I don't usually rant like this but right now I'm pissed.

I put my WCS up for sale/trade a while ago and received several interesting offers.  One caught my eye as it contained exactly what I was looking for.  Problem was location, just too far away to make it worth the trip and the guy has no time to deliver even part of way.  While I am thinking it over, I get an update to that offer that changed my mind.  He sweetened the pot and now it made sense to me.

Decisions, decisions... do I rent a van/truck or something else?  That turned out to be too expensive, a truck would have cost me over $450 by the time gas, mileage and rental fees were calculated.  So I investigate other options... how about a trailer hitch?  It's going to be around $350 for the hitch.  I lease the vehicle and will probably not keep it so it's only a 3 year "rental" on the hitch.

I think some more, confirm with the guy that we have a firm deal and I make the decision, get the hitch installed.  This works because the deal makes it easy to swallow the money, plus I can use the hitch over the next 3 years.  $350 later I have a hitch and a uhaul trailer will only run me $20.  

I confirm the date, not an easy task...  the guy sends me 4 days in the next 3 months that he can be available to do this.

All set to go...  or so I thought.

Today I get a message that he wants out.  

I should have know better.  There is a reason I don't mark a "For Sale" as "Sold" until the deal is final.  I went and sunk $350 into nothing.  I know I'll probably use the hitch over the next 3 years now that I have it but the fact is, I would not have it if I thought there was a chance the deal would fall through.  

Another life lesson for me I guess, don't invest money into a deal before it closes.  Not sure how I could do it differently in this case but there you go.

Have a great day.

newf.

Another life lesson - get a hitch that can be bolted on, so that you can remove it, and resell it

But I hear ya. I once drove to Ohio only to have the machine sold under me. Seller confused emails and sold it twice.
He did buy me lunch though..

Not to run salt in an open wound but $350 for a hitch sounds really high, I just had mine put in and I only paid $150 for the install, then another $40 for the ball and the other piece that I forget what it's called.  

For me I get a deposit before I consider the game sold.  No money, no machine.  At least had you gotten $100 deposit you wouldn't be out the total amount of the hitch.

Better luck next time.  

Sorry to hear about this Mike. Like Adam said, I always require a deposit before I consider a game sold. That said, obviously for friends and people I know I make an exception. In your case, I would have asked for $350. Sucks to hear that now, but something to consider in the future.

You might also want to consider a bad trader alert...

Duane

Hey Mike, I'd still be interested in that game ( WCS ), but I'd have to outright buy it as all my trades are LONG gone....

PM me if you're still looking to get rid of it..

$350 is the cheapest I could find!  Actually, it was a little more than that when you put in taxes.

Hitch - $240 installed
Wiring - $80
Ball - $10

Quoted from Vengeance

Not to run salt in an open wound but $350 for a hitch sounds really high, I just had mine put in and I only paid $150 for the install, then another $40 for the ball and the other piece that I forget what it's called.  

For me I get a deposit before I consider the game sold.  No money, no machine.  At least had you gotten $100 deposit you wouldn't be out the total amount of the hitch.

Better luck next time.  

Quoted from Vengeance

Not to run salt in an open wound but $350 for a hitch sounds really high, I just had mine put in and I only paid $150 for the install, then another $40 for the ball and the other piece that I forget what it's called.  

For me I get a deposit before I consider the game sold.  No money, no machine.  At least had you gotten $100 deposit you wouldn't be out the total amount of the hitch.

Better luck next time.  

"Here, on the street, in competition, a man confronts you and he is the enemy, an enemy deserves NO MERCY"  goodness...lol

"What is wrong with you Johnny?"

Lay off the guy man

Quoted from TwilightZone

You might also want to consider a bad trader alert...

That I don't want to do... I get that sometimes things change and deals fall through.  I'm just pissed cause I sunk money into this one.

Quoted from ALJO

I've had 4 different cars in the past year and got installed a hitch on each and everyone of them.  

Hauling pins seems really hard on cars

Actually if he did it on his hyundai you need a a special ship and wirring for the thing to work.
It expensive.
But thats why i got mine added by the dealer for free.

So who screwed ya? I'd like to avoid them, unless they had a really good excuse. To me, my word is my bond. If I violate my word, I expect my reputation to be tarnished, that's the cost.

