Sigh ... I guess we are going to see rants like this more and more often.

Tonight drove by the gas station $1.438  

Already its costing +40 to fill up an Accent tank.  I am not looking forward to the summer rise in gas prices

if you have a vehicule with a 100 litre tank, there isn't as much surprise or mystery left in what it costs to fill 'er up

I'm shopping for a new car...

it's now between the civic and the amazingly exicting ... corolla  

Quoted from takochef

if you have a vehicule with a 100 litre tank, there isn't as much surprise or mystery left in what it costs to fill 'er up

Having a 95 liters tank give me just a bit of mystery !!!!

Cost me 140$ in gas to bring back games from Jvegas to my home with a pick-up...  we can't really always buy locally in this hobby so it will become harder to do buy/sell/trade

A few years ago, my wife wanted us to get a tent trailer.

..." thankfully" we never did.

(...imagine the cost to haul that round !  )

Interestingly, everyone and their dog is getting rid of theirs now
for exactly the same reason...  

I've even started to carpool to work to reduce fuel usage...

Welcome to the new era of [much] higher gas prices...

...sigh....

Steph

I'm shopping for a new car too. It's a toss up between a Raleigh and a Schwinn:






Of course, the reality is that people will still continue to drive their Dummers and their F350's. High gas prices or not, North American consumerism will never change.

I am super fortunate that my work truck also comes with a corporate gas card, and my work van lives at my home,
so i don't need 2 vehicles, i have my work van, and my wife has a rav 4 which doubles as a pinball hauler and a DJ equipment hauler,
it's not too bad on gas, but it still sucks, but only having one car makes life so much nicer

Eric

It is what the Earth has come to.  We could only do so much to reduce our gas costs and to help the prices come down a little bit.  But with nations like China, even if North America consumes less, China and others will buy more gas if it is available....

But honestly, if you don't have a V6 or V8 car, don't complain.  What I don't understand is people with 4 cylinder cars who think that they spend way to much on gas.  And yesteday, I saw an ad for a 4 cyclinder Hybrid Civic.  Wow, that is going to bring the weekly gas bill from $40/week to $35/week perhaps.  Big deal.

I do understand your complaint if you have a 6 cylinder minivan (with a few kids in the back for some of you) which guzzles much more.
And I understand it even more if you drive a truck on the road for a living (but then again, the expenses at the end of the year income tax will take care of the hikes in prices anyway).

If you drive standard, keep your revs down a little bit to save a few dollars a week.  Don't over accelerate when you are approaching stops or red lights anyway.

If you drive a V8 or big SUV, though luck (I am in that category).  You can't necessary sell what you own (lose money) and buy a new V4 Toyota Matrix, when you are used to acceleration/power/SUV comfort in the winter, etc.

Since more and more people won't go do extra driving around nor vacations (plane included), I guess Pinball prices will actually go up since more will want to buy them to stay home and play!  That means that local maaca machines might rise also as no one wants to spend gas money going to USA to buy a Pin....

Quoted from Steph

A few years ago, my wife wanted us to get a tent trailer.

..." thankfully" we never did.

(...imagine the cost to haul that round !  )

Interestingly, everyone and their dog is getting rid of theirs now
for exactly the same reason...  
Steph

That and boats..  Amazing the quantity of boats for sale this year!!!!  

Mike

  That means that local maaca machines might rise also as no one wants to spend gas money going to USA to buy a Pin.... [/quote]


The last few machines I brought up with NAVL had HUGE fuel surcharges on them...one thing that helps defray that though is that most machines are now selling for considerably cheaper prices than a year ago, so gas costs are pretty much a wash when you take that into consideration. Its still not a money making proposition though if you intend to resell ( TRUST ME ITS NOT!!). Once my current machines are finally sold I'm out for good, so maybe prices will start to rise locally unless someone picks up where I left off ( I don't recommend it!!).

Quoted from 265

that most machines are now selling for considerably cheaper prices than a year ago,

Everyone better understand that it's only going to get worst ( or better, depending which side of the fence you're looking at it   )

I fill my minivan (V6 with a 75L tank) and my Volvo (I5 with a 70L tank) every week. Costs me on average 150$ a week. But then again, other than whining about it, WTF can we do about it?

