Monster markets to people who don't know what they are buying. Two things they work on A. Fatter is better and B. It says "Monster"on it.

For some audio analogue signal applications yes there may be some truth to A. Digital on the other hand you either have a 1 or a 0 at the other end. If all but speaker connections go digital as they are, people will soon figure out where to invest in their cables and where not to. mess we run cheap a** Cat 5 all over the place to transmit digital information with very little loss.

http://www.infinitecables.com/   does make and sell Canadian cables.   They also sell/distribute cables from other countries.   I try to give them my cable-dollars before other retailers since its so hard to find anything made in canada these days.

HP5P is on the money. I'm assuming johnny_eh just isn't experienced enough yet, and is IMHbutexperiencedO basically, wrong (no offence intended we were all there once), and is regurgitating something he read somewhere at some time....   (That wasn't fair to say - I re-read it and it doesn't come off sounding like I intended - johnny_eh makes a good arguement, it just doesn't gel with my old fashioned analogue experience. Sorry Jon. WEB)

But then again you'd also be pretty stupid to spend $30k on audio cables because while ther eis a world of difference between $10 cables and $100 cables, there is very little between $100 cables and $1000 because you have reached a theoretical limit.

When you are able to purchase and audition true audiophile quality equipment and cables (that have been conditioned - did you know that you have to burn in cables for many hours to align their electrons in one direction only before they start to sound "sweet").  I was in audio/video production and editing for years, had a system based on carver amps, and have a 300B 15 watt tube amp (7.5 amps) with Kilpshorn speakers that can blow most modern 100amp ss amps right out of the water when it comes to voice ranges, faithful jazz reproduction and spatial sound quality.  

Do you isolate, filter and regulate your line voltage?  Most people don't know that shakey AC and line interference make an impact on amplifier performance.  Do you check if your speakers are in or out of phase (most people don't).

Most guys don't even realize that there is MORE information recorded in analogue vinyl than in most CDs (which are "sampled" - which means that audio is missing).  You have to play high quality digital recordings (or analogue albums) on a high end DAC (like a Pioneer Laser Disc transport - the poor man's high end DAC) or analogue amplifiers to truely understand the difference between "live" and "memorex".  Some people just don't have the ear for it, or they've already listened to enough music with headphones that they are going deaf.  Monster Cables are crap, but don't believe what they tell you about there not being a difference in the high end stuff, there is.  I use a high silver content wire for my speakers, and when auditioning them (hihg end audio places let you take home things for weeks to try before you buy - when I was learning I was told to condition the system first by leaving the steroe on for a few days), I used my own reference recordings, on my own system and you can tell the difference. (Like all true tests you only change one component (variable) at a time to test.) I made my own cables from quality and properly shielded and conditioned wire and you can tell the difference.

You CANNOT test any audio equipment in a store, it's nearly impossible since all the pieces are different, the acoustics are different, the recordindgs aren't necessarily your own.  You have to audition equipment in its final listening spot.  Most people don't also get that the difference can also be felt as "audio fatigue" that feeling that you have to turn off music because it is irritating.  Often its the audio quality and the quality of the recording or the quality of the playback equipment (including cables) that is causing that fatigue.

I once participated in a blind test at Applause Fine Audio and Art on Queen St. in Toronto (Robert Doughty).   I was a Ryerson student and didn't really have a lot of money to spend, but I like Jazz and have a good ear for music (I played the sax and woodwinds).  He was trying to demonstrate the difference between a low, mid, and high range amplifier (and these were already all in the "high" end - even though their prices weren't "out of this world").  I was seated with my back to the audio equipment, in a professional but large listening room. I came away stunned at the difference good equipment made.  And once he tricked me, using a vinyl recording instead of the reference high end CD quality, telling me he had switched cables, and I thought I was at a live concert.  Did I buy anythign form him?  No, I couldn't afford it.  But I did seek out the best that I could buy.

