Quoted from ALJO

What do you mean by that?

It means if you want anything from me I'm chargin' your a** off since I don't want to go hunting for decent ones again.

Quoted from TwilightZone

As Adam has pointed out, Whitewater is the most expensive game to mint out. You have to really love the game to go the path of a complete restore. The ramps alone are crazy money. Many collectors do, but it's not for the faint of wallet

I plan on doing it to mine once I get a few more projects out of the way.  The value of Wh20 has been steadily rising and I've seen fully restored ones being posted for sale at the $3500 mark.  People realize the tremendous amount of money it takes to bring these machines back and their value is increasing as a result from what I'm seeing.  

Quoted from TwilightZone

For example, try finding a nice WH20 for under $2K (minor playfield wear, no cabinet fade, no breaks on the ramps, minor plastic breaks) or a nice GetAway for $1,800 (no playfield wear, no cabinet fade). I've been looking and haven't seen them. Yet if you asked the group for prices of these two games, I bet they would say less than the prices I have stated.

Cheers,
Duane

What are you talking about? I had a great WH20 for sale for under $2k 1.5 years ago, it was as you describe here, you came to look at, and you passed on it. Have you changed your criteria in your search?

Quoted from jonny_eh

What are you talking about? I had a great WH20 for sale for under $2k 1.5 years ago, it was as you describe here, you came to look at, and you passed on it. Have you changed your criteria in your search?

You had a decent White Water. I pointed out the issues with your White Water when I looked at it. The ramps had cracks and some breaks if I recall, there was playfield wear in a few areas, I cann't recall if the playfield had stress cracks or not. More than a few plastics were broken. I think some mountains were broken as well -- these bad boys cost money to replace. So no my criteria hasn't changed.

At the time, I told you it was fairly priced at your asking price. I simply stated I wanted a nicer one and was willing to pay the extra $300 or so to get it.

Duane

Quoted from Vengeance

I plan on doing it to mine once I get a few more projects out of the way.  The value of Wh20 has been steadily rising and I've seen fully restored ones being posted for sale at the $3500 mark.  People realize the tremendous amount of money it takes to bring these machines back and their value is increasing as a result from what I'm seeing.  

I haven't really followed restored White Waters, but I do recall seeing some in the last year or so that were fully restored and less than $3K. Perhaps there was a need for money, I'm not sure.

Personally I think it would be more cost effective to buy a restored game than to pay the dollars to restore one. I'm not talking HEP restore. At the end of the day, after you have put the new ramps, new playfield, etc. I think you would have a tough time getting your money back if you ever needed it. White Water is fun, but it's not $3,500 fun in my opinion.

Duane

Quoted from TwilightZone

I haven't really followed restored White Waters, but I do recall seeing some in the last year or so that were fully restored and less than $3K. Perhaps there was a need for money, I'm not sure.

Personally I think it would be more cost effective to buy a restored game than to pay the dollars to restore one. I'm not talking HEP restore. At the end of the day, after you have put the new ramps, new playfield, etc. I think you would have a tough time getting your money back if you ever needed it. White Water is fun, but it's not $3,500 fun in my opinion.

Duane

http://groups.google.ca/group/rec.games.pinball/browse_thread/thread/01a86e2a5ec0211d?hl=en#

Not even fully restored either.  

I've been looking for the last year I'd say for a Wh20 in restored shape for $2500 or less and they don't exist.  The people that are restoring them are holding on to them and if they are selling them they want big money.

I only paid $1200 for my machine, it will need:

Decals - $400
Ramps - $700
Boulders - $400
Pf Work or New PF - $800
I need the Topper Dome - $70

That and the fact that I'm such an anal retentive a**hole when it comes to restores that if someone else did it and I paid that kind of money I'd be picking out flaws left and right I'm sure, that I think I'd rather just do it myself.  

Quoted from necro_nemesis

It means if you want anything from me I'm chargin' your a** off since I don't want to go hunting for decent ones again.

I bought games from you and you were fair, I sell games and I think I'm just beeing fair too.
I'll indeed let you know if I tired of STTNG at 2100$. no problem.

