well i am sick of it.  it happened again.  just glad i didn't get hurt like last time.  

   i bought machines off maaca and they turn out to be real duds compaired to description and promisses.  

    whats wrong with some members?   can't describe things at all.  they hide minor flaws and just ignore the major ones.   why can't people just tell the truth?

   when i sell a machine i tell you the flaws right away.  ask others that have bought from me.  when you come to my shop i tell you the bad features of the games.  that includes if they are just boring no fun games (twilight zone bought my dr. who and i warned him).

   i was in contact with the seller and they promissed to make it better.  said they would send my parts that need to be replaced, i got nothing.  also stated that i would receive a refund.  said i would have it by the end of october.....   well nothing.

   i know other members leave due to how they are treated on the site and words thrown back and forth.  i am not mentioning names (yet).  i didn't do that to jim (he outed himself) when i ended up with that butcher job cftbl.  he resold it for 1/2 of what i was paying and even that buyer didn't keep it cause it wasn't worth it (due to the cost of the repairs).
  
   this time its more money.  i am looking into small claims against the seller.  i am more then sick and tired of their games.  machines are not anywhere near described and not even working.  they buy cheap imports and resell for more.  don't tell you any of the bad stuff at all.  just glad i keep all emails, photos and such.

  i have now purchased almost 200 machines in the past 5yrs.   i have only been really screwed twice before.  so all in all not that bad.  but this is the third and ever time its been with a member of maaca.  

   will post more later.  those of you who know more about this, please do not post any names or titles of machines.   i would like to settle this without outting the bugger.   i just hope he has learned also to tell the truth (doubt it).

  gre-gory

sorry about your luck.the last few games that i bought all f$%^ed up.cp,sttng,ek,who dunnit(seller did tell me)golden eye,street fighter.all needed repair.this makes a person bitter.then sellers(good and bad) get low balled.i hope you feel better after the bad luck that i've had.go get a trick,i mean treat. cheers

pre-arrangements for parts money aside, maybe the seller didn't know any better?  

I'm guilty of this myself somewhat, as I'm still learning what's worth mentioning and what is deemed as typical stuff for a 20 year old machine.  

On the bright side, I've often had good luck. The TAF I got from Paul was in better condition than he described. The universe balances out.

yes.  i too have had great luck with members.

  just that this member knew he was in the wrong.  thats why they offered to give me back some of my payment.   was to be paid by end of month in my hand.  

  nothing here.   i have email and pm him.  no reply.  even though he has posted on the site since.....
    
   it big bucks to me.   i think to him as well.  he used my cash to buy something alot better..   well glad he has a great game...   i am stuck with a (fill in blank)!

  gre-gory

I refused to sell one of my pin because  I didn't feeling right about it, I will never be "successful" in this hobby, I'm trusting people too much and tell too much about my machines

Hello Gory,

I know I'm not a senior into Pinball purchasing / selling, but I traveled so many times to see pinball that I was interested in, that were 8/10 ( average )from the seller point of view, to see that good shape pinball machine for someone is not the same for another person.

8/10 for a seller and 8/10 for me can be really different... only as an exemple...!

I've been into some other hobby and can say that pinball is way different then any other thing. Everything is not into the pinball title itself, but into the look, the condition of the playfield,electronics, cabinet and a lot more, so how come in 2008, there's still some people that will purchase pinball machine without looking at the in person before?

I don't want to tell you what to do or to say that you're wright or wrong, but after going through 200 transaction, you may know this? We can't purchase a pinball machine without looking at it first... In my honest opinion, if I purchase a pinball without seeing it, I assume that it may not be as the seller describes it or I deal the price in consequence that I can't look at it.

Hey Gory, I don't want to start a fight here, this happened and I think no one here can help except you and the buyer. I just want to prevent some other people from having the same ''issue'' again, cause I think we've already had the same conversation with someone who purchased from Jim without seeing the machine...!

My 2 cents only...!

Eric

Hmm... nothing good will come of this Gory. I have heard the story from both sides now. Sad that this happened.

I tell you what Gory... if it can help, and also to the fact that you have helped me out many times in the past (and still are! ), how about I offer this gesture. If the other party offers a compensation, and you accept it, I will do a playfield or cabinet for you.