Quoted from ethous

Actually if he did it on his hyundai you need a a special ship and wirring for the thing to work.
It expensive.
But thats why i got mine added by the dealer for free.

Exactly.  If I don't buy this one out then I will have a hitch put on by the dealer (for free) on the next one.

What about asking the buyer for partial compensation for the expense you encurred?  It's funny, sales and deals that don't happen "immediately" or where some money changes hands seem to drag on or go south.  I guess that's why, generally, a contract is not truley formed until the goods and/or cash change hands.

Quoted from ethous

Actually if he did it on his hyundai you need a a special ship and wirring for the thing to work.
.

Never heard of that before.

I know neither did I till I had to have the harness changed
It a box with a chip in it

Quoted from 1

Never heard of that before.

Quoted from newf112

$350 is the cheapest I could find!  Actually, it was a little more than that when you put in taxes.

Hitch - $240 installed
Wiring - $80
Ball - $10

WOW! next time you need 12V automotive wiring done, ask me first.  

Quoted from ethous

I know neither did I till I had to have the harness changed
It a box with a chip in it

why not just use a relay of the existing brake and turn signal circuits?

Just to rub dirt in my eye... I get an offer this morning from dr makak for the exact games I had agreed to trade with ancientgames.  Funny huh?

Quoted from newf112

Just to rub dirt in my eye... I get an offer this morning from dr makak for the exact games I had agreed to trade with ancientgames.  Funny huh?

Don't you still have the WCS? Can you not work out the same trade?

Duane

Quoted from TwilightZone

Don't you still have the WCS? Can you not work out the same trade?

Duane

With the guy who made on offer even though ancientgames had marked his deal as "PENDING"?  At the same I marked WCS as "SPOKEN FOR" and announced I was going to ancientgames area to pick up games?  Sorry, this guy knew a deal was in the works and bought them out from under me.  I don't want to do business with a guy like that.

Quoted from newf112

With the guy who made on offer even though ancientgames had marked his deal as "PENDING"?  At the same I marked WCS as "SPOKEN FOR" and announced I was going to ancientgames area to pick up games?  Sorry, this guy knew a deal was in the works and bought them out from under me.  I don't want to do business with a guy like that.

Crap! Didn't realize that. Didn't have my coffee.

That really sucks. Perhaps the guy didn't know? Would seem strange to go forward with a deal, only to trade the games right away? Unless he got a smoking deal and only wanted to flip them.  

Duane

God i hate people like that.
They might as well spit in your face.

Quoted from newf112

With the guy who made on offer even though ancientgames had marked his deal as "PENDING"?  At the same I marked WCS as "SPOKEN FOR" and announced I was going to ancientgames area to pick up games?  Sorry, this guy knew a deal was in the works and bought them out from under me.  I don't want to do business with a guy like that.

Quoted from newf112

Just to rub dirt in my eye... I get an offer this morning from dr makak for the exact games I had agreed to trade with ancientgames.  Funny huh?

AncientGames didn't sell his games to Dr. Makak.  I bought AG's Police Force and Pinbot last night (and only because your deal with AG was a no-go).  It's just a coincidence you've been offered the same games elsewhere.

Mike

I'm pretty sure these are Gerry's old games that Makak(?) bought a little while ago. Check the old For Sale postings as Gerry posted them here. Just coincidence on the games and I remember getting a few pics of some games that Gerry was selling ans they were very nice so probably worth a look.

ME (who's memory is great when it comes to pinballs but nothing else unfortunately )

Quoted from Bish

AncientGames didn't sell his games to Dr. Makak.  I bought AG's Police Force and Pinbot last night (and only because your deal with AG was a no-go).  It's just a coincidence you've been offered the same games elsewhere.

Nice, well my deal with him was a no-go because someone offered him money after I had a deal worked out.  Guess that someone was you.

Have a good day.

Quoted from medvet

Mike

I'm pretty sure these are Gerry's old games that Makak(?) bought a little while ago. Check the old For Sale postings as Gerry posted them here. Just coincidence on the games and I remember getting a few pics of some games that Gerry was selling ans they were very nice so probably worth a look.