Hell, on the back of my old Yahama 1070 (which was their flagship digital receiver in its day) they actually used "U-bars" to connect the pre-amp and amp (which is a straight short unshielded piece of thick wire).  Replace that U-bar with the cheapest thinnest RCA interconnects you can find and WOW there was a world of difference.  Replace the RCA connects with short ruby hyperlitz interconnects with gold pro jacks and some audio gold lubricant (which helps bond the metals and eliminates the build-up of corrosion - just like on pinball connectors) and DOUBLE WOW - the stage comes alive even with stereo recordings and you can actually "place" all of the individual instruments and singers with your eyes closed.  If you've never experienced this with "only" stereo equipment, then you haven't lived yet.  

In any case I don't need to justify my personal experience because I haven't spent a whack on audiophile equipment.  I either built it myself or scrounged it together, and believe me, it does make a big, big difference.  I just want people to understand that lamp cord (which oxidizes quite easily) does not make the best speaker cable, and is not "as good" as higher end shielded cabling.  No how, no way.

A good read here: http://www.audioquest.com/pdfs/aq_cable_theory.pdf

I have to laugh when people tell me that we can only "hear" frequencies between 20 - 20,000Hz when in fact harmonics above and below our "range of hearing" have a significant impact on our mood and enjoyment of music and audio in general (which is another reason that analgue equipment usually blows common digital out of the water).

Sorry about the "rant" I'll go back to my pinball nook now.  I hope no one takes offence, this was all meant in good fun and in the tradition of a good "us" vs "them" diatribe.

And cooke....don't say a thing!  

Quoted from necro_nemesis

mess we run cheap a** Cat 5 all over the place to transmit digital information with very little loss.

  

Actually because of the nature of twisted pairing, you can use Cat5 cable to make pretty good analogue speaker wiring with little modification.

P.S. I don't doubt people can't tell the difference between "bad" digital audio on one wire and on another.  That makes perfect scientific sense because you can't hear what's not there.

I throw this out there for fun: Blind Test: http://tech.yahoo.com/blog/null/65929 / http://online.wsj.com/public/a......html  and
http://www.avreview.co.uk/news/article/mps/uan/1863  (Agreed these aren't exactly "scientific" double-blind tests.)

What does it prove?  Statistically 39% - 64% of people can't tell the difference between good and bad audio (taking into account that there was a 50 / 50 chance for a right guess without actually perceiving the difference), I jest - I mean tell the difference between changes in quality of audio, but audiophiles noticed the difference right away.  Imagine the test with Cardas (I auditioned Cardas, and was a Cardas "wannabe" but alas I could not afford, and was satisfied with the warmer sound of my AudioQuest interconnects).  

Edit: I think we should also conclude that differences in cable affect the resulting audio quality, but that doesn't necessarily make them "better" it makes them different, since "better" in audio terms is completely subjective.

I use shielded Silversonic for speaker wire. (That's on the Tube amp System).  For day to day fronts and centre I built my own speaker cables from Radio Shack High Performance S-video cables and good quality connectors.  Makes a world of difference on the cheap.

Sorry I've flogged this dead horse enough.  But I does like my music!

Sounds like you have the audiophile bug also, Wayne. I scaled back my system because the wife wanted a Home Theatre room. However I still have my Audio Research SP-10 all tube pre-amp/Krell amplifier with Wilson Watt/Puppy speakers. Still sounds sweet after more than 15 years that I have owned it. Quality equipment is quality equipment.

You will find it impossible to explain to most people that vinyl is better than CD's, but it is so much the truth. And tubes sound better than transistors. Somedays I miss sitting in my dimly lit room and listening to music, so now I just go and play pinball.  

this is getting way too technical, why don't we look at it this way;  if you're buying the equipment from a place like Futurshop or Best Buy, then pro A/V cables should be the last thing on your mind, and most definitely wouldn't be found at a place like that anyway... so for them to trick people into buying Monster cables is just as bad as their $400 warranties.  I appreciate you audio guys, I really do.. in fact, I admire it.  But you have to admit, for 99% of the rest of the population, a cheap $20 cable will do the job just fine!  There's really no need for a HDMI cable to cost 1/10 the price of the TV

Actually, even for the most basic system, it is worthwhile upgrading to shielded interconnects and lampcord speaker cables to shielded cables.  You don't have to go overboard and spend an arm and a leg, but just about anything will work better than the thin cheap rca hook-ups and regular speaker wire.  Even a $20 cable is a significant upgrade from stock in most cases.

