Quoted from jonny_eh

Thanks. I wish I didn't have to bring her up, but when people make light of the severity of a disease, I feel like the best way to convince people that it can be deadly is to bring up a specific case. Was it in poor taste due to her age? There was a 24 year old woman that died a week earlier, I could mention her instead.

Consider what would happen if you opt out of the vaccine, then pass on the flu to someone who gets serious complications. I couldn't live with that on my head.

Quoted from JD3

there still is no guarantee that this will prevent or start it either way you gamble. but you gamble every day when you get out of bed and start the day, we never know what will get us and what wont just have to live make the best decisions you can. I have been in china at the time of the sars outbreak lived to tell the story, we used to hear about Clostridium difficileit (C. difficile) which came from untidy hospitals there was 14 cases last week alone in montreal area. my point is let people decide whats best for them and not let the media scare the crap out of you do some research the people on this board are great at it.  

note: my previous post the link to the pdf is the consumer leaflet for the product we are receiving.

Quoted Text

Flu Risks

Flu kills 36,000 people a year in the US, though some models suggest crude excess mortality of over 50,000. Usually, these are people with advanced age or who are already sick (either acutely or chronically). Given 300,000,000 people, that is about 1/8300. (Source)

This year, the swine flu, H1N1, is not just culling the weak and sick. A recent report in Journal of the American Medical Association has some alarming data from Canadian ICU's:

    Patients tended to be relatively healthy adolescents and young adults who developed a brief prodromal illness followed by rapidly progressive respiratory failure. Shock and multisystem organ failure were common. Hypoxemia was prolonged and severe, requiring on average 12 days of mechanical ventilation and frequent use of rescue therapies such as high-frequency oscillatory ventilation, prone positioning, neuromuscular blockade, and inhaled nitric oxide.

(White and Angus, Comment in JAMA) (Source)

That same paper also notes that 17% of ICU admissions for flu in Canada did not survive. That's about 1/7, so not much different from Russian roulette.

I'm not saying huge numbers end up in the ICU. But we have no way of knowing who ends up there, no way of knowing who dies there. It's like car crashes: the odds are small, but it could be you.


Flu Shot Risks

The big risk is something called GBS - Guillan Barre Syndrome. This is a disorder which most of the time leads to mild or moderate muscle weakness for days to weeks, ultimately leading to recovery. In about 3% of cases, it is fatal. Fatal cases usually result from people who neglect their symptoms and present far too late for treatment. Your odds of getting GBS from a flu shot are 1/1,000,000. (Source)

Your odds of death from a flu shot are, therefore, roughly, 1/33,000,000.

Mild risks include sore arm, local inflammation, the usual stuff. If you have a severe egg allergy, don't get the shot.


Summing Up

Odds of death from flu: 1/8300

Odds of death from vax: 1/33,000,000

Relative Risk of dying from flu versus dying from vax: 4000:1

If you catch flu because you denied yourself a flu shot, you have effectively multiplied your risk of death by about 4000.

Quoted from SquidVicious

It is a serious matter but I believe that the argument of whether to take the vaccine (as I will) or not is a logical one and doesn't require the added example (unfortuantely it reminds me of the MAD adverts that have to hammer home the drinking and driving message) tying emotion to the argument doesn't strengthen it (it does the opposite IMO) but that said I don't mean to minimize the threat of the flu or heinous act of DWI

Quoted from wbradley

To me, people that say "dont get the vaccine" are kinda like the people that refused to leave their homes during Katrina.

Yes, we are free to make our own decisions, but sometimes we just dont realize what's really best for us. Smarten up.

Quoted from gmaranda

Nice debate but I will take the vaccine, I have taken the vaccine every year since 1997 and I am only slightly mad!!!!

take care