- ALL transportation is petroleum-powered. NO alternatives.

- electric cars are not legal yet on our roads

- government doesn't give a mess... they are raking in the bucks with gas taxes


The sad fact is that this is only the beginning. Oil production peaked in 2004, so it is now on a downslope. Demand is still going way up. Keep in mind that if it wasn't for our strong dollar, we would be paying 2.25$ a liter. Last time gas prices hit the all time high of 1.47$ the barrel was at 80$. It is now hovering at around 130$. What sucks is that humankind always ends up coming up with solutions when it is knee-deep in mess. The oil-producing nations know that their oil will run out, so like any company that knows that their cash-cow is drying up, they will up the prices big-time in order to milk it for all it is worth. In the meantime, automakers are sitting on their asses. They will release electric cars ONLY when required. Case in point, GM. Their image was SO tarnished lately by being identified as one of the major players that eliminated electric cars... enter the Volt project. Nice PR job...

My opinion is that if you drive a large vehicle to go to work, I suggest that you buy a small econo-box and keep the large vehicle for weekend projects. Save yourself a few bucks, because it's going to get worse. I predict we will pay in excess of 2.25$/L by June 2009.

Next car disel all the way!

Sorry to burst your bubble on Diesel. Here is the problem.

The issue is that to create Diesel fuel requires specialized "cracking" plants which are very expensive to build and there is already a shortage in the world (hence the increase in Diesel Fuel prices in recent years). It is not economically feasible to convert existing plants to Diesel cracking plants. Hence the dilema. As more people assume Diesel is the way to go ... the greater shortage ... prices increase. This is actually a worse case scenario as most of our shipping uses diesel which will increase prices more.

Also Diesel is a very dirty fuel source (newer engines are cleaner but still).

So please don't everybody rush out and go Diesel! Hopefully the next decade will bring cleaner/cheaper vehicles (Hydrogen-cell, electric, hybrid).

With the rise of the Chineese and Indian economies (potential for another 1 billion drivers) the general rule is that for every new driver they put on the road Western economies have to take one off the road to keep fuel prices at the status-quo. That is not going to happen in the short term. We live in interesting times.

I am going to buy windmills so I can power my pins once the rotating blackouts start.  

Quoted from Vengeance

Next car disel all the way!

Have you seen the price of Diesel latelty ?

No savings there my friend...


Steph

Quoted from Steph

Have you seen the price of Diesel latelty ?
No savings there my friend...

Steph

Isnt the saving from the fact that you can run twice the kms with a comparable amount of diesel ?

Quoted from Steph

Have you seen the price of Diesel latelty ?

No savings there my friend...


Steph

There is when you can drive 2x the distance for the same cost as gas.

Yeah but there is Bio diesel I have a few friends that do that.
Kind of funny to see them tho they have about 3 or 4 restaurents or chip trucks they go see and get there oil.
But hey whatever works.
One of those friends he actually lives in the country and is starting to make his own ethanol.
Trying to convince him that could be dangerous because if he mess it up could blow up.

Yea, it's about 10 cents more then gas, but you go a hell of allot further on Disel then you do on Gas.  So while the price per fill may be the same if not more expensive, while I fill my tank every week on gas, I'd mabye be filling disel tank once every 3 to 4 weeks on disel.  Sounds good to me.  

Do you need oil with diesel engines? My buddy has a diesel engine in his sail boat and he said it doesn't require oil as diesel acts as a lubricant. If that is correct, then there is another savings.

Like others have said, you go much further with diesel than gas. Also, diesel is safer than gas. It doesn't burn without pressure, so no worries of a diesel tank exploding in an accident.

Duane

The other thing to take into consideration with deisel is the maintenance costs.  Usually the maintenance on such an engine requires more attention than petrol, so what you save on petrol you could be spending on added maintenance....

D

yea but disel engines are built like tanks, my Aunt has a old disel car built back like 12 years ago and it still runs, taught me to drive stick on it

Diesel engines do cost a little bit more up front when buying the car I believe (also to be considered).  And yes, my mechanic tells me that the Diesel volkswagon Golfs for example, have so many issues.  
You want a great engine, buy a GM (or GMC) built car.  They last 300k KM without ever repairing them.  