I hate to see bad blood be posted... you are both nice guys and I believe it is merely a case of lack of experience and slight missunderstanding. Hopefully my gesture can help patch things up a bit and each go their own way after.

PM me and we can discuss it.

Ian

Quoted from Hyann

I refused to sell one of my pin because  I didn't feeling right about it, I will never be "successful" in this hobby, I'm trusting people too much and tell too much about my machines

Yeah, if that was your Meteor project I practically BEGGED for it and you took a million pics and told me every little flaw and then you wouldn't sell it because you were worried.  You ARE too honest!    

PS Let me know if you ever want to move it, because I'd still be interested regardless of how much you don't want me to buy it. ha ha  

Gory, sorry to hear it dude.  For those who haven't had the pleasure of meeting Greg, he's a good guy and certainly doesn't deserve any crap for his continued efforts to grow pinball in Peterborough.  Heck, this guy lets homeless people into his shop to play!    

While I agree that Gory doesn't deserve this, I believe the same goes to the seller. No one likes to sell a game and then find out it has issues when you didn't know about them. Hell, that has even happened to me. You feel like crap then.

Best thing is to just work it out...

Quoted from Rider

So how come in 2008, there's still some people that will purchase pinball machine without looking at the in person before?

I don't want to tell you what to do or to say that you're wright or wrong, but after going through 200 transaction, you may know this? We can't purchase a pinball machine without looking at it first...

Often buying "sight unseen" is the only way you're going to be able to do the deal.  Me personally, I know enough (even with my tender experience)  about how pins of a certain age come, that I very often make deals "sight unseen" and while I am very seldom surprised at how good a deal is, I am never disappointed because I always expect the worst.  

Knowing Gory though, I would expect there is more to it than this. He's bought some pretty rough machines in the past, so I would expect that its more like he suspects the seller misrepresented the pinball and that's a whole different kettle of wax, especially from a MAACA member.  That being said, not all MAACA members are experienced pin restorers.

I bought a HIgh Speed (not that long ago) that a number of guys were offering the seller more than I, and the seller tried to put the squeeze on me, but eventually agreed that my bid was accepted and first.  What he described and what I picked up were two completely different beasts.  But he loved this ratty excuse for a pin, and that's the way he saw it (I think).  Still, if I make a deal, sight unseen, then I may grumble about the net result, but I will still take it without haggling,out of honour, because, I was the one who made the decision to make an offer withouth seeing it first.

P.S. Being the consumate perfectionist I am, I have never received a pin, except for a small handful, that I was completely satisfied with.  The electronics hacks, in particular, are incredible.  

Quoted from Sparky

While I agree that Gory doesn't deserve this, I believe the same goes to the seller. No one likes to sell a game and then find out it has issues when you didn't know about them. Hell, that has even happened to me. You feel like crap then.

I don't know who the seller is.  Gory is adamant that he won't tell anyone...but having gone quickly over one of the machines myself, I find it difficult to believe the seller didn't notice some of these issues.  None are what I'd describe as trivial...most are glaringly obvious - a few are so obvious you wouldn't even have to be into pinball to know "it's not right".

Gory is a great guy.  Regardless if he's a seasoned buyer, or just starting out, he really doesn't deserve this.  

It sounds like there's a tentative agreement on the table.  Why not just suck it up, and complete the transaction?  I know it has to hurt, but working things out is the right thing to do in this case.

My .002.

I am missing something about the point of this thread?  There are complaints that a seller has not corrected a problem and that it has gone so far as legal threats?  So why not mention the seller?  I've always felt that this community is self-policing.  If someone is selling games and not living up to their end of the bargain, wouldn't you want to warn someone else before they wind up in the same spot?

Everyone here has their reputations.  People can pick and choose who they want to deal with and who they want to avoid.  In all my years here, I have only ever had one sour experience.  This is probably due to the fact that most people around here are trustworthy.  And if they are not, it is usually public knowledge.  MAACA (and CGCC), to me, is a community and not a classified web site.  We have craigslist, Kijiji and Mr. Pin for that.

Telling half of the story only leads to speculation and assumptions which is not good.  I think I have an idea of what machines and the sellers but I can't be certain.  Isn't this similar to how the Salem Witch Hunts progressed?

