Hey everyone,

Not having a fun time.  Here's the scoop.

- Was in town, got a call from my eldest daughter "Dad, the basement is flooded"
- Got home, it appears to be the hot water tank. Thankfully, the damage is localized to the furnace room.
- We're renting so we called the "hot water tank" company up (let's keep their name out of it for now)
- They sent a guy over. He checks out the tank "yeah, it's broken, you'll need to have it changed".
- I tell him "but it's a new house and we've only had the tank for 7 years!"  "hard water, Embrun's known for that"

So far, so good, I've heard the same too, which is why we had a water softner. Good news, we're switching to Ottawa water so this won't be a problem again.  Ok, so what's the problem?

- I mentioned we're renting the tank
- The lad mentions "we'll have to get the rental approved, because of the minimal years, it's something they need to do. Should be no problem
- He continued "also, your hot air vent (or something like that) isn't to code, it changed a few years ago and that's not something we're responsible for, so that will be about $200 (up to 10 feet, longer is more). There will also be fittings that you are responsible for.

There were a few other issues but anyway, this might cost me $300-$400 which I find completely weird and possibly unacceptable. Again, I'm RENTING the SOB!!!  Shouldn't they be responsible for installing the sucker?  It's not my fault if the existing install on THEIR own tank isn't up to code!!!  Again, we're ASSUMING this is because of the hard water. I don't see neighbours having this issue and they're all on the same system, this is a new project.

Anyway, opinions are appreciated, time is of the essence as I'll have to deal with this tomorrow.

Son of a...

Rob

Bullshit, their hardware and their installation, it's THEIR responsibility. Just tell them you'll take your business to the "other guy" if you're going to be put on the hook for something THEY own, and they will dance for you.

I had a similar problem with a water heater in an apartment I lived in, not only did they not have to talk to my landlord but neither of us paid anything for the repairs. If their install isn't to code, it's their responsibility to fix it.

Another friend of mine told me earlier the same thing, said "tell them you'll switch to the new "hot water on demand" units.  Whatever the case, thanks to your comments and my buddies, I'm feeling better about fighting this.

Thanks again,

Rob

One word, electric...

Depending on the size of your family, it may be a fine option. If the one you are replacing is power vented, they are about the same to run, if it was a conventional vent, the electric is slightly more to run.

If you have a couple of kids, yadda yadda, get a lager tank, as electric don't recover as quickly as gas.

On the bright side, an electric tank will never risk your life with CO2 emissions...

All that being said, I do have a gas unit, but it is conventionally vented, so no electric motor on the top.

Warrantees rarely are as good as they look on paper. Too many variables and loop holes for one to consider in many cases. Take car warrantees for example, in many cases they cover only specific components and labour can be beyond that coverage.

As to the changes it probably was to code when it was installed. Many installations are fine as an "existing condition" and can be left to the old code if you don't touch the thing. As soon as you make a change you are required to bring it up to the current code. If this is the case you probably can't get on them for installing it incorrectly initially.

As to the code I often wonder who all these changes to the code serve in the end. I am sure it's done in the public's interest, but sometimes when I see what the proposed changes are I wonder if it is a make work project for some CSA or building standards engineer; especially when the installation in this case is only 7 years old. It isn't like we are dealing with knob and tube wiring here. If it was an outright hazard to begin with, no conscionable person could just say "Oh we will rectify this issue only on new installations". If it was that bad wouldn't it need to be rectified straight away?

For the price you're being quoted, you should be able to pick up your own 40 gal heater.  By your description, I assume it's chimney vented (and that's much cheaper than a power vented unit).

If you complain enough and threaten to buy your own, they will likely replace the unit at a far better price than they have quoted.

Hard water, and other minerals that affect the life span of appliances are no secret, and they are fully aware of water quality in your area, and everyone else's for that matter.  They would prefer to keep your business.

A tankless heater, or demand heater is certainly an option.  Just be advised they don't work the same for everyone.  If you use a lot of volume, it may not be able to keep up with your needs.  For some homes with smaller families they often work just fine.  Stay away from the Bosch units sold primarily by Home Depot.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for all the good advice.  I'll let you know how it turns out.

I have heard about the change in venting code affecting replacement installations (I think it has to do with the pipe and glue failing, but I could be incorrect).  I would suggest bargaining as hard as possible for the rental place to put in the required venting, it's their unit, they should prepare the place for its use.  What if it were a new customer switching from oil to rental gas heater?  The tankless gas water heaters (on demand) also require power venting.  WIth on demand heaters, you may need more than one depending on the size of the house and the amount of people and hot water needs.

Well, I don't think I'll be getting away scott free, maybe a $150 bill as opposed to the worse case scenario.  The lady I spoke to wasn't budging on it, mentioning part of the problem is the sub-contracting of the work and according to her, the piping isn't owned by them, it's our property. For example, if at some point we switch to something else and they come and take away the hot water heater, they don't take the tubing out, that's ours. The good news is, they can come this afternoon to take care of it.

Anyway, another friend called me up with his story. He was without hot water for about 2 weeks.  TWO WEEKS.  Things didn't go well and he ended up buying one himself but I'm thinking if I end up paying about $150 and it's taken care of today, I think I'll take my loss and just go with it.  I could get a second quote and have someone else "plug it in" but then there's the timing of getting everything done at the same time and all of a sudden, $150 sounds cheap!

Try and find the identical unit at home depot and replace it yourself.
A straight replacement is quite easy.
No more rental costs.
No code issues.

That's good advice, unfortunately I'm low on available cash so I have to stick to rental right now.  I'll be considering that solution in the near future.

To all, thanks for the advice. I ended up having to pay $152 tax included. It's possible I could have fought it further but the thought of not having hot water for me and the 3 ladies for more than 1 day, well all of a sudden that $150 didn't look so bad.   To their credit, the vendor reps did a great job, were very polite, explained everything and although I probably should not have had to pay it, this new estimate was fair.

I had the issue with Union gas- they replaced the tank, and the power hood, and the vent to the outside for 0.00.  

I am currently with a hot water on demand.. and it *NEVER* runs out.. I have 7 kids (6 at home) and its great - for single use... if I decide to have someone in the shower, and do laundry, and do dishwasher.. then ya, the little unit (and it is listed as a single unit) can't keep up, so everyone gets ;some" hot water.. but not enough.  the only thing that notices is the shower.. but.. tankless kicks a**.  Just make sure to size the proper one.

as for why they charged.. no clue.. but $152 isnt bad...  A drop in replacement still wouldn't solve the issue of not being up to code.  Codes change for a reason.  THe powerhood was added to get rid of CO2 and CO gasses so they didn't linger..

Quoted from Subpacket

I had the issue with Union gas- they replaced the tank, and the power hood, and the vent to the outside for 0.00.  

I am currently with a hot water on demand.. and it *NEVER* runs out..

Are you running a natural gas or electric version of hot water on demand? Why i ask, is that the electric versions appear to require insane amounts of current (like 80-150amps).. my panel is already maxed out. makes it harder to contemplate replacing the tank at the moment.