ME (who's memory is great when it comes to pinballs but nothing else unfortunately )

In that case I owe dr_makak an apology.  

Sorry about that man, it was easy for me to jump to that conclusion based on the 2 games that were offered but I'm man enough to admit I made a mistake.  I'll send you a PM as a followup.

Mike.

Quoted from Bish

I bought AG's Police Force and Pinbot last night (and only because your deal with AG was a no-go)

Quoted from newf112

Nice, well my deal with him was a no-go because someone offered him money after I had a deal worked out.  Guess that someone was you.

Have a good day.

Just have to stick my big fat nose in here.  Did you read Bish's post?  and only because your deal with AG was a no-go  I know you're bitter, dude, and I'm not trying to change that, but I know Bish well enough to know he absolutely would not snake a pending deal.  

Quoted from newf112

I'm man enough to admit I made a mistake.

Again, here's my big fat nose... don't let a sour deal with one guy make enemies with others.  It's not worth it.

Daniel

Quoted from McMean

Just have to stick my big fat nose in here.  Did you read Bish's post?  and only because your deal with AG was a no-go  I know you're bitter, dude, and I'm not trying to change that, but I know Bish well enough to know he absolutely would not snake a pending deal.  

I know this... the deal went south because someone offered him money.  Now Bish has the games.  

Quoted from McMean

Again, here's my big fat nose... don't let a sour deal with one guy make enemies with others.  It's not worth it.

Daniel

This deal is more than just sour grapes, I lost money on it... $350 is a lot of sour.

I'm done with this conversation.  It's getting out of hand.

Something here just doesn't add up...

(...and as much as I don't want to throw fuel on the fire after
the last few contentious threads we've had, I feel I have to
say something since I know both Mike and Blaine to be great guys
and don't want any misplaced animosity... )

Somehow I think the seller isn't coming clean here ...

Mike's deal went sour on Aug 12th.
Blaine bought the games yesterday ( Aug 24th).

I would like to think that Blaine did indeed negotiate for the games AFTER Aug 12th,
which means the seller probably lied to Mike about having sold the games on Aug 12th

( I can only speculate that the seller had a change of heart
[perhaps wanted cash rather than a trade] ,  but didn't have the balls
to tell Mike, so he made up a story about having sold the games.   It happens.... )

It would be pretty easy to verify...

1- The seller (who's suspiciously quiet on the thread...) can explain his side of the story
2- Bish can explain how and WHEN he talked about the games to the seller...

Like I said, I realize I'm probably fanning the fire here,
but Mike got screwed-over and I don't think Blaine is the bad guy in any way on this,
so I'm just hoping to shed some light on this before more
bad blood is spilled for the wrong reasons...

I'd sure like to hear what the seller has to say...

Then again , maybe I should just get my nose out of other people's business
and go-on merrily saving Humanity from 2084...



Steph

My side of things:

AG and I talked about me seeing his machines either Sunday, Aug 17 or Monday, Aug 18 - [and I'm going by a message I received back from AG where he described the condition of the machines.]  I indicated I was interested in the machines.  AG was clear that he wanted me to see and play the machines before I gave a firm commitment to buy.  I went to AG's last night, cash in hand, and after playing both machines, agreed to purchase them.  I picked up Police Force.  I haven't taken possession of PinBot yet.

I certainly wasn't standing in line on Aug 12th to try and snake newf's deal.  I'm not trying to screw over anyone, and I'm being honest about who got what.

Just so we're clear, AG had already sold LCA to a local buyer when I made my deal.  Newf's original deal couldn't have gone ahead, regardless.

I feel bad for Newf that he invested in a trailer hitch at what was an inconvenient time.  I'm also sorry that he didn't get the pins he wanted.  

I firmly believe that when I bought these two machines there was no other deal pending or in progresss, and unless Newf's intent is to lead all of MAACA in a crusade to boycott AG indefinitely, then I don't feel I've done anything wrong in purchasing them.

I've been sitting on this for a few days now, but it's time to call Bullshit!

Newf:  You have a marginalized understanding of what's going on in this deal.  You have absolutely no facts other than (1) you didn't get the pins you wanted, and then (2)someone else eventually ended up with them.