Also, did you inspect the machines before buying them?  What sort of restitution was the seller promising?

I'm not picking sides since I don't know the story.  Nor do I want to pick sides.  I just think that this thread is not really helpful for the MAACA community at large.

Quoted from Bish

It sounds like there's a tentative agreement on the table.  

Yes. I am trying to clarify it a bit.

I am in contact with both parties and I will try to work things out if I can.

I am SOOOOO glad to be out of the buying/selling game...reading this thread it seems that I "screwed" someone else too so all the more reason. I can honestly say that out of the many many machines I bought that likely at least 3 in 4 were not what they were made out to be. Just ask Mike. That of course was the risk I took in buying almost all of them sight unseen thru EBAY, etc.... DEFINITELY what upset me the most was when someone went way over the top talking about how great a machine was and then it turned out to be a big mess, which happened many times. Of course the worst is when you get nothing at all..I'm still chasing $2900 USD from All aspects in NJ and will have to go to court there next month.
For anyone who ever bought a machine from me and wasn't satisfied, I do apologize. I honestly never tried to shaft( or electocute! ). anyone. I can now proudly say that "My name is Jim..I am a Pinball machine Buying addict! I haven't bought a machine in over 5 months". Ironically outside of some issues when I first got it and a few minor ones since, the machine thats needed the least maintenance of the ones I've kept is the JVL standup I got from Gory!!! Hopefully this situation gets settled soon and both sides are happy.

Welcome back Shoeguy!!!

Eric

Quoted from shoeguy

I can now proudly say that "My name is Jim..I am a Pinball machine Buying addict! I haven't bought a machine in over 5 months". Ironically outside of some issues when I first got it and a few minor ones since, the machine thats needed the least maintenance of the ones I've kept is the JVL standup I got from Gory!!! Hopefully this situation gets settled soon and both sides are happy.

  i am glad you are back as well.  never wanted to see you go or any member go....   you and i dealt with the machine i got off you in a ok manner.....   it was resolved and you stood behind your word and took it back even.  well i drove it to the new seller for you.


  as for this seller.  he offered me replacement parts.  one speaker and grill.  due to the one of the machines had a really small one with only one screw holding it.  it was so small and no grill either that wires hang out the bottom.  i fixed it by taping things up alittle.  doesn't look good.  dome for a topper was to be sent to me.  due to the one i have is completly destroyed and was so for awhile.  it was badly glued together on some spots.  

  the seller made claims that one machine was a 10out of 10 pf.  well that one had loads of damage to the pf.  let alone broken, cracked plastics let alone a big chunk missing out of one.  outhole were chewed up.  ramps not even close to descirbed.....  other problems as well.   told that these machines were completly shopped out...  well wrong fuses were one problem that i can fix.  but how the hell can you shopped out a machine with no key for the header????  they sent me a key, but it wasn't right.  i asked and they state that there wasn't a key...  huh?  i have yet to open the machine header to see whats going on back there.....  don't want to drill the lock till all is settled.....
  so beside the parts they agreed to payback money.  they offered me a smaller amount at first.  i replied not enough....  we came a agreement for $750.  their email is below minus member name and machine names.....
   this is it:
"I can trader MACHINE against my MACHINE if you want, it's MEMBER I was sold
I'll send you $ 750 by the end of October."

   i have bought loads of machines site unseen....  if this was off ebay i would have filed against the seller and i would have left neg feedback....  just go ask bob in st. catherines.  this machine was off macca.  so one would think the person would be more of a stand up seller....  others were really interested in these machines.  i bought both....  no haggling or anything.   i paid their asking price outright....  no discounts....  drove a good distance for them but it was one of my meet in the middle pick ups.
  
   sparky has come to me to help sort this out.....   don't know what there is to sort out...   seller agreed to repay me with a timeframe.  i received nothing and he doesn't answer any emails or pm's at all.

   this happening will not stop me from collecting the way i do....  i just did another meet in the middle pick up with another member...  got me a freddy that rocks.  just as described and if it wasn't i sure the seller would be a great person and fix things...  