To each his own theory of what is better in terms of choices out there.  For now, regular gasoline car (hopefully just a 4 cylinder) is the best choice....

Quoted from TwilightZone

Do you need oil with diesel engines? My buddy has a diesel engine in his sail boat and he said it doesn't require oil as diesel acts as a lubricant. If that is correct, then there is another savings.

Like others have said, you go much further with diesel than gas. Also, diesel is safer than gas. It doesn't burn without pressure, so no worries of a diesel tank exploding in an accident.

Duane

... They need even more oil than a gas engine!!! Oil is used as a lubricant, as well as a cooling agent. In the case of your buddy's boat, it is probably a very small engine which probably produces very little horsepower. But a diesel engine, like in a Volks, has an oversized oil pan due to the oil getting dirtier faster (diesel consumption produces some acids, which the oil must neutralize) than a gas engine.

Another myth... diesel is NOT safer than gas. Yes, it produces less vapor than conventional gas, but burns "dirtier". Also, it doesn't need pressure to burn... it reaches an explosion point WITH pressure which gets it hot. Gas needs a spark to blow. The compression rate for a diesel engine can vary from 15 to up to easily 24-to-1, compared to about an average of 10-to-1 for a gas engine. At that compression rate, the compressed air gets very hot and if diesel fuel is atomized and injected in that air, it blows. Gas wouldn't.


...Take it from someone who knows.  

And yes, diesel engines go further, but here's a good info for you... We made a comparison at work for different vehicles (yes, Cat machines can come with gas engines...), in this case we chose a Jetta TDI, and if you calculate a compound rise in gas prices, but factor in the added cost of purchase for a diesel (average of 3000$ more... 7000$ for a Dodge Ram with a diesel!!!), it takes exactly 9.7 years before you cross the mark where a diesel vehicle is actually cheaper to run than a gas vehicle. So unless you plan on driving your car for 12-15 years, it is still not worth it.


Sparky

(aka Ian L. Fitzpatrick, technical communicator/mechanical engineer, Hewitt Equipment, a Caterpillar machinery dealership...     )

Quoted from MrMikeman

That and boats..  Amazing the quantity of boats for sale this year!!!!  

Mike

Six of my buddies have boats at the marina about 20 mins from me. They have all become floating cottages. I rarely see them leaving the marina anymore.

One guy just picked up a 32' fiberglass Pacemaker with twin gas 318 engines, running and complete for $5K. Insane.

Anyone want to sell me a 46' Carver twin diesel for cheap? It won't be going anywhere but I would like a nice sun deck.

Quoted from Sparky

(aka Ian L. Fitzpatrick, technical communicator/mechanical engineer, Hewitt Equipment, a Caterpillar machinery dealership...     )

Duane

Yes I know, it will cost me at least $120 to go to Medvet next Saturday, with my '75 pontiac convertible, 400 c.i. engine. But it's worth EVERY PENNY!

Quoted from Sparky

And yes, diesel engines go further, but here's a good info for you... We made a comparison at work for different vehicles (yes, Cat machines can come with gas engines...), in this case we chose a Jetta TDI, and if you calculate a compound rise in gas prices, but factor in the added cost of purchase for a diesel (average of 3000$ more... 7000$ for a Dodge Ram with a diesel!!!), it takes exactly 9.7 years before you cross the mark where a diesel vehicle is actually cheaper to run than a gas vehicle. So unless you plan on driving your car for 12-15 years, it is still not worth it.


Sparky

(aka Ian L. Fitzpatrick, technical communicator/mechanical engineer, Hewitt Equipment, a Caterpillar machinery dealership...     )

Well said!  And this is why for the average 300-400 KM type car usage, it is also not worth buying a Hybrid yet.  Same reason, too many years to cover initial extra cost of Hybrid for the savings you get....