You've used a shotgun approach to lay blame, using the "Ready, FIRE, Aim" technique.  You hope you find someone to take the fall for your bad luck in the process.  Meanwhile there's a number of people, myself included, that you've made unfounded accusations against.

Quoted from newf112

I'm done with this conversation.  It's getting out of hand.

To top it off, you run off and hide once you're done throwing these accusations around, and refuse to acknowledge what's been said in anyone's defense.

Privately, you've insulted me, and brought my profession and professionalism into question.  If I worked as anything other than a teacher, I know you wouldn't be doing this.  When was the last time you spent more than 5 minutes in a classroom?  Maybe you should come and spend a week in mine before you go shooting your mouth off about it.

I can verify my timeline, as I kept all of my correspondance with the seller.  All of it is datestamped.

One important thing I teach the kids is not to take crap off anyone.  I'm not taking yours.  You're a bully, and the easiest way to take a bully's power away is to stand up to them.

Maybe you should check your facts again with the seller, and get a leash for your tongue.

Quoted from newf112

I'm man enough to admit I made a mistake.

I'm waiting.

Quoted from Bish

I've been sitting on this for a few days now, but it's time to call Bullshit!

Newf:  You have a marginalized understanding of what's going on in this deal.  You have absolutely no facts other than (1) you didn't get the pins you wanted, and then (2)someone else eventually ended up with them.

You've used a shotgun approach to lay blame, using the "Ready, FIRE, Aim" technique.  You hope you find someone to take the fall for your bad luck in the process.  Meanwhile there's a number of people, myself included, that you've made unfounded accusations against.



To top it off, you run off and hide once you're done throwing these accusations around, and refuse to acknowledge what's been said in anyone's defense.

Privately, you've insulted me, and brought my profession and professionalism into question.  If I worked as anything other than a teacher, I know you wouldn't be doing this.  When was the last time you spent more than 5 minutes in a classroom?  Maybe you should come and spend a week in mine before you go shooting your mouth off about it.

I can verify my timeline, as I kept all of my correspondance with the seller.  All of it is datestamped.

One important thing I teach the kids is not to take crap off anyone.  I'm not taking yours.  You're a bully, and the easiest way to take a bully's power away is to stand up to them.

Maybe you should check your facts again with the seller, and get a leash for your tongue.



I'm waiting.

My turn to call BS.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.  I know that AG is at the top of the mess heap here but mess rolls downhill.  He was prodded into his decision to screw me by someone.

Straight up... I don't believe you.  

Even if what you say is true... I thought MAACA was a community.  A community where we look out for and stick up for each other.  At least that's the way I've always thought of it.  Where do you think blacklists come from?  Even if events unfolded as you say (and I don't think they did) you willingly picked up a deal that a fellow member got screwed on (less than a week later) so you could get a good deal.  I wonder if I was someone that you actually knew, a friend and not some anonymous poster on a message board, would you still have done this?  I know I would not, in fact I would not do it to that anonymous poster because they are a part of something I believe in.  Maybe that's just me?  I don't do business with people who f*** over members of my community.  You seem to have no problem with that and that makes me question your ethics and your morals.

If you are waiting for an apology from me you will wait a very long time.  

Ok, I've read through everything and initially was going to let things settle, let you have your rant (i understand) and if my name is mentioned then so be it.   However I have to step in in defence of Bish.  

Bish did not offer me the money until after I cancelled.   Much after.  Yes I did mention to you I had offers once I posted it as pending but only because i thought it was funny that after having them posted for so long without any real offers that it took "pending" to get people motivated.  I likened it to the "chicks want you when your married or dating" situation that we have all experienced at some point.  Don't bash Bish, he isn't involved in this.  The other offers were not serious.   Because of some changes here at home I had to prioratize things and needed the cash.  Not because I received a wopper of an offer or anything like that.  Simply put, selling the WCS in the fall wouldn't have even come close to the amount I needed to raise.  So, I dropped my prices to achive the minimum I needed.  

I'm sorry about the situation with the hitch.  You mentioned you were having one put on but I didn't realize it was solely for this deal.  I assumed it was needed for other things also.  
Your response to me via pm's was understanding and I didn't expect your "rant" post but to each thier own.   I thought 2 weeks notice before our arranged pickup date was enough time for you to cancel any rental you may have booked without penalty.  