ALJO sold me bad cats.  told me what was working and what wasnt'.  turn out that there was no voice.  i tried to fix it.  steph even sent me chips for it (free even).  great guy that steph.  i couldn't do it.  aljo was a stand up seller and had me ship the boards out.  all at his expense.  machine is so much better with the voices.

   well thats about it.  i haven't read the new listing or anything.  been busy with halloween stuff and the shop.  plus truck is going in monday for repairs (unexpected).  the cash from the seller would help...  i wouldn't have to sell off a machine to pay for it all...

Well based on the list of pins, your description of the problems makes it easy to figure out it's the Whitewater you are having problems with, now all that's left is to figure out who the seller is.

le vendeur est moi, Gory, comme promis, ton chèque est dans la poste depuis vendredi matin, j'ai respecter ma parole, comme je la respect depuis le début.

Quoted from 603

le vendeur est moi, Gory, comme promis, ton chèque est dans la poste depuis vendredi matin, j'ai respecter ma parole, comme je la respect depuis le début.

For the French Impaired: (Courtesy of AltaVista's BabelFish)

The seller was me. Gory, as promised, your cheque was at the post office Friday morning.  My word, like I have to respect it respect since the beginning.

Guys, may I make a small request?

Please leave this thread alone. I don't want anyone to put fuel in the fire. I am acting as a mediator between both parties to help out. This is one of those cases where emotion got involved. I would hate to see it get real ugly.

I will do my best to fix this so that everyone can just go back to talking shop, playing pins and having fun.

Quoted from Tuborg

Hey Shoeguy,

Have you seen the containers for sale?   A nice way to make up for 5 months of down-time...      

No - welcome back - well I'm at least glad you are reading MAACA!!

Did you say CONTAINERS??????????? Oh Oh..gotta call my sponsor!!!!!!!!!!

Quoted from 603

Cette histoire me lève le coeur au plus haut point, c'est dégeulasse, par respect pour l'être humain, je vais me garder mes commentaires.
Les pins pour moi c'étais un hobby, j'ai jamais fait ça pour fourrer le monde, j'ai jamais refuser une photo à quelqu'un lors d'une vente demander a makak et twilightzone.  Je décroche, mais pins sont à vendre, j'ai des enfants et une femme à m'occuper je doit me garder de l'énergie pour eux. si vous verriez tout les pm et les imails que j'ai reçu dernierement vous comprenderiez.  J'ai un énorme respect pour 99% des membres ici mais d'autres devrais faire un examen de conscience.

Toute offres résonnables sera accepter mais il y a une seul condition, PICK UP ONLY.

J'ai la TZ à JD3, une fishtales, une guns n' roses avec topper et une WCS 94. ma AF est déjà parti.

scuse ti-jacques de te décevoir mais je suis pu capable.   Tu as eu l'occasion de voir les message et je suis sur qu'il va en avoir d'autres

sparky, je te demande d'effacer mon comte à la fin de la semaine le temps que je finisse les deals ( si il y en a qui me font encore confiance)

     Hey man...a word from someone who has gone thru similiar emotions a few times. DON'T sell your stuff!!!  You have what you have for a reason..stay away from the buying and selling for a while and just enjoy playing your machines. Making a rash decision will end up likely being something you'll regret IMO.

Hey Gerry,  Vraiment décu de la tournure des évenements.....  Comme JIM le dit, ne vent pas tes machines sur un coup de tête!!!  

Et Comme mon ami Gérard dit: '' Vive les blocs appartement$ ''

Quoted from shoeguy

Did you say CONTAINERS??????????? Oh Oh..gotta call my sponsor!!!!!!!!!!

Join a pinball league. It will keep you too busy playing to get in trouble.

OK... all seems to end well. An agreement has been reached between both parties. I believe that once the compensation arrives, all will end well.

This being said, here is my advice, if you buy without seeing first, discrepancies can be expected. What is mint for one might be flawed to another, and not everyone are technologically inclined to make a good assessment of a game.

It happens.

That's where we can come in and help when needed.

Quoted from 603

sparky, je te demande d'effacer mon comte à la fin de la semaine le temps que je finisse les deals ( si il y en a qui me font encore confiance)

I rather leave it open and you come back whenever you feel better about it.

Je comprends.