Just to add to the diesel VS gas debate, our entire service truck fleet is now running on gas engines. They used to buy F350s with the PowerStroke V8 diesels, but noticed that since they use the trucks only 4 years, fuel prices are near identical (or in most cases diesel costs more), the price of the diesel is 7000$ more and when they sold the truck later on, they didn't get that money back (in fact, they sold at the same price regardless of engine), they now order them with the V10 Tritons.

...and on a less technical side and certainly less ecological side, I tried one before they put the fiberglass box and service equipment on it... I floored it and made double skid marks over 50 feet. Love those dualies!!!  

Quoted from Sparky

they now order them with the V10 Tritons.

glug, glug, glug....

What's the mileage on those ..?   11 feet to the gallon ?

;p

Steph

Here is an article I wrote on for an other site.

It truly troubles me when I see a full size truck doing 150kmph(90mph). Only 2 things can come of this, one is you may have a nasty accident and the other is you will burn a LOT of fuel.

As far as fuel economy goes 4 cylinder Japanese car is usually the way to go. Don't go cheap on your 4 banger or you will regret it. The Rice burners are leaders in fuel economy and as such should be exploited.

Ask yourself if the car you are driving is what you need. Do you really need a large vehicle, could you make due with something smaller and more economic?

Here is a list of things to do in order to save fuel regardless of what you drive and in the process become a better driver.


1- Make sure you car is in order and clean. That means Air filter, fuel filter, oil changes, Tire pressure, Spark plugs and wires. There is more but these are the main ones.

2- Do not drive so fast. This means take off slower, and obey the speed limit. Most manual cars have a shift light to indicate when is the best time to shift, USE IT and keep the RPM's as low as possible. I can easily shift below 3000 RPM and still have a decent take off speed. Remember, you're not in a race.

3- Don't use your brakes so much. Often I notice people braking when they do not have to. Many times just letting go of the accelerator is enough, especially on the highway.

4- Coast whenever you can. If your driving and see a traffic light is red at a distance in front of you ease off the accelerator and coast to the traffic light. Often it will turn green before you get there and you won't even need to stop. This also has a bonus effect on the life of your brake pads.

5- If you can, take the back roads. I have noticed something in June of 2007 when I visited my brother. I took the highway there and drove at about 120kmph/75mph. On the way home I took the back roads or routes for which I could not really go more than 100kmph/62mph most of the time. Well I literally saw about 150km/90miles more on my trip meter on one tank full. The other option is not to go over the posted speed limit on the highway ( I know it's hard).

6- Upgrading certain parts of you car to get better fuel burn can also improve efficiency and performance. A performance ignition system may do this for you. Any of those off the shelf toys that say they increase efficiency usually don't (watch myth busters).

7- Tires, those uber performance tires that are wider than you aunt Edna's a** will definitely cost you more in fuel. They do provide more traction but also more drag. The thinner the tire is the less drag it has. Go with the tire size that the manufacturer put on the car in the first place. It was designed to use them anyway.

8- Don't do anything to change your cars aerodynamic shape. Almost anything you add to the car's exterior will increase the drag and weight therefore your fuel consumption will increase.

9- The estimated fuel economy on the window sticker of your new car gives you certain details as to how economical the car is supposed to be. What they don't tell you is that these ratings are based on a car doing 90kmph/55mph on the highway and 40kmph/25mph in the city (don't quote me on this one but I have read this on a few forums and sites). As for Hybrids, some savvy drivers can get just as good or even better economy than most hybrid cars, which is not to say Hybrids are bad.

10-DO NOT LEAVE YOU CAR IDLING! You car uses more gas when idling then you think so unless you have kids in the car during really cold weather then DON"T IDLE.

11-WALK! If you're just going to the store a few blocks away and you're in no hurry then why not walk there or even take a little bike ride? Besides, it's good for you.

12-Take the bus or train (electric if possible). Commuter trains are a great way to get from the suburbs to the city and most of them will take you right downtown. This is great if your going shopping with family or friends and you don't have to worry about feeding the Parking meter every 2 hours.

That's it! Common sense mostly.

By the way, when weather permits I take my bike to work.