That being said I'd change the interconnect cables before the speaker wire (or move to a thicker gauge lampcord) if I wanted to make the biggest immediate audio improvement.  

Also, cut off the ends of the lampcord speakerwire every once in a while (like year), as the copper corrodes (and it even creeps up inside the insulation) and expose some new wire for the speaker/amp connections.  Take those RCA plugs and carefully clean both the plug and connector with some solvent to degrease them once in a while (like every 2 years), and make sure they clamp on tight.  A good connection is as important here as it is in MPU connectors.  As for video and digital cabling I don't know much.

Anybody in the montreal area should make a point to check out the hi fi expo.

http://www.fsiexpo.com/epub/index.html

there's a world of difference if you open up your mind and ears..

i get depressed after the show because even if i win the lottery and could afford to spend 20K per component in the stereo, i can't think of any albums worth that chunk of change ($100K)  to reproduce accurately. but it would absolutely be worth every penny


and to keep this on track,  if you spend a few dollars improving the AC line conditioning in your house and spend maybe $100 on decent power cables, that is 90% of the improvement, the remaining 20% improvement, (unless you are mastering or mixing albums professionally), isn't worth spending thousands on.

for digital cables, it's an even simpler decision

http://www.radio-canada.ca/emissions/la_facture/2008-2009/Reportage.asp?idDoc=70016

Websherpa,
Letting a cable 'warmup'? That is total ridiculousness, if you've ever taken a physics or electronics class in your life you'd know that to be total bonkers. I find all your audiophile claims to be highly suspect. I'd love to be corrected though, show me some evidence. A scientific study published in a peer reviewed journal would suffice. Try Google Scholar.

Sampling does NOT lose information, if done at a high enough sampling rate. According to Nyquist's theorem, to PERFECTLY reproduce a signal of maximum 20khz, you need to sample at 40khz (sample rate = 2 x frequency). Considering that NO HUMAN can hear above 20khz, a the typical sample rate of more than 44khz or 48khz should more than suffice. On top of that, as you get older, your ability to hear high frequencies reduces, so I can probably hear higher frequencies than most of the people in this thread.

You can lose information with the number of bits used to store each sample though. I admit that the audio CD's usage of 16 bits leaves room for improvement, but not much. That's why the music industry tried releasing two competing HD Audio formats that had more bits per sample, that also added more than two channels of sound. How many bits per sample is enough? Some debate 20, some 24, but to me it's splitting hairs, and getting better sound equipment won't help.
While records encode their sound using analogue methods (as opposed to digital like a CD), they have their own downsides. Analogue formats are more prone to noise, crackles, and wear over time. A CD will sound exactly the same after 10 years of usage, records can be worn down though. In my opinion, if you like to actually listen to your music, more than once, records are not optimal. You're better off with a lossless digital copy of your music, encoded with something like FLAC or Apple Lossless. But if those files are created from a CD, it won't sound any better.

Feel free to waste your money on extremely diminished (or sometimes non-existent) returns on audio playback, I'd rather spend my money on pinball. Telling me that it sounds better, despite the fact that it's highly implausible that it can even sound different, is not very convincing. I remain skeptical. Even a personal demonstration wouldn't convince me due to everything earlier in the thread. The placebo effect isn't strictly limited to medicine. It can apply to anything subjective such as 'how good does this sound?'.

Oh, and Wayne, don't take my skepticism personally, it's what I do. I still like ya

Quoted from jonny_eh

Even a personal demonstration wouldn't convince me due to everything earlier in the thread.

Then continue to play pinball.

I am not trying to convince you of anything or telling you to buy anything. My comments are based on a lot more than a 2 minute demonstration and frankly there was a lot of things that i was very skeptical about. I am an Electrical Engineer, and alot of things made no theoretical sense to me. But there is theory and then reality and I speak from experience and what you wish to choose or accept, is totally up to you.