless to fix. So I painstakingly took ALL the parts off and sold them. Again, I was left with a complete cab with nothing to do with it. I offered it to people left and right. Nobody wanted it, even for free. So I trashed it, but I even kept the sides of the cab which are now at BZM's place so that they can be scanned for future use if anyone needs nice graphics for an EDOT. but I DID TRASH THE CAB. Does that make me a questionnable collector even though I went completely overboard in recuperating every part I could? Jeez... I still have the bloody neon fixtures for the machine, which didn't even get a 2$ bid on Ebay.

See what I am geting at? Of course I understand that someone can use something you have eventually. Problem is that are you willing to hold on to something long enough to have someone maybe want it? I have parts that I have had for 10 years, and have been hauling around every time I move, and bring them to every swap meet I have been to. Even free, nobody wants the parts.

The thing is this... if the part in question is in horrible shape and is really not reusable, is it really worth it holding on to it? Most collectors I know purge their parts every once in a while when stuff piles up...

And before anyone labels me as a true gamekiller, please look in the projects section, such as the Atari Football project. The game is still at my place, and I bought more parts for it to bring it back to life than what the game is actually worth. Rough wood, no problem. Moldy falling-apart MDF on a generic cab? Where's that backhoe...  

Quoted from TwilightZone

Now, for the folks involved, don't take this the wrong way. I've met most of you and enjoyed a great time at Cooke's last year. Words were exchanged and the situation esculated too quickly. No one is to blame...but we can and should learn from the situation.

For the record, all I did was post a couple of links and say I thought it was "funny". I didn't see the need to post in the thread beyond that, in spite of the personal attacks. The community will be (and has been) the judge in that case. But, I generally agree with you, Duane; it is a sad day when someone decides to "leave" as it were.

As for destroying things, I'd love to see what happens when a water-logged and gutted cabinet takes a flying leap off a tall building.