If you want more details as to why I backed out then pm me.  Its not something I wish to discuss or have made public.  Trust me, your hitch is a drop in the bucket compaired to my reason.

Mike

Quoted from newf112

Straight up... I don't believe you.  

That's a shame, as it seems I'm RIGHT.

Quoted from newf112

Nice, well my deal with him was a no-go because someone offered him money after I had a deal worked out.  Guess that someone was you.

I guess it wasn't!

Quoted from newf112

If you are waiting for an apology from me you will wait a very long time.  

In light of this new evidence, it seems time has really flown.  I'll be taking that apology now, or are you not man enough anymore?

Wow, I missed alot of posts actually and please, everyone its getting out of hand.  Mike you have every right to be angry but direct it my way.  If you have questions that need answers then ask me first before you assume and lay judgement on people who have nothing to do with the deal or why I backed out of it.  

Put me on the mess pile all you want.  Black list me or whatever you want.  I'm no Mr Anderson or that HyabusaFMW guy.  i have a legit reason which is far more important than the cost of your hitch which again, i had no idea that you were getting it solely for this deal.  

Chill

Quoted from Bish

That's a shame, as it seems I'm RIGHT.



I guess it wasn't!



In light of this new evidence, it seems time has really flown.  I'll be taking that apology now, or are you not man enough anymore?

Your "evidence" is from the guy who screwed me?  An honest and trusting soul huh?  Not good enough.

Let's see...if you count having to buy a $350 trailer hitch, which I'm told you can actually use for...towing a trailer... as being screwed, I suppose you've been exceptionally hard done by.  (You like to say you lost $350 to make the chicks feel sorry for you, but you actually did get something of value for your money).

On the positive side, you did actually sell your WCS...so you're not really out anything there either.  So...the only thing you got "screwed" on is that you didn't end up with the PB and PF pinball machines.

This seems to be a reoccuring theme through all of your messages.  You think that because you didn't get these pins, they should have sat unsold at AG's forever.  You must realize he would have eventually sold them to someone else?  Your view on this is really unrealistic.  Your deal with AG was absolutely stone cold dead by the time I purchased them.

I've maintained my story throughout this. It's now been verified by the seller.  Yet, you're unwilling to consider anything that doesn't fit with your uninformed, personally biased theories.

I'm going to make this easy, and give you two choices.

1)  Put your money where your mouth is.  Come here and buy these pins that you seem to be so hot to get.  You pay me exactly what I paid for them last week from AG, and you can make use of your shiney new trailer hitch.  That way you win all around.  You will have managed to get away with insulting and trying to intimidate half of MAACA, you can justify the purchase of your trailer hitch, and you get the prize.  Good for the ego.  (Bring cash).

2)  Shut the f*** up about this.  You whine louder than my dentist's drill.

Your choice.

Quoted from newf112

Your "evidence" is from the guy who screwed me?  An honest and trusting soul huh?  Not good enough.

Holly f***, Dude I don't know you and you don't know me, and I really don't give 2 shits either way what people think of me...

I DO KNOW Bish and AG; they are both stand up guys, neither would intentionally screw someone (that's my job   )
I really think you need to just F#@*#@# relax, I am sorry you got screwed- seriously I am.
I am VERY sure AG had a VERY good reason; for having to cancel the deal. It happens. we have all been screwed in this hobby it happens, BUT it is jut that a hobby; mess happens get over it, no need to drag someones name through the mud, I mean if I screw your wife sure be pissed post away, but AG has all ready claimed the blame (with a good reason) leave others out of it.

It's between you and him

After re-reading this entire post newf, I do have to apologize
Sorry I missed it the first time reading
you did get screwed























by the guy that charged $350 for a hitch
(B1 self admitted a**hole)

Quoted from Bish

Let's see...if you count having to buy a $350 trailer hitch, which I'm told you can actually use for...towing a trailer... as being screwed, I suppose you've been exceptionally hard done by.  (You like to say you lost $350 to make the chicks feel sorry for you, but you actually did get something of value for your money).

You know nothing of my situation.  It's not money that I had lying around.  I had counted on selling one of the *3* machines that were in the deal to cover the costs.  