I mean that when you're looking to buy, the prices are always high ... and if you look at what people are willing to pay, it's indeed usually cause THEY OWN that game and think it's worth that much thus won't sell it lower.

When it's time to sell a game, then all of a sudden, everybody thinks they can make 100$ more then they paid the game. That's how The Getaway, a 1200$ game is now selling for 1700$.  Hey that much better for the seller but YOU THE BUYER is the one driving those prices up.  When one person buys a GNR at 4600$, all the GNR owners now value their game at 4600$ !!   YOU TRY TO SELL IT AT THAT PRICE... WHEN YOU GET THE MONEY, only then can you actually say that.

Restoration? in my experience, don't count on somebody to pay more because of it.  you're doing it FOR YOURSELF and nobody else.

and btw, I sold my LOTR 3400$ to a really nice buyer, unseen and no pictures.

...and I bought a beat up BSD for 1200$ and a Roadshow for 1800$

Anything else anyone wants to know?

oh yeah ... Solar Fire is sold for 1800$

I would not like to pay more for a title than what I sold it for previously...

...in other words, the value of some machines from a personal perspective rise/lower based on my own past sales/purchases.   I'm sure its similar for a lot of folks.   The book value is the starting point, then you use your experience to judge what you've seen before and how rare it is and the desire to own one, and you impatience to wait for a better deal.

...i'm also willing to pay a lot more if its local and owned by a "collector"

Quoted from Mrhide

I bought games from you and you were fair, I sell games and I think I'm just beeing fair too.
I'll indeed let you know if I tired of STTNG at 2100$. no problem.

I mean that when you're looking to buy, the prices are always high ... and if you look at what people are willing to pay, it's indeed usually cause THEY OWN that game and think it's worth that much thus won't sell it lower.

When it's time to sell a game, then all of a sudden, everybody thinks they can make 100$ more then they paid the game. That's how The Getaway, a 1200$ game is now selling for 1700$.  Hey that much better for the seller but YOU THE BUYER is the one driving those prices up.  When one person buys a GNR at 4600$, all the GNR owners now value their game at 4600$ !!   YOU TRY TO SELL IT AT THAT PRICE... WHEN YOU GET THE MONEY, only then can you actually say that.

Restoration? in my experience, don't count on somebody to pay more because of it.  you're doing it FOR YOURSELF and nobody else.

and btw, I sold my LOTR 3400$ to a really nice buyer, unseen and no pictures.

...and I bought a beat up BSD for 1200$ and a Roadshow for 1800$

Anything else anyone wants to know?

oh yeah ... Solar Fire is sold for 1800$

j'me trompe, ou, t'a pas l'aire de bonne humeur Phil? que est que j'ai fait?    
Est ce que c'est a moi que tu pointe tout ces details?
La Catacomb a été restauré pour que je puisse la vendre et j'ai seulement charger les produits. que la restoration m'a couté. Je l'ai payer 875$ ce que j'ai vendu il y une semaine.
J'ai encore "ma" Catacomb....celle que j'ai vendu il y a une semaine (je l'avait acheter 1 semaine auparavant) c'etait une autre que j'ai acheter pour prendre la voice chip pour la mettre sur la mienne.
j'ai presque toujours perdu de l'argent sur les game que vend....j'ai jamais perdu autant d'argent que depuis que je suis dans ce hobby.
La seule que j'ai un profit dessus c'est la Joust que J'ai vendu a Steph, si tu peux appeller ca un profit quand tu va toi meme la chercher en Californie.

You'll never get your money back for a restoration.  Ever.

It's like installing rotten dog displays into a machine.. it seems to never affect the price.  People for the most part don't care..

Quoted from machine.slave

You'll never get your money back for a restoration.  Ever.

It's like installing rotten dog displays into a machine.. it seems to never affect the price.  People for the most part don't care..

I disagree

I've broken even or made money on almost all the restores on machines I've done.  

Quoted from Vengeance

I disagree

I've broken even or made money on almost all the restores on machines I've done.  

Not if you count your time.....