Is VW really a POS?
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Is VW really a POS?  This thread currently has 1,155 views. Print
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TwilightZone
June 15, 2008, 9:58am Report to Moderator

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I'm going to reply to Doug and then shut up on this topic. In response to some of your specific points:

1. You mention you can get Euro cars in the same price point as comparable Japanese cars. What you are failing to consider is the maintenance costs. On my wife's side, a few folks own or have owned Audi's. Wonderful cars to drive and fairly reliable; however expensive maintenance bills. Even regular maintenance, at least for me, is crazy expensive. And I find the Subie had as nice a ride. Even my father-in-law (who is a bit of a car snob) commented the handling was remarkable and compared it favorably to Audi and Jaguar. In my book, that is high praise indeed.

2. You say the interior of Japanese cars degrades. My experience is different and I'll show you my 24 year old RX7 as proof. It is not the exception either. My old 626 GT held up fine. I've seen many old Rx7s and 240Zs all with nice interiors. I will gladly admit the metal is inferior and must be cared for, but the interiors do last. They, of course, aren't as luxurious as cars that cost tens of thousands of dollars more, but they are functional and attractive none the less.

3. Regarding Subies, you say they squeak and rattle. Your experience is completely contrary to mine. I owned a 1999 Subaru Impreza Sport and it was a wonderful handling car and completely quiet inside. You mention the price tag is high on Scooby's. Only if you buy new   I bought my car in 2001. It was 2 years old and had a whooping 16,000 km on it. I saved about $10K off the original price includng taxes. Cann't do that with a Euro. And, for whatever reason, the depreciation seemed to be all at the front end. When I sold the car a few years later (due to growing family) I was amazed at the resale value. It really didn't cost a lot to own the car. And when I owned it, it needed nothing. Absolutely nothing; other than standard maintence. I loved the car and will get another someday.

Lastly, you mention the fit and finish of European cars. The BEST interior finish is Jaguar. No one can argue that point. They are wonderful cars to sit in. Leather covers everything even the dash and the wood trim beatifully accents the fine craftsmanship. No German car comes close to Jaguar in terms of the interior and it does hold up as well.

Oh, btw, keep an eye out for a Corvette pinball, I hear Necro wants one
Duane
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newf112
June 15, 2008, 10:10am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TwilightZone

Lastly, you mention the fit and finish of European cars. The BEST interior finish is Jaguar. No one can argue that point. They are wonderful cars to sit in. Leather covers everything even the dash and the wood trim beatifully accents the fine craftsmanship. No German car comes close to Jaguar in terms of the interior and it does hold up as well.

Duane


When you say Jaguar... do you mean the British built Jag, the more recent FORD Jag, or the most recent Indian (Tata) Jag?




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newf112
June 15, 2008, 10:30am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Menace
I was wondering when Sparky was going to chime in...   (I knew about the VW background from our convo during one of my visits)

I will be the 1st to admit that VAG's products are far from perfect.  But I will also admit that NO car mfg is.  They all have their own strengths and weaknesses, and each model from each mfg has their own quality issues.  I just had to replace a transmission ECU in the wife's '02 Toyota last week, which is a well documented failure all over the world, which Toyota knows full well about given the TSB they released 2 years ago to help their tech's diagnose the issue. (while leaving the consumer on the hook for the cost of repair)

Knock on wood, my '00 GTI has only had a MAF sensor fail due to a Bosche design issue.

In this day and age it all comes down to finding a vehicle that you can live with.  That includes cost to own, cost to repair and yes... squeaks and rattles   (oh, and cost to fuel!)

Back on topic... you find that 'vette pin yet?


Are you sure your GTI was built in Germany?  My '98 was built in Mexico as are most North American sold VWs these days.

Fact is there is far to much globalization in the market today to distinguish NA vs Japanese vs European.

Most Hondas and Toyotas sold in NA are engineered and manufactured here.  VWs (and soon to be Hondas) are built in Mexico.  Ford's newer vehicles like the Fusion and Edge are designed in Germany but still manufactured here.  One of the most "Japanese" cars on the market today is still Mazda... a Ford line.  Subaru is one of the only true Japanese imports on NA roads.... not counting luxury lines like Lexus.

Toyota sells cars with Pontiac parts and vice-versa (Matrix/Vibe, Echo/Wave).

The old stereotypes still linger but are really not accurate anymore.
A couple of examples:
1.  NA cars burn more gas... the Ford Focus has been the most efficient gas powered car in NA the last 2 model years.  Even outperformed the Honda Fit.
2.  Japanese cars are lighter...  a true "Japanese" car is Subaru and there is no way they are lighter than their NA counterparts.  In fact, with the AWD in all vehicles (you cannot buy a Subaru without it) it's heavier and less fuel efficient than most in it's class.

Globalization of the manufacturers over the last 15 years has completely changed the marketplace but stereotypes will always remain.



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silverball
June 15, 2008, 10:52am Report to Moderator

That's the last one, I promise!
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Take it from someone who works at a car assembly plant, Toyota is just living off reputation at this
point.  When there was 300 cars a shift being built, there was more time and attention to detail, switch
gears to pumping out 500+ a shift and something has to give.  Toyota bragged of great quality
and rightfully so at that time, but now I feel that simply isn't the case.  Compare the Corolla to many
other cars in it's price range and you get much more for your money if you buy a domestic.

Unfortunately the resale value isn't nearly as great with a domestics.

The lines are definitely more blurry these days, as it's hard to car a Corolla an import when it's built
in Canada and California.  Just as it's a stretch to refer to some of the cars built by the 'Not So Big 3'
in countries outside of the US, a domestic.




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joce
June 15, 2008, 12:58pm Report to Moderator

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necro_nemesis
June 15, 2008, 5:17pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from joce


Cali for a pin. Forget it. Fun in the sun fade and way too much shipping.

I suspect at the worst I would get one out of MI, OH or NY.



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Menace
June 15, 2008, 5:30pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from newf112


Are you sure your GTI was built in Germany?  My '98 was built in Mexico as are most North American sold VWs these days.


Yup, mine was one of the last to be built in the motherland...  (all German built ones VIN's start with WVW... which mine does)

All the new GTI's are not actually built in Mexico, but Brazil (along with the EOS I believe), the Beetle and Jetta's all come from Mexico.

Nabbed a 'vette yet Necro?

D

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websherpa
June 15, 2008, 7:20pm Report to Moderator

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Wat it Lamborghini that reverse engineered Ferrari or vice versa, I always forget.  


Wayne (webSherpa) "WEB"
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necro_nemesis
June 16, 2008, 3:01am Report to Moderator

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I give up.  

I renamed the thread and will start a new one.



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cooke
June 16, 2008, 5:48am Report to Moderator

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This conversation is silly. Everyone knows that whatever Glen likes is *the best*. There really is no point in holding a different opinion.  

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Menace
June 16, 2008, 8:34am Report to Moderator

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All cars (not just VW) are POS's.
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newf112
June 16, 2008, 8:38am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Menace
All cars (not just VW) are POS's.


I think that is the general theme.



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