Quoted from Bish

On the positive side, you did actually sell your WCS...so you're not really out anything there either.  So...the only thing you got "screwed" on is that you didn't end up with the PB and PF pinball machines.

I had to sell it for far less than what it is worth because of this whole situation, more money out of my pocket.

Quoted from Bish

This seems to be a reoccuring theme through all of your messages.  You think that because you didn't get these pins, they should have sat unsold at AG's forever.  You must realize he would have eventually sold them to someone else?  Your view on this is really unrealistic.  Your deal with AG was absolutely stone cold dead by the time I purchased them.

Thanks for having my back teach.

Quoted from Bish

1)  Put your money where your mouth is.  Come here and buy these pins that you seem to be so hot to get.  You pay me exactly what I paid for them last week from AG, and you can make use of your shiney new trailer hitch.  That way you win all around.  You will have managed to get away with insulting and trying to intimidate half of MAACA, you can justify the purchase of your trailer hitch, and you get the prize.  Good for the ego.  (Bring cash).

Sorry, you're not the kind of guy I want to do business with.

Quoted from Bish

2)  Shut the f*** up about this.  You whine louder than my dentist's drill.[/size]

I tried... this thread was dormant for a while... you brought it up again.

Quoted from newf112

You know nothing of my situation.

Since you fail (refuse) to acknowledge my situation or AG's situation, you'd think turnaround would be fair play.  I know a lot more about your situation than you understand, or are willing to recognize, about this deal.

Quoted from newf112

I had counted on selling one of the *3* machines that were in the deal to cover the costs.  

I didn't buy 3 machines from AG.  Maybe you're more mistaken than you thought.  Here's a plan:  why don't you go on a witch hunt for someone who bought 3 machines from AG.  Maybe there's someone here you haven't wrongly accused yet.

Quoted from newf112

I had to sell it for far less than what it is worth because of this whole situation, more money out of my pocket.

A choice YOU made.  Try growing up and accepting some responsibility for your own actions.

Quoted from newf112

Thanks for having my back teach.

You're right.  I don't have your back, never have, and never will.  I reserve that for people who are kind to me, and deserve it, Nortel guy.  (It just doesn't have the same ring, does it?)

Quoted from newf112

I tried... this thread was dormant for a while... you brought it up again.

Yeah...I think it was the fact I was being publically bashed by you, and privately insulted by you that provoked that response.

Quoted from newf112

Sorry, you're not the kind of guy I want to do business with.

Excellent, you've chosen the "Shut the f*** up" option.  I'm so proud of you.  Given a perfectly viable alternative, you pick a cop-out excuse because you like to wallow in self-pity.  

Quoted from Bish

Excellent, you've chosen the "Shut the f*** up" option.  I'm so proud of you.  Given a perfectly viable alternative, you pick a cop-out excuse because you like to wallow in self-pity.  

Classy to the end.

I know what happened, you know what happened.  I feel screwed and you feel justified.  Nothing is going to change that, it's why I tried to end the thread a while ago.

I know you will respond to this post because you have an incessant need to get the last word in.  Know that I will not respond to this garbage anymore.  

Enjoy the games.

You're missing the point of what option 2 signifies.

Quoted from newf112

I know you will respond to this post because you have an incessant need to get the last word in.  

You're right.  I do. That's what happens when people wrongfully accuse me, then don't have the stones to apologize.  

Like a bad marksman, you keep missing the target.  He's the one saying "Bish had nothing to do with this.  I'm to blame".  (Which must have been a very difficult thing for AG to stand up and take ownership of, BTW).

Quoted from newf112

Enjoy the games.

  

Would you be flattered if I told you I've taped a picture of you over them?

Quoted from newf112

Know that I will not respond to this garbage anymore.

That's probably for the best.  

Have you ever seen a drunk at a wedding, who's about 3 bourbons beyond being really, really drunk?  He's spilly.  He's loud.  He's obnoxious.  He's insultive and vulgar.  He's completely and utterly embarassing himself.  No one really knows who invited him.  

You're only withdrawing now, because you have no possible way of justifying your point.  You're a bully who's been stripped of his power.  No one has stood up to support you over this.  You've voted yourself off the island.

Buh bye.