Quoted from ethous

Yeah but there is Bio diesel I have a few friends that do that.
Kind of funny to see them tho they have about 3 or 4 restaurents or chip trucks they go see and get there oil.
But hey whatever works.
One of those friends he actually lives in the country and is starting to make his own ethanol.
Trying to convince him that could be dangerous because if he mess it up could blow up.

Seen some reports about bio fuel and a friend of mine says he does better economy with it but it has been proven to actually cost more environmentally speaking. In other words, costs less but pollutes more. Don't know for sure if these reports are true or not but it is something to think about.

Quoted from Sparky

Case in point, GM. Their image was SO tarnished lately by being identified as one of the major players that eliminated electric cars... enter the Volt project. Nice PR job...

IMO GM tarmished thier rep with that and crappy cars. Expecially lately. A few people at work have GMs and HATE them with a Passion. 4 bangers chugging as much gas at V8's and 2 year old cars that rattle like a bunch of bolts in a metal bucket on a paint mixing machine.

My Ford is a little better but it is still a crappy American car. I owned an old Sentra Classic from 1990 (boxy model) and it did over 500km per tankfull (40 liters I think) which I averaged out to around 150 km difference with my 2005 Focus.


Sorry for the rant but I have driven MANY cars having worked in the automotive area for prob around 10 years or so and have come to realize that the japanese cars have it hands down.

But dont ever let them break because f*** they cost allot.
If you dont have a civic or corrolla get ready to pay.
Ok mine is not Japanese but Korean and that bastard hurts when it breaks.
Hyundai Santa Fee not bad on gas for a 2.7 6 bang 80 litter tank Highway maybe almost 600km thats not bad city 400 tho

Quoted from ethous

But dont ever let them break because f*** they cost allot.
If you dont have a civic or corrolla get ready to pay.
Ok mine is not Japanese but Korean and that bastard hurts when it breaks.

When Hyundai opened up the bromont factory (about 20 years ago) and flooded the market with their finest cars, quebecers soon  learnt  why korean engineering was to be avoided at all costs.

Nissan & Honda radically different story

Quoted from ethous

But dont ever let them break because f*** they cost allot.
If you dont have a civic or corrolla get ready to pay.
Ok mine is not Japanese but Korean and that bastard hurts when it breaks.
Hyundai Santa Fee not bad on gas for a 2.7 6 bang 80 litter tank Highway maybe almost 600km thats not bad city 400 tho

Your argument is true and false. Yes indeed they cost a lot when they break but how often do they need fixing compared to american cars? Comparatively i found the cost of repairs to be almost the same after a fews years. Either you fix it many times that cost less or a few times that cost more. What has to be looked at is what breaks down and those are stats I do not have.

Things I have dealt with in some of my american cars are wiring breaking in door joints, stupid computers becoming unprogrammed and corrosion in wires that are supposed to be sealed. Things I have never even thought of with my Jap cars. Suspension, brakes and other things wear out on both of them alike but other things shouldn't even be a thought unless the car is over 10 years old and then some.

Unfortunatly due to cost I still went with an american car.

Welcome to the wonderful world of supply and demand!

I feel for those of you hit hard in the wallet from the high energy prices, but I think in the long run this is the only way that those of us in the developed world can become more efficient both in terms of technology and in behaviour.

Personally, I'm glad I went for a downtown condo instead of a suburban house. I have to fill up my gas tank every 1.5 months and my IS300 is a gas guzzler.

this one should be cheap ...  

Should I drive with my window open and save on AC, or closed and save on drag?

I tend to keep the window open if I'm driving ~40kph, and closed if I'm driving faster. Mostly for comfort, less for fuel consumption.

I watched a good episode of myth-busters and they proved (and several engineers agreed) that driving with the windows down actually burns more gas. The difference is not very significant. Best solution - drive with the windows up and sweat it out. The drag coefficient is ALWAYS the winner when it comes to this. A very small improvement in the drag coefiicient will always give better improvements in performance.

Ever wonder why motorcycles can not break 300 mph whereas race-cars and exoctic sports cars have no problem doing this.

All this being said, I go to pick up my Honda Pilot on Monday afternoon. Well at least I am trading in my Chev P/U 5.7L V8. My wife figures I will have a much more difficult time picking up pins this way.  

bought the civic LX...