Do buyers usually make them refundable if a game purchase doesn't work out for whatever reason?

I think it would depend on the size of the deposit...

I someone committed to a purchase, then backed-out,
I would expect to keep some kind of "fee" for my hassles.

If I had to pick a number out of hat,
I'd say 10% of the purchase price, up to $50, is probably fair as a NON-refundable deposit.

(...of course that is at the seller discretion... )

As long as the terms are clear BEFORE any money changes hands.

..but that's just me,
I'm sure many others will have other opinions...  

Steph

yes - unless stated as non returnable a deposit is returnable

Quoted from donnie

yes - unless stated as non returnable a deposit is returnable

I don't agree with that.  The deposit is simply a down payment to secure the purchase, is it not ?  If it is completely refundable, then it offers no protection to the seller whatsoever.  The seller holds the item for you, tells everyone else the item is sold, then you back out and take back your deposit ?  Where does that leave the seller ?

A deposit is a commitment to purchase.  In any contract "consideration" is exchanged between parties. Namely, the seller offers consideration in the form of a product or service. They are then reserving said product or in the case of a service, time and resources required to perform that service.  The buyer is offering consideration in the form of payment. Usually both parties enter into an agreement where the deposit paid and any applicable terms or conditions are pre-agreed upon. In a written contract the deposit may be deemed as partially refundable or non refundable if the purchaser chooses to terminate the transaction as per contract. Further there may be similar penalties imposed for the seller. As it is the seller that usually provides purchase documents, the terms contained within the contract will be designed to protect the seller's interest more so than the buyer's. This is especially the case when an individual is purchasing from a company that uses a formatted contract such as a furniture store, appliance dealer or seller of any large ticket goods or service.

If this is a private sale, I highly suggest you discuss the refundability of the deposit beforehand and both parties sign a paper describing this agreement in plain terms. A copy should be dated and preferably witnessed, and both parties should retain a copy. In some businesses there is a restocking fee charged to the buyer if the product is not accepted and paid in full by a pre-determined time. This is commonly anywhere from 10% to 25% of the purchase amount.

I suggest that to protect one's self, try and leave as reasonably small a deposit as is acceptable by both parties. This way, if need be you can walk away. Also, this will leave the seller with equal if not greater reason to want to complete the transaction versus keeping a hefty deposit for no goods or service provided.

Im just saying it needs stated - pretty sure a verbal or written contract would need non refundable stated to keep the money.

its easy to say "non refundable" or which part of the deposit is non refundable.

I think I read a member (perhaps even sparky  had mentioned something similar about some deposits he had taken - if  my memory is working I recall something to the effect that he felt he SHOULD repay a deposit to a buyer who was pulling out of a build/sale because it was never mentioned that  it was non refundable -  they felt it was the honest thing to do.  I think its probably the legal thing as well.

Quoted from mrniceguy

I don't agree with that.  The deposit is simply a down payment to secure the purchase, is it not ?  If it is completely refundable, then it offers no protection to the seller whatsoever.  The seller holds the item for you, tells everyone else the item is sold, then you back out and take back your deposit ?  Where does that leave the seller ?

My understanding (and I stand or sit to be corrected), in contract law fair value has to change hands both ways for a contract to be valid.  So a person has to receive something of value for a purchase contract to be binding, so in theory a deposit can be expected to be returned if no goods are received.  

So lets say you make a deposit and the seller doesn't deliver.  You get your deposit back.  Let's say you make a deposit, but inspect the goods and they are inadequate or not the value you expected, you can cancel the deal and expect your deposit back.

If you pay a deposit to have someone build something for you, and it is of worthwhile value (you just want to get out of the deal), the maker should have the right to sell the item and then keep back any loss they might have incurred from your deposit.  They can't profit from your misfortune, however.

That's not to say, however, if you have agreed to a penalty, in writing, to forfeit a deposit, it couldn't be considered legal.  Also, if you cause someone financial hardship by renegging on a deal in process, you can potentially be liable for the losses incurred.

But that's jsut my personal layman's paralegal from the side-lines opinion on what I know about contract law in Canada, which is diddly squat, so take it for what its worth.

If I unexpectedly reneg on a deal, I almost always offer some sort of compensation.

I guess I'm lucky I've never run up against it, but I've always assumed in this forum that a deposit was to hold a game and that I was essentially paying for the privilege of pre-owning the game without having paid for it in full.  That privilege has to cost something, which is why the only deposits I've ever paid or taken are small, amounts like $100 which basically says, "if I back out, here is $100 to offset the other lost sales you have had on my account."    

I guess it needs to be verbalized or written, but personally, if someone offers me a deposit to hold a machine and they insist that it be refundable, then there will be no deal.  A refundable deposit is absolutely worthless in my opiinion if that is the case.  

Quoted Text

I guess it needs to be verbalized or written, but personally, if someone offers me a deposit to hold a machine and they insist that it be refundable, then there will be no deal.  A refundable deposit is absolutely worthless in my opiinion if that is the case.

    

Agreed...as a seller I have nothing to protect me from losing out on other potential sales. Also agreed that the deposit shouldn't be any greater amount than I am willing to walk away from.  So if I was selling a $3000. machine and someone offered me $20 to hold it I'd still probably not agree. I still want to know I have some guarantee from the buyer or at least some compensation otherwise.

No offence Wayne, but your philosophy would kill an average proprietorship unless the margins were absolutely phenomenal.  I am self employed in sales, and I would be somewhat devastated if a major deal renegged and had nothing to lose in doing so. It might be no sweat for the buyer to cancel, whereas I might have relied on completing their transaction in order to cover my nut. I had that basic scenario occur a while back where I had put a fair amount of time into a contratct but the buyer's resources were so much greater than mine that I had to let them off the hook versus  possibly losing a legal battle. The purchaser didn't sweat whatsoever, she was the purchaser for a municipality, whereas I had spent time and effort and had some professional services done for this client only to return her full deposit months later because she hadnt done her homework in the first place and had no business making the purchase.

Quoted from mrniceguy

I guess I'm lucky I've never run up against it, but I've always assumed in this forum that a deposit was to hold a game and that I was essentially paying for the privilege of pre-owning the game without having paid for it in full.  That privilege has to cost something, which is why the only deposits I've ever paid or taken are small, amounts like $100 which basically says, "if I back out, here is $100 to offset the other lost sales you have had on my account."    

I guess it needs to be verbalized or written, but personally, if someone offers me a deposit to hold a machine and they insist that it be refundable, then there will be no deal.  A refundable deposit is absolutely worthless in my opiinion if that is the case.  

Agreed ! If i hand out a deposit , it ' s because i want the game . Only did so once so far and with a $300.00 deposit , i would ' ve been a fool to back out ...

I think were all in agreement - however it should be stated as non refundable to avoid problems...no?

Actually, I'm going to defer to wbradley on this one.  Once a deposit is made, it is assumed that a contract is in progress and valid.  Therefore, if the buyer or the seller renegs, either party is entitled to go to court to compel the other to complete the contract and/or receive damages for any loss incurred in the process.

So, if you make a deposit, so long as you are not being swindled, then you must complete the contract.  The seller may accept a mutally agreed form of compensation for allowing the buyer to reneg (i.e. it's another contract they've just made to "not buy" the item).  Usually that compensation is pre-stated, it's the deposit the buyer made in the first place.

If the buyer is reneging because they feel they are being swindled, then they can go to an arbitrator or court to try to prove that the value they would receive is not what they agreed to when making the deposit.  In that case they might be entitled to their deposit back (if the court agrees).  They would be entitled to their deposit back if the seller doesn't deliver the goods as and when promised as well.

There is the possiblity that a valid "mistake" was made by either or both parties.  In that case (and a "mistake" is a moving target at court), there is potential for the refund to be returned.

What I am uncertain about, however, is in the absence of a written or verbal agreement to the contrary, is whether, if the seller then subsequently sells the goods at the same price or better and does not incur a loss, whether the original buyer who reneged is entitled to their deposit back or not.  On the outside of it, if the seller hasn't incurred a loss, then it seems fair that the original buyer shouldn't be penalized for stupidity or the seller make a profit on the original buyer's misfortune. (But that's the Solomon in me thinking.)

So I think, if you have paid or even offered a deposit, then you must be willing to forfeit it if you want to walk away from the deal (unless of course the seller is a nice guy (ahem softy) like Sparky.)

Sorry about my misleading